'Collaborators' to be Axed from Voter List

[Skies]

Perhaps I understand your concern. IMO an Islamic government doesn't have to be bigotic and there might be a way to retain many modern values within an Islamic system, but the kind of blind loyalty to traditional Islamic rules and rulings that makes certain people follow an Islamic party is itself a potential cause/source of bigotism. However logical or valid these people are not going to give a damn to your individual understanding of Islam or an Islamic state. They would perhaps think it fitting that an Islamic ruler should and must impose a particular lifestyle on people (as opposed to 'Islam by example') despite the counterproductivity of such measures. Moreover it would be really frustrating if these people would be trying to solve all twenty first century problems simply by analyzing seventh century solutions to seventh century problems.

That is why [practically speaking] Islam has to be out of state affairs. Because different people are of different types, and religion is a matter of believe and practice. If some Islamic ruler wants Islam to be practiced more tightly than the citizens, it will create a problem. So if people practice Islam in individual level, not in national level, then some may practice tightly, some may practice loosely, but that will not impact the national life.

But an Islamic party is fine if it comes with people's mandate, and democratically, then practicing Islam in national level will not create national problem.

 

[animelive]

That can not be said until we can indoctrinate our children/people with something instead of religion which will teach them morality, honesty etc without being religious. May be possible for a large group of people if we can separate the morality, honesty and equity from religion and then teach those to people separately without making them religious.

That lies with the individual atheist families in BD. But looking at the current secular folks in BD, all we can expect is some more hippies and anti-religious extremists

 

[Skallagrim]

That can not be said until we can indoctrinate our children/people with something instead of religion which will teach them morality, honesty etc without being religious. May be possible for a large group of people if we can separate the morality, honesty and equity from religion and then teach those to people separately without making them religious.

Is it really possible?? I have my doubts. We have always had and seen religious societies but we've hardly ever, if any, had or seen atheistic societies. Believers have always outnumbered atheists. The atheist son or daughter of religious parents may be completely unaware of the religious values that (s)he acquired from them (or from the fairly religious society (s)he lives in) and feel that these values (honesty, modesty, family etc) are independent of religion. (S)he may tend to view the shortcomings of (her/) his religious parents and without much thought may attribute them, rightly or wrongly, to the teachings of the religion they adhere.

Now think about it- if we ignore religious values should rape be considered a graver offense than punching somebody in the nose? Would incest be considered a crime? Actually I was member of a forum majority of whose members were atheists. Someone once started a thread titled "What's wrong with incest?" or something along this line. No one raised the question of morality and a good number of posters said that if consensual it's okay. Assuming you are knowledgeable of the biological consequences of incest did you just notice what a dangerous conclusion people devoid of religious beliefs can reach?

 

[animelive]

Is it really possible?? I have my doubts. We have always had and seen religious societies but we've hardly ever, if any, had or seen atheistic societies. Believers have always outnumbered atheists. The atheist son or daughter of religious parents may be completely unaware of the religious values that (s)he acquired from them (or from the fairly religious society (s)he lives in) and feel that these values (honesty, modesty, family etc) are independent of religion. (S)he may tend to view the shortcomings of (her/) his religious parents and without much thought may attribute them, rightly or wrongly, to the teachings of the religion they adhere.

Now think about it- if we ignore religious values should rape be considered a graver offense than punching somebody in the nose? Would incest be considered a crime? Actually I was member of a forum majority of whose members were atheists. Someone once started a thread titled "What's wrong with incest?" or something along this line. No one raised the question of morality and a good number of posters said that if consensual it's okay. Assuming you are knowledgeable of the biological consequences of incest did you just notice what a dangerous conclusion people devoid of religious beliefs can reach?

Open minded societies and shits according to many members here, we should move like the western nation and the world and be more open minded. Lets throw away our morality too. some countrymen are filled with inferiority complex

 

[Zabaniyah]

Can you tell me in which age Islamic values were democratic or were compatible with democracy? Islam has established the most rigorous form of autocracy, all in the name of religion.

There isn't enough research on the matter of Islam being compatible with democracy.

Can religious values be compatible with a democracy? Yes.

The examples are plenty. Muslims only need to become more matured.

 

[Skies]

Is it really possible?? I have my doubts. We have always had and seen religious societies but we've hardly ever, if any, had or seen atheistic societies. Believers have always outnumbered atheists. The atheist son or daughter of religious parents may be completely unaware of the religious values that (s)he acquired from them (or from the fairly religious society (s)he lives in) and feel that these values (honesty, modesty, family etc) are independent of religion. (S)he may tend to view the shortcomings of (her/) his religious parents and without much thought may attribute them, rightly or wrongly, to the teachings of the religion they adhere.

Now think about it- if we ignore religious values should rape be considered a graver offense than punching somebody in the nose? Would incest be considered a crime? Actually I was member of a forum majority of whose members were atheists. Someone once started a thread titled "What's wrong with incest?" or something along this line. No one raised the question of morality and a good number of posters said that if consensual it's okay. Assuming you are knowledgeable of the biological consequences of incest did you just notice what a dangerous conclusion people devoid of religious beliefs can reach?

Yes, take the example of Japan, being an atheist society they are honest, moral etc.....and peaceful and successful....how do they know about honesty, morality without religions?


On the other hands, yes the concept of honesty, morality etc. are the descendants of religious lessons that come through the prophets, from Adam to Muhammad. We can not prove murder, adultery as a crime without religions, like if we can kill animals for food, the killing of human will be justified if someone need blood, eyes or kidney without religion.

[q]

Here are the Ten Commandments of Musa:

1) You shall have no other gods before me.

2) You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

3)You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

4) Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

5) Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

6) You shall not murder.

7) You shall not commit adultery.

8) You shall not steal.

9) You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

10) You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

[q]

Now still I would say, we can practice honesty, morality separately in national level without religion like Japan, though looks impossible in this region. Because practicing religion in national level can make problem we as all citizens do not want to practice religion tightly and completely.

 

[Skallagrim]

Yes, take the example of Japan, being an atheist society they are honest, moral etc.....and peaceful and successful....how do they know about honesty, morality without religions?


On the other hands, yes the concept of honesty, morality etc. are the descendants of religious lessons that come through the prophets, from Adam to Muhammad. We can not prove murder, adultery as a crime without religions, like if we can kill animals for food, the killing of human will be justified if someone need blood, eyes or kidney without religion.

[q]

Here are the Ten Commandments of Musa:

1) You shall have no other gods before me.

2) You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

3)You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

4) Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

5) Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

6) You shall not murder.

7) You shall not commit adultery.

8) You shall not steal.

9) You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

10) You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

[q]

Now still I would say, we can practice honesty, morality separately in national level without religion like Japan, though looks impossible in this region. Because practicing religion in national level can make problem we as all citizens do not want to practice religion tightly and completely.

New 'atheist map' of the world dominated by China where half the country¿s population describes themselves as non-believers | Mail Online

According to the above link atheist population of Japan is 31% and for China it's still less than 50%. Again for some society even if the percentage exceeds 50% at some time and yet it exhibits similar moral standard of a religious society still it would not be appropriate to conclusively say that there's no correlation between morality and religion because that society has had a religious past of thousands of years.

 

[animelive]

Yes, take the example of Japan, being an atheist society they are honest, moral etc.....and peaceful and successful....how do they know about honesty, morality without religions?

Japan has to be the weirdest and most f-ed up country

 

[Skies]

OMG! There are atheists in Saudi Arab 5% to 9%!

OMG! There are atheists in Saudi Arab 5% to 9%!

 

[Zabaniyah]

Japan has to be the weirdest and most f-ed up country

Careful, the Japanese know the way of the Samurai

I have lived there myself.

Many fond memories.

OMG! There are atheists in Saudi Arab 5% to 9%!

Not sure if that survey is even reliable

 

[animelive]

Careful, the Japanese know the way of the Samurai

I have lived there myself.

Many fond memories.

Yes Japan was pretty good a good 2-3 decades back but now even my Japanese friends tell me that it is currently the darkest side of asia where no one must dwell in

 

[Zabaniyah]

Yes Japan was pretty good a good 2-3 decades back but now even my Japanese friends tell me that it is currently the darkest side of asia where no one must dwell in

The 90's were the best!

I know since I used to live there back then

They are now being over-shadowed by the Chinese and those evil Koreans.

 

[animelive]

The 90's were the best!

I know since I used to live there back then

They are now being over-shadowed by the Chinese and those evil Koreans.

But then again, many things used to be better back in the 90's i have to say though, Japanese tech are awesome

 

[Zabaniyah]

But then again, many things used to be better back in the 90's i have to say though, Japanese tech are awesome

Indeed:

 

[animelive]

Indeed:

oh god, i take my words back. that is outright creepy