CM-400AKG: A tough job for the Indian Navy

[Ammyy]

Naval Blockades aren't enforced by getting a dozen aircraft in air ever , something I explained earlier to an other member here . Search the ' loiter time ' thing and the fuel spent when flying low or roaming an area and the need for constant refueling . Doesn't work that way , at all . Honestly , if it was that , much could have been done against Pakistan . The other country too possesses an airforce which is something you all are very keen to not mention . The anti-submarine warfare is carried out by P3C's and Z9 EC for Pakistan Navy , what is the big deal ? Any submarine coming close to the coastline will be detected by those assets . You cant stay close to your shores , say Jamnagar , and enforce a blockade from there .

Trust me , the Mig29K's will meet opposition if they come close to the shores , besides we do not only field just the JFT , there are other aircraft the maritime squadron of PN for one . You know the specifications and capabilities of the JFT to declare it like ' hey but what is coming against them ' when even the Mikoyan Bureau chief puts the aircraft very close to Mig29K's and asked the Russian Govt to block the sales of RD-93 ? . Search it or ask me for a link . Half knowledge is dangerous . If the whole assumption has now shifted to the carriers remaining close to the shores , then we have no need to take it out since it cant block our SLOC's from there . The geography favors us in this case with the area where most of world's oil supply passes , being just too close .

First he only said about price... Jf17 is cheap.

And close to MIG 29 K ????

Capability is not even near to SMT level ... Dnt even think about Mig29K

 

[Secur]

First he only said about price... Jf17 is cheap.

Then perhaps , you should read his post again .

Second , I didn't make it up for a debate by any chance . That statement was given by the Mikoyan chief and widely reported on the WWW . That is why , I asked him to ask for a link if he couldn't find it himself .

The argument is threatening to put on hold a multi-billion-dollar engines sale contract between the countries concerning the delivery of some hundreds Russian-made RD-93 engines needed for Chinese-Pakistani fighter jets called the FC-1.The deal is facing opposition from Russian aircraft manufacturers, such as Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi aviation holding, who said that the FC-1 is extremely close, if not the same, as the Russian-made MiG-29. Pogosyan claimed that FC-1 is a direct competitor to Russia's MiG-29 and the deal would incur losses for the Russian manufacturers.

http://rt.com/prime-time/2010-07-05/china-airplanes-copies-russia.html

Where's this ' superiority complex ' coming from if I may ask when the manufacturers themselves realize the negligible difference between the two aircraft and they have much more information at hand to compare ? Your ' K ' variant was there back in 2010 if you aren't aware of that , forget the thinking part , I have the statement from the people who manufacture it

 

[Safriz]

About origins of CM-400
The same chinese factory that manufactures SY-400 GMLRS manufactures CM-400...
Both systems have same dia of 400mm.
SY-400 is confirmed to have a speed of mach 4+.

 

[Ammyy]

Then perhaps , you should read his post again .

Second , I didn't make it up for a debate by any chance . That statement was given by the Mikoyan chief and widely reported on the WWW . That is why , I asked him to ask for a link if he couldn't find it himself .

The argument is threatening to put on hold a multi-billion-dollar engines sale contract between the countries concerning the delivery of some hundreds Russian-made RD-93 engines needed for Chinese-Pakistani fighter jets called the FC-1.The deal is facing opposition from Russian aircraft manufacturers, such as Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi aviation holding, who said that the FC-1 is extremely close, if not the same, as the Russian-made MiG-29. Pogosyan claimed that FC-1 is a direct competitor to Russia's MiG-29 and the deal would incur losses for the Russian manufacturers.

http://rt.com/prime-time/2010-07-05/china-airplanes-copies-russia.html

Where's this ' superiority complex ' coming from if I may ask when the manufacturers themselves realize the negligible difference between the two aircraft and they have much more information at hand to compare ? Your ' K ' variant was there back in 2010 if you aren't aware of that , forget the thinking part , I have the statement from the people who manufacture it

First of all your link is not working.

Even if he said that, there are so many version of MIG29 and may be he referring to low cost version which they want to sell small and poor African counties (potential customers of jf17) and if you talk logically and with respect to specs that not even come close to both SMT and K variant.

 

[Secur]

First of all your link is not working.

Even if he said that, there are so many version of MIG29 and may be he referring to low cost version which they want to sell small and poor African counties (potential customers of jf17) and if you talk logically and with respect to specs that not even come close to both SMT and K variant.

Didn't check it . But yet I posted the excerpt from that . You simply could have searched it on the web and came across dozens of different links . Leave it , here's another .

Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets : Venäjän Ääni

Not ' even if he said ' , he did say that . He gave this statement in 2010 and there is no new variant of Mig 29 introduced for any country since then . This ' maybe he was referring to ' part doesn't work well since the statement was very clear about FC 1 being close to MiG 29 and the version of JFT that will be exported to African countries after completing demands from PAF will be completely different from what we use for ourselves hence no question of comparing the ' for export watered down ' versions .

Logically speaking , I expect him to have more and better information than me to compare these aircraft since he's the manufacturer , what say you ?

 

[Ammyy]

Didn't check it . But yet I posted the excerpt from that . You simply could have search it on the web and came across dozens of different links . Leave it , here's another .

Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets : Venäjän Ääni

From your same source

.A source quoted by the Kommersant newspaper said there are significant price differences keeping the US$10-million Chinese jets much cheaper than a $35-million Russian MiG-29.

Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets : Venäjän Ääni

Just tell me one thing which version of MIG29 come with price tag of 35 million dollers.

Not ' even if he said ' , he did say that . He gave this statement in 2010 and there is no new variant of Mig 29 introduced for any country since then . This ' maybe he was referring to ' part doesn't work well since the statement was very clear and the version of JFT that will be exported to African countries after completing demands from PAF will be completely difference hence no question of comparing the ' for export watered down ' versions .

Then why Russia still able to find new customers but China still waiting to sell it apart from Pakistan ????

 

[Secur]

Then why Russia still able to find new customers but China still waiting to sell it apart from Pakistan ????

Actually , its irrelevant , since the newspaper's quoting an unknown source , besides the official statement which mentions nothing of that sort . Just for your knowledge , no JFT even comes at the price of $ 10 millions . The PAF's current ones all exceed the price tag of $ 20-25 million easily .

A couple of problems . The PAF needs a total of 150-200 JFT to reduce its aircraft types and replace the old airframes and unless and until our demands are met , there isn't going to be any export of any kind . Second , the engines are a complicated problem , the CAC bought some 500 RD-93's for Pakistan from the Russians but for a foreign country , again a NOC would be required hence the development of a new engine by the Chinese for the aircraft .

There are aspects of MiG 29 such as multiple engines and 2 crew thing ( limited to some ) which can bring a massive increase in ferry range , loiter time , max take off weight and combat radius but nothing I know of that makes any difference in our scenarios , as I said before , we aren't thousands of KMs apart from each other . Otherwise , both aircraft are capability wise more or less the same .

 

[Ammyy]

Actually , its irrelevant , since the newspaper's quoting an unknown source , besides the official statement which mentions nothing of that sort . Just for your knowledge , no JFT even comes at the price of $ 10 millions . The PAF's current ones all exceed the price tag of $ 20-25 million easily .

A couple of problems . The PAF needs a total of 150-200 JFT to reduce its aircraft types and replace the old airframes and unless and until our demands are met , there isn't going to be any export of any kind . Second , the engines are a complicated problem , the CAC bought some 500 RD-93's for Pakistan from the Russians but for a foreign country , again a NOC would be required hence the development of a new engine by the Chinese for the aircraft .

Firstly China will manufacture aircraft if they will sell jf17 apart from Pakistan. Just like you call one trainer aircraft and battle tank JV but still manufactured by China for export. So your first claim takes no value.

China can manufacture as many they want, main problem is order.

There are aspects of MiG 29 such as multiple engines and 2 crew thing ( limited to some ) which can bring a massive increase in ferry range , loiter time , max take off weight and combat radius but nothing I know of that makes any difference in our scenarios , as I said before , we aren't thousands of KMs apart from each other . Otherwise , both aircraft are capability wise more or less the same .

This is what I want to know ... Why India need aircraft carrier to attack Pakistan.

If we talk about complete naval blockage then it’s a different thing and I think even after 500-600 KM distance we can easily achieve it. And that distance will make both JF17 and that missile useless because non of them come close to our carrier.

 

[Bullet500]

Indians ko Behno pe gaaliya deni ki boht jaldi hoti hai ... Bhai Jo kehna hai kaho I like his theory. Mujhe Gaaliya nai khaani its not a literate thing so sorry for my post !

bhai by bc I ment bull crap sorry if you took it other way!

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Sea skimming isnt that important in this day and era when AWACS and survailance drones with look down radars can easily spot and track an incoming missile,no matter how low its flying.

Seaskimming is mportant not for detection but difficulty to intercept low altitude flying high G missile with ship defences.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Then perhaps , you should read his post again .

Second , I didn't make it up for a debate by any chance . That statement was given by the Mikoyan chief and widely reported on the WWW . That is why , I asked him to ask for a link if he couldn't find it himself .

The argument is threatening to put on hold a multi-billion-dollar engines sale contract between the countries concerning the delivery of some hundreds Russian-made RD-93 engines needed for Chinese-Pakistani fighter jets called the FC-1.The deal is facing opposition from Russian aircraft manufacturers, such as Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi aviation holding, who said that the FC-1 is extremely close, if not the same, as the Russian-made MiG-29. Pogosyan claimed that FC-1 is a direct competitor to Russia's MiG-29 and the deal would incur losses for the Russian manufacturers.

http://rt.com/prime-time/2010-07-05/china-airplanes-copies-russia.html

Where's this ' superiority complex ' coming from if I may ask when the manufacturers themselves realize the negligible difference between the two aircraft and they have much more information at hand to compare ? Your ' K ' variant was there back in 2010 if you aren't aware of that , forget the thinking part , I have the statement from the people who manufacture it

In basic airframe perhaps,but see stats and tell me how there is negligible difference between 2.
Mig-29k better radar,IRST tracker,more hardpoints,Better angle of attack,far better thrust to weight ratio,better climb rate,High off boresight missile and more varieties of weapons to confuse countermeasures,Much better speed.
Against all this jf-17 only has better wing loading due to smaller size.So tell me how difference is negligible.Base airframe maybe very similar but not complete aircraft.

 

[Anony]

The CM400 AKG has confirmed deployment on the JFT . Just because you do not know about it or aren't willing to believe that the aircraft in question has evolved rapidly integrating more weapons , doesn't change anything .


The CM-400AKG is now part of the operational weapon set of the PAF's JF-17 Thunder multirole fighter. "This is a mature weapon which has been fully tested . It is not conceptual. It is in service," Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood, PAF JF-17 Deputy Project Director stated. "The CM-400AKG is a very high-speed missile that is very difficult to intercept. It hits the target at Mach 4 or above and its kinetic impact alone is enough to destroy any high-value target, like an aircraft carrier."


I think I will take the word of the people who actually manage the project anyday over those of people on a forum denying its existence , its operational status , the ability of the said aircraft to field or fire it or declaring it a " ghost missile " .

Good take their words without any sight of proof: Some of their words are as follows:-

1. Pakistan won 1965 war

2. Pakistan Army were not associated with Kargil war

3. No Saab Erieye aircraft were damaged during terrorist attack

4. Only one P-3C aircraft was damaged in terrorist attack and that too slight damage (initial statement)

Dude, don't read a single line and start trolling. Read the entire post where I just asked for very nominal proof. No technical and classified information. Just logical one.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Naval Blockades aren't enforced by getting a dozen aircraft in air ever , something I explained earlier to an other member here . Search the ' loiter time ' thing and the fuel spent when flying low or roaming an area and the need for constant refueling . Doesn't work that way , at all . Honestly , if it was that , much could have been done against Pakistan . The other country too possesses an airforce which is something you all are very keen to not mention . The anti-submarine warfare is carried out by P3C's and Z9 EC for Pakistan Navy , what is the big deal ? Any submarine coming close to the coastline will be detected by those assets . You cant stay close to your shores , say Jamnagar , and enforce a blockade from there .

Trust me , the Mig29K's will meet opposition if they come close to the shores , besides we do not only field just the JFT , there are other aircraft the maritime squadron of PN for one . You know the specifications and capabilities of the JFT to declare it like ' hey but what is coming against them ' when even the Mikoyan Bureau chief puts the aircraft very close to Mig29K's and asked the Russian Govt to block the sales of RD-93 ? . Search it or ask me for a link . Half knowledge is dangerous . If the whole assumption has now shifted to the carriers remaining close to the shores , then we have no need to take it out since it cant block our SLOC's from there . The geography favors us in this case with the area where most of world's oil supply passes , being just too close .

Sir its an honour to talk to a person like you but of all your saying that MIGs anlone cant force a naval blokade ok Fine but sir what you are forgeting is that pakistan is next doar to india and indian ground based radars scan and track all movemnts of airplanes and such of your air bases and while hidden deep inside indian teritorry and we have of the worlds best AWACS & Aerostat radars thanks to isreal & USA which will alert indian CGB well before your planes leave the pakistani airspace to attack indian CBG further more we have at least 150 upgraded JAGS for ground and sea assoult wich are based comfortablli close to mount a counter attck backed by 60 upgraded MIG 29 & almost equal no of upgraded Mirrage 2000 and how will you counter them and have spare JF17 for the naval assault as there current radars are not even at par with owr bisons not to forget the Mighty SU 30MKI which can easli carry 1 bhrmos + at least 6 BVR among other wepons and trust me we need onli two squads of those to neutralize all your defensive and offensive capabilities

so my point is that we dont need owr CBG to be at least 500 KMs from pakistani shore(as its MIGs with 850 KM fighting radius) can hold and blunt any ariel threat you might want to do and owr ground based assets wont be sitting and watching the whole episode

so my question to you SIR now is how will you come even close say 250 KMs to owr CBG and mind it we will have 3 very shortli VIRAT isnt going any where + VIKRMADITYA & in near future we will have owr desi VIKRANT as well + a sizable amount of latest SUBS of which the latest french scorpenes will be in western theater while the russian ones will take care of bay of bengal and indian ocean backed by the latest P8s

so my question is still how will pakistanies come close to owr shore /CBG to mount an attack withowt bieng detected and destroyed please answer me im waiting

 

[Anony]

About origins of CM-400
The same chinese factory that manufactures SY-400 GMLRS manufactures CM-400...
Both systems have same dia of 400mm.
SY-400 is confirmed to have a speed of mach 4+.

Are bhai, Sy-400 is a ballistic missile with just 150km-200km range with 150kg warhead. You mean to say, based on ballistic missile technology, China has developed cruise missile CM-400.

For your information, SY-400 is a decade old technology. India has Dhanush missile for its Navy having range of 350km with 1000 kg payload or 600 km with 500kg payload.

And China don't have any weapon of this type for their own Navy or Airforce, but they have build it for PAF.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Are bhai, Sy-400 is a ballistic missile with just 150km-200km range with 150kg warhead. You mean to say, based on ballistic missile technology, China has developed cruise missile CM-400.

For your information, SY-400 is a decade old technology. India has Dhanush missile for its Navy having range of 350km with 1000 kg payload or 600 km with 500kg payload.

And China don't have any weapon of this type for their own Navy or Airforce, but they have build it for PAF.

or does it means that as usual chinese have hyped about there missile if im not wrong he means that the super duper CM400AKG is nothing much but an air launched rocket/ BM with a seeker and a new fancy name