Cleric terms Women’s Protection Bill contrary to Islamic Sharia

[SMC]

You are correct.

True.
This bill is a rape of human rights. Throwing out of house, wearing wrist band (کڑا ) , confiscating firearm, paying compensations, and so on.
Most of the pdf'ers are expirates. Can they mention any Western law which bears resemblance to this law?

The fanatical supporters of this law on pdf have already assumed that this law will protect "opressed" women from their "maniac" husbands. However, it isn't always like that---women aren't always opressed and husbands aren't always maniacs in Pakistan.

It looks like Pakistan is going the way of western radical feminism in some regards. If a woman indeed throw the husband out of the house or the husband must pay alimony, etc, this will eventually kill the institution of marriage in Pakistan. This has what's killed marriage in western countries, because men do not marry since their wife can take over their house, men lose at least half their wealth, have to pay half their income to their wife and lose the kids as well. If Pakistan goes this way, which it sounds like it is, then you can say good bye to the institution of marriage in the long term.

As per the statistics collected from all over Pakistan, How many men killed women for honor killings and how many women killed their men for honor killing in last year alone ?

Just thought I'd bring up a different statistic for you: Hope Solo and the Surprising Truth About Women and Violence

In Pakistan there's likely very little research in domestic violence. But even in western countries where it is commonly assumed that men commit nearly all of the domestic violence (a myth parroted by feminist-controlled education system and media), it turns out that half of domestic violence is actually committed by women. So don't be surprised if an unbiased study not funded by interest groups finds similar results in Pakistan in the future.

Women are physically weaker and precisely thats why a softer law is applied for domestic voilence so that males before going bonkers at home would think twice of the consequences .. Before they could get away scot free as it was not a offence.

Sorry dude, I think you are forgetting that women have access to weapons such as knives or household objects they can use against men. It's not an animal world here where only way to attack someone is to use your body parts.

1. Eviction of the abusive husband from the house, irrespective of who owns it, is meant to be a protection for the wife and a deterrent for the perpetrator of the crime. A woman should not have to worry about where she will have to sleep and live (especially if there are children involved) after reporting an abusive husband to the police. The fact of the matter is that in most societies, especially Pakistan, men will be safer and more easily able to find accommodation outside their own home than women will. The burden on children who will have to also leave the house with the wife to escape an abusive husband will be enormous. The law, while not being perfect on this particular point, is taking the least damaging route in requiring the husband accused of abuse to be evicted.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. If the state thinks that the woman needs protection then they can provide the protection themselves. It is completely illogical, inhumane, and counter intuitive to kick someone out of their own house just based on a complaint. I also don't see how men will have an easier time finding alternative accommodation compared to the woman. There are women's shelters included in this bill or they can find accommodation with an acquaintance.

Is this bill gender neutral or does it apply only the female victims of these crimes?

 

[curious]

Some people are taking this prima facie part a bit too far.

The principal of prima facie is used all the time. How do you think courts decide whether to keep an arrested person in remand or let them go home? The court must look at the initial evidence and decide whether the person is a danger to the public, will pervert the course of justice or if he is likely to abscond. It is not the same as guilty until proven innocent, it is an essential part of the law to ensure people do not evade justice.

True but Prima facie in murder or armed robbery or terrorism case is one thing, here we are talking about domestic violence. All that needs to be established is that "the defendant has committed an act of violence or is likely to commit an act of violence".Imagine how easy it will be to establish that in a domestic violence case. Once that is established, and the man fails to rebut it, the court can proceed to impose the penalties in the bill.

Note the word evidence. An accuser need to show evidence such as medical reports, witness statements, pictures of injuries etc. It is not a simple thing to build a prima facie case, and anyway the accused has the opportunity afterwards to prove his innocence.

The point is that its too easy to establish the man's guilt in domestic violence and the penalties being imposed are violating several basic rights like the right to property, right to privacy, right to arm oneself etc. This is totally unreasonable and unfair.

 

[SMC]

The proponents of this bill have already assumed that it's always the fault of men.

This is a battle that cannot be won. Women's problems are considered far above and beyond any problem men face. Ditto with men being considered guilty by default. Consider the phrase "x number of women and children were killed". Clearly men are being considered either second class or guilty by default by having their deaths relegated to second tier of deaths. If you have some free time, go through the posts I made in this thread: The Woman Who Thinks Reducing the Male Population by 90 Percent Will Solve Everything

What you're describing (which I agree with) is behaviour natural to humans, both male and female. Nature cannot be changed so easily. Even the smallest female problems will be considered more important than big male problems. Example, note how much noise was made in the media about the "manspreading" problem. Now look at how much noise is made about the fact that vast majority of homeless are men, or that women now make up 60% of college graduates, or that men live 3-4 years less than women on average. Considering men's problems as beneath anything and expecting men to just "man up" and "suck it up" is just part of natural human programming. If you go through the thread I listed above, it'll be quite informative and detailed in how this plays out in societies across the globe.

 

[ghazi52]

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[Dubious]

A prominent cleric

Usually when papers use such words, the guy barely is a 10th grader pass and is in position only coz his dad or ancestor played some role OR even better coz he has a few 20 murids if he is so bloody famous his name would have been used!

These laws are in contradiction

Whats the contradiction? Do you know the meaning of that word?

making all crimes against the women an offence including domestic violence, emotional, psychological and economic abuse, verbal abuse, stalking, abetment of an offence, and cyber crimes.

Contradiction to this law would be do crime against women...So does the Quran happen to say beat women up? rape them and be violent? If that were the case then Prophet SAW was contradicting YOUR quran where he didnt beat his women and ALWAYS told about how important a mother is...It would be a pathetic joke if he was asking the father of that child to inflict harm on the same mother (who is a woman)

USE YOUR BRAINS AT TIMES PLEASE! It is not a decoration piece!

 

[SMC]

I'd appreciate if anyone can answer this question.
Is this bill gender neutral or does it apply only the female victims of these crimes? I have read articles and it appears to be only covering female victims of these crimes.

 

[Hell hound]

I'd appreciate if anyone can answer this question.
Is this bill gender neutral or does it apply only the female victims of these crimes? I have read articles and it appears to be only covering female victims of these crimes.

female centric

 

[Dubious]

This is a battle that cannot be won. Women's problems are considered far above and beyond any problem men face. Ditto with men being considered guilty by default. Consider the phrase "x number of women and children were killed". Clearly men are being considered either second class or guilty by default by having their deaths relegated to second tier of deaths. If you have some free time, go through the posts I made in this thread: The Woman Who Thinks Reducing the Male Population by 90 Percent Will Solve Everything

What you're describing (which I agree with) is behaviour natural to humans, both male and female. Nature cannot be changed so easily. Even the smallest female problems will be considered more important than big male problems. Example, note how much noise was made in the media about the "manspreading" problem. Now look at how much noise is made about the fact that vast majority of homeless are men, or that women now make up 60% of college graduates, or that men live 3-4 years less than women on average. Considering men's problems as beneath anything and expecting men to just "man up" and "suck it up" is just part of natural human programming. If you go through the thread I listed above, it'll be quite informative and detailed in how this plays out in societies across the globe.

Each gender has his or her own "Rights"

No one should be second citizen but to grant a woman rights doesnt automatically push the men down to 2nd class...Whosoever thinks that really does have limited foresight!

This was a law against violence against women.....Sure there is a law against violence against human beings...Laws include dont shoot men (woman or men), accidents, beating up, fights, rape (is not stated be it a man or woman) and so on....But violence against women have become so much as a norm that giving women rights makes SOME feel 2nd class...That child is disgusting thinking and should be flushed out of the system ASAP!

No one is asking a man to suck up just coz women are going to be treated as human! Your analogy can ONLY be applied if for starters women were ALREADY given their rightful rights of seeking justice, not being afraid of society, not being the victims of neglect say if they want a divorce from an abusive husband, not trashed if some asshole threw acid on their face, not judged if some asshole blackmails them with pix taken from wherever, not insults them for wanting to educate and work...

But sorry to burst your bubble you, these things DO HAPPEN so very often that men have to be told to back of coz menmade laws are going to protect and keep in check and provide security!

It doesnt make men 2nd class citizens but just tells to stop behaving like Neanderthals

I have read articles and it appears to be only covering female victims of these crimes.

Because in Pakistan, some animals need to be told women are human too...sad reality! Something that shouldnt fall under "need to be told" in this century!

 

[T-123456]

So,women have rights to?

 

[SMC]

Each gender has his or her own "Rights"

No one should be second citizen but to grant a woman rights doesnt automatically push the men down to 2nd class...Whosoever thinks that really does have limited foresight!

No, rights are universal and should be the same for either gender. Granting women different rights and making crimes against them a bigger crime than crime against men DOES men relegating men to a second class, by the very definition of "class".

I posted an article above that proves half of the domestic violence is committed by women in the US, even though it was commonly assumed in that same country that men commit nearly all the domestic violence. In Pakistan, there's likely very little research on domestic violence that's not funded by interest groups. But it's commonly assumed, much like the US, that men commit nearly all the domestic violence. Let's take a really conservative guess and say that 5% of domestic violence is toward men in Pakistan. What happens to the male victims of those crimes? Should women who commit those crimes not be punished the same way? This law would suggest a female who does this would not be punished the same way, hence the double standard and the relegating of men to a second class of victims.

This was a law against violence against women.....Sure there is a law against violence against human beings...Laws include dont shoot men (woman or men), accidents, beating up, fights, rape (is not stated be it a man or woman) and so on....But violence against women have become so much as a norm that giving women rights makes SOME feel 2nd class...That child is disgusting thinking and should be flushed out of the system ASAP!

There's nothing logical or intuitive about this argument. Make universal laws that apply to either gender. Do not introduce gender into the law. I will not for a moment claim that violence against women is not common in Pakistan. However, that doesn't mean making special laws for that demographic.

No one is asking a man to suck up just coz women are going to be treated as human! Your analogy can ONLY be applied if for starters women were ALREADY given their rightful rights of seeking justice, not being afraid of society, not being the victims of neglect say if they want a divorce from an abusive husband, not trashed if some asshole threw acid on their face, not judged if some asshole blackmails them with pix taken from wherever, not insults them for wanting to educate and work...

Most of these laws already existed, however the issue has always been with implementation in Pakistan. By "sucking up" I meant that men are told to "suck up" when women are abusive toward them. This has nothing to do "women are going to be treated as human" and protecting their rights. I am asking men be treated as human and not some worthless punching bag that can be take as much abuse as thrown at them.

Historically speaking, and even today, the issues related to violence that women face is not due to the lack of laws but the implementation of laws. The fact that implementation is lacking is not just when women are victims. How often do you see robberies, murders, kidnapping cases being solved in Pakistan? So let's not pretend that women's violence problems were neglected while other crimes were solved all the time.

But sorry to burst your bubble you, these things DO HAPPEN so very often that men have to be told to back of coz menmade laws are going to protect and keep in check and provide security!

It doesnt make men 2nd class citizens but just tells to stop behaving like Neanderthals

I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry.

 

[AUz]

@Hell hound

Brotha, you said you went through the bill. Where can I find it? I wanna read it as well.

Please give me a link etc. I tried googling it but nothing shows up

Regards.

 

[Hell hound]

@Hell hound

Brotha, you said you went through the bill. Where can I find it? I wanna read it as well.

Please give me a link etc. I tried googling it but nothing shows up

Regards.

here you go bro.
http://www.punjabcode.punjab.gov.pk...N OF WOMEN AGAINST VIOLENCE BILL 2015.doc.pdf
credits sir @Bratva

 

[T-123456]

No, rights are universal and should be the same for either gender. Granting women different rights and making crimes against them a bigger crime than crime against men DOES men relegating men to a second class, by the very definition of "class".

Doesnt that depend on the society or the country you live in?
You would be right if it was an equal rights society where men and women have the same rights and are treated equal,but as you know,Pakistan is not such a country,therefor this law is necessary.
How can a village ''court''(some clerics,village elders or chief) ''overthrow'' a decission by a state court and how is that acceptable to those concerned?

 

[Dubious]

No, rights are universal and should be the same for either gender.

but statistics of Pakistan tells you the rights of women have forever been overlooked...so "re introducing" them to society isnt by any means favouring one of the other esp when one was never ever acknowledged to begin with!

Granting women different rights DOES men relegating men to a second class. What happens to male victims of the same crimes?

What different rights? Men in Pakistan for most of their life have been favoured for just having one Y chromosome...

When there is any case a woman is automatically blamed for being raped, blamed for getting acid thrown on her, blamed for acquiring a pervert stalker ...When was the last time any of these fell on a male?

And if the govt says we need to do something about this trend that has never been addressed is it favouring 1 gender over the other or ACTUALLY FINALLY recognizing the other gender as equal and right-worthy?

I posted an article above that proves half of the domestic violence is committed by women in the US

We are talking about Pakistan....where women are in a dire need to be called HUMAN WITH RIGHTS
The problem with you projecting is that US has given rights to women and women rights group has bumped these a little too much....so much that some men have to beg their ex wives just to see their children, so bad that some women claim everything from their ex husbands pushing them to the street...Now that is something brought on themselves, and cant be equated when in Pakistan women arent even treated equally to human!

. But it's commonly assumed, much like the US, that men commit nearly all the domestic violence.

It is assumed and GENERALLY it is the case as women in our society arent exactly taught of their own rights to be treated as a human....many wont even complain about domestic abuse coz "log kiya kehain gay" many wont report a stalker coz again "log kiya kahein gay" many wont even report a rape coz police being a member of the society will also be part of the log and actually attack the victim...It isnt unheard of! Tell me how many men find themselves in such situations (IN PAKISTAN)?

. Let's take a really conservative guess and say that 5% of domestic violence is toward men in Pakistan. What happens to the male victims of those crimes?

Then he falls under the general laws where, NO ONE is to be harmed and gets away with it (which doesnt happen if you flash your VVIP card) or happen to know someone

Basically, if you are say harmed, beaten up, show your marks and get your justice (if any is remaining in your area from the corrupt politicians).

Should women who commit those crimes not be punished the same way? This law would suggest a female who does this would not be punished the same way, hence the double standard and the relegating of men to a second class of victims.

BTW, women are not locked in the same prison as men even in USA...But still Does the law suggest that (bold part)? Please do show me where?!

There's nothing logical or intuitive about this argument. Make universal laws that apply to either gender. Do not introduce gender into the law. I will not for a moment claim that violence against women is not common in Pakistan. However, that doesn't mean making special laws for that demographic.

We do have universal laws, which apparently didnt apply to women (rape laws somehow always made the women victim guilty)....So this is the next step let people see women as humans...with rights.

Most of these laws already existed, however the issue has always been with implementation in Pakistan. By "sucking up" I meant that men are told to "suck up" when women are abusive toward them. This has nothing to do "women are going to be treated as human" and protecting their rights. I am asking men be treated as human and not some worthless punching bag that can be take as much abuse as thrown at them.

Implementation has always been a problem. I know what suck up is....It is happening to women in Pakistan currently, oh you have an abusive husband, suck it up and live with him or his brother will divorce your sister, or husband will divorce you and your family will reject you....oh you have been raped, I am sorry to hear (goes and announces it into the neighborhood where everyone comes with their condolences but no one will offer their son in marriage), oh there were pictures of your daughter online with her classmates who were male, well each male gets married but no one will want a "wild" woman...and the examples carry on...suck it up has been used for woman for so long now you as a man feel that it will be smashed into your face?

It is no hidden story that a faulty man is a brilliant mate but god forbid a faulty wife comes in the story ...she will bring the house down and bring badness to the whole family tree...this mind you is the current mindset of equality in our society!

I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry.

I am trying to wake you up to the CURRENT situation in Pakistan it is nothing like CANADA! Clarify that bit before going hysterical about something you didnt understand ALTOGETHER!

Doesnt that depend on the society or the country you live in?
You would be right if it was an equal rights society where men and women have the same rights and are treated equal,but as you know,Pakistan is not such a country,therefor this law is necessary.

THANK YOU for the summary uncle

 

[AUz]

here you go bro.
http://www.punjabcode.punjab.gov.pk/public/dr/PUNJAB PROTECTION OF WOMEN AGAINST VIOLENCE BILL 2015.doc.pdf
credits sir @Bratva

Thanks bro. Let me read this ish.

Honestly, the more I learn about this bill---the more I tend to agree with people who are opposing this so called "women's right" bill.

Lets see what so-called retarded wanna be westernized liberals of Pakistan are hailing as a great bill.

Imma read the whole thing and give my analysis in this thread.