Citizen ship for illegals

[KAMDEV]

It is a good idea to grant Afghans citizenship, especially those born in Pakistan after 1979. They feel Pakistan is their home, more so then Afghanistan. These new Pakistani citizens could still have Afghan connections, and after a peace treaty is signed in Afghanistan, these citizens and the government would be better able to integrate The Afghan Economy, businesses into Pakistan.

The Mughal empire granted citizenship to newly conquered regions. While Pakistan has not conquered Afghanistan, this is one way to fused the two countries economically and socially. The Pashtun regions, in Afghanistan, at the very least will look to Peshawar, Quetta, and Karachi over Kabul for cultural and social developments.

Very good

 

[Al-zakir]

Noble step by Khan. Good luck with your endeavors.

Seems IK wants to give citizen ship to both Bangladeshi and afghansfftom karachi speech

Your opinions ?
Mine
Give citizenships to Bangladeshi but ask the bangleddesh govt to reciprocate that with similar citizenship for people stuck their

Ask Afghanistan govt and unied states to take afghans as Afghanistan can easily support them with usa help

Bihari already given option to accept Bd citizenship. Many would not accept and many already did. They are divided on citizen issue.

 

[TMA]

Yar, I listened to his speech and I feel people are taking it out of the context. He said that for only those Afghanis who are born in Pakistan. Rest of them will go back to Afghanistan.
However, I would suggest making a criteria.

Mate don't you get it. They will marry Afghans and bring them across. They will have Afghan children. They do not "believe" in Pakistan. There will be a massive vote bank for anti state parties...
This will act as a major anchor.....

It is a good idea to grant Afghans citizenship, especially those born in Pakistan after 1979. They feel Pakistan is their home, more so then Afghanistan. These new Pakistani citizens could still have Afghan connections, and after a peace treaty is signed in Afghanistan, these citizens and the government would be better able to integrate The Afghan Economy, businesses into Pakistan.

The Mughal empire granted citizenship to newly conquered regions. While Pakistan has not conquered Afghanistan, this is one way to fused the two countries economically and socially. The Pashtun regions, in Afghanistan, at the very least will look to Peshawar, Quetta, and Karachi over Kabul for cultural and social developments.

And how many of those conquered regions fought for the defence of the Mughal Empire when she was declining....

 

[war&peace]

Mate don't you get it. They will marry Afghans and bring them across. They will have Afghan children. They do not "believe" in Pakistan. There will be a massive vote bank for anti state parties...
This will act as a major anchor.....

I think we need to give them some sort of legal status less than nationality ( a different ID and an alien passport)... which allows them to live legally in Pakistan but they get tested time and again... before naturalised. Some out of the box solution. Totally illegal is also dangerous.

 

[YeBeWarned]

If Imran Khan screwed Pakistan, than all i have to say that Thank god I will be soon leaving for US ..

 

[Mrc]

Imran Khan again not thinking with his head but a**. Did he consult all provincial governments before making this statement? Pakistan isn't jagir of PTI. PTI already signed document to deport afghanis from Balochistan.

U cannot back track on signed agreement... very immature at best...

This issue is buried till foreseeable future

 

[FuturePAF]

Mate don't you get it. They will marry Afghans and bring them across. They will have Afghan children. They do not "believe" in Pakistan. There will be a massive vote bank for anti state parties...
This will act as a major anchor.....


And how many of those conquered regions fought for the defence of the Mughal Empire when she was declining....

The history of the Subcontinent has been of fiercely independent states rising up in rebellion of any empire that tries to keep them under its rule. The diversity of the people, stemming originally from their various ethnic origins (all the way back to the days of Harrapa and The Aryan invasion), belies a loyalty to ones kin above all else.

To Quote a Pakistani Pashtun saying I remember from a old news article:
"There is a famous Pakistani Pashtun quote: "I am a Pakistani for 50 years, a Muslim for 1,500 years and a Pashtun for 5,000 years.""
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ancien...jewish-community-once-thrived-in-afghanistan/

The question you should not ask is will these 3-4 Million Afghanis born in Pakistan over the last 40 years be loyal to Pakistan? Why are the current 30-40 million Pakistani Pashtuns loyal to Pakistan? For all intents and purposes, the 3-4 million Pakistan born Afghanis are Pakistani in all but Identity card. They know more of Karachi then Kabul or Kandahar.

If they marry Afghans from their ancestral tribe, and bring them to Pakistan, and have "Afghan" babies, What will These babies say they are, if They go to Pakistani Schools, are included in every way in the Culture, and are on equal footing with their neighbors. Remember, our cultures are not all that different as those of say the US and Mexico where you can see 2nd and 3rd generation Mexican Americans are assimilating when holding legal status. Children of Illegal Mexican Immigrants stay in the shadows, and their children, having grown up in fear, don't assimilate.

This is why "naturalizing" these Children of Afghan Refugees, born in Pakistan, at the very least will change the whole dynamic. It is like a second migration to the Land who's meaning is suppose to be La ilaha illallah. Also if you are afraid they will stay "tribal", Then the government can study the success stories and compare them with the stories of failure. see what has worked. Where did Assimilation work, and where did it fail. For the time being, give these people, born in Pakistan some kind of Legal status, so they can seek an education, health care, and employment on equal terms.

Here is a couple videos on Mexican American Assimilation for comparison

 

[TMA]

The history of the Subcontinent has been of fiercely independent states rising up in rebellion of any empire that tries to keep them under its rule. The diversity of the people, stemming originally from their various ethnic origins (all the way back to the days of Harrapa and The Aryan invasion), belies a loyalty to ones kin above all else.

To Quote a Pakistani Pashtun saying I remember from a old news article:
"There is a famous Pakistani Pashtun quote: "I am a Pakistani for 50 years, a Muslim for 1,500 years and a Pashtun for 5,000 years.""
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ancien...jewish-community-once-thrived-in-afghanistan/

The question you should not ask is will these 3-4 Million Afghanis born in Pakistan over the last 40 years be loyal to Pakistan? Why are the current 30-40 million Pakistani Pashtuns loyal to Pakistan? For all intents and purposes, the 3-4 million Pakistan born Afghanis are Pakistani in all but Identity card. They know more of Karachi then Kabul or Kandahar.

If they marry Afghans from their ancestral tribe, and bring them to Pakistan, and have "Afghan" babies, What will These babies say they are, if They go to Pakistani Schools, are included in every way in the Culture, and are on equal footing with their neighbors. Remember, our cultures are not all that different as those of say the US and Mexico where you can see 2nd and 3rd generation Mexican Americans are assimilating when holding legal status. Children of Illegal Mexican Immigrants stay in the shadows, and their children, having grown up in fear, don't assimilate.

This is why "naturalizing" these Children of Afghan Refugees, born in Pakistan, at the very least will change the whole dynamic. It is like a second migration to the Land who's meaning is suppose to be La ilaha illallah. Also if you are afraid they will stay "tribal", Then the government can study the success stories and compare them with the stories of failure. see what has worked. Where did Assimilation work, and where did it fail. For the time being, give these people, born in Pakistan some kind of Legal status, so they can seek an education, health care, and employment on equal terms.

Here is a couple videos on Mexican American Assimilation for comparison

It matters not what they say. Of course they will say we are Pakistanis and we "believe" in Pakistan. It is in their material interests to do that even if they have lived in Pakistan since birth. I understand this. But my point is that it needs more the mere words to back it up. Stop looking at it from a refugee perspective. Look at it from a national Pakistani perspective.
You have an anti Pakistani government and really an anti Pakistan state in Afghanistan (except for a few years). They will naturally wish to take advantage of the "split-loyalties". It is not difficult to understand this.

Bottom line: If Afghanistan and Pakistan have another border skirmish which happens every year....where will the Afghan refugee's loyalty lie?
If an Afghan volunteers for military service than he has backed up his word.

Pakistani ought not to look at what the US does and just copy it. Pakistan needs to look out for herself.


I am more amenable to give them a better legal status than refugee...to allow for tax purposes and a more just employment...but to give citizenship is to add another threat to the State of Pakistan. But still repatriation should be on the table. Pakistan has her own poor to help.

Pakistan has a problem in convincing some of its OWN citizens about Pakistan. There is no bloody point adding Afghan refugees to the list. A father's duty is first and foremost to his children even if they are unruly....

 

[FuturePAF]

It matters not what they say. Of course they will say we are Pakistanis and we "believe" in Pakistan. It is in their material interests to do that even if they have lived in Pakistan since birth. I understand this. But my point is that it needs more the mere words to back it up. Stop looking at it from a refugee perspective. Look at it from a national Pakistani perspective.
You have an anti Pakistani government and really an anti Pakistan state in Afghanistan (except for a few years). They will naturally wish to take advantage of the "split-loyalties". It is not difficult to understand this.

Bottom line: If Afghanistan and Pakistan have another border skirmish which happens every year....where will the Afghan refugee's loyalty lie?
If an Afghan volunteers for military service than he has backed up his word.

Pakistani ought not to look at what the US does and just copy it. Pakistan needs to look out for herself.


I am more amenable to give them a better legal status than refugee...to allow for tax purposes and a more just employment...but to give citizenship is to add another threat to the State of Pakistan. But still repatriation should be on the table. Pakistan has her own poor to help.

Pakistan has a problem in convincing some of its OWN citizens about Pakistan. There is no bloody point adding Afghan refugees to the list. A father's duty is first and foremost to his children even if they are unruly....

I see your point. I will reverse my position, and compromise, that some form of legal status, denoting their birth in Pakistan is safer then outright giving them citizenship. Pakistan has a lot on its plate, and the Northern Alliance led Afghan Government is no friend of Pakistan. Identifying these residents as Afghans nationals is a safer position. Collecting taxes and encouraging fair employment rights should be what create a level playing field for Pakistani Nationals. the Peshawar merchants and traders have complained the Afghans don't pay taxes and operate illegally. Requiring them to operate legally if granted a permit, and making them pay taxes equal to what Pakistanis pay, to be granted this permanent resident status card can be a bargain. If they don't want to comply, then they have the option to leave Pakistan.

 

[TMA]

I see your point. I will reverse my position, and compromise, that some form of legal status, denoting their birth in Pakistan is safer then outright giving them citizenship. Pakistan has a lot on its plate, and the Northern Alliance led Afghan Government is no friend of Pakistan. Identifying these residents as Afghans nationals is a safer position. Collecting taxes and encouraging fair employment rights should be what create a level playing field for Pakistani Nationals. the Peshawar merchants and traders have complained the Afghans don't pay taxes and operate illegally. Requiring them to operate legally if granted a permit, and making them pay taxes equal to what Pakistanis pay, to be granted this permanent resident status card can be a bargain. If they don't want to comply, then they have the option to leave Pakistan.

Or if they are illegal just repatriate them. Those who are genuine can have a legal status.
There is a time to show mercy and there is a time to show ruthlessness...I pray Pakistan has the wisdom to understand this....otherwise Pakistan will be no more....

 

[El Sidd]

otherwise Pakistan will be no more....

Did Imran Hossein tell you this?