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Chinese & Indians in old Arab travelers' accounts

Enemy

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I have been rereading the 9th Century Arab travelers’ accounts of China that I read almost eight years ago. There I found some descriptions of Chinese, Arabs as well as Indians, as the ancient Arab seafarers also visited India en-route. I thought I should share them with you and start a discussion. In 800 AD, the Arab merchants sailed to as far as China to carry out peaceful trade. China was to them a new world which they observed with curiosity. In 1118 AD, Arabs imported gun powder from China (a mixture of potassium nitrate, sulphur and charcoal) and invented the artillery pieces. Thankfully, the Arab merchants were educated enough to note down their observations in their accounts which today help us construct a reliable picture of China’s past as seen through the eyes of foreigners.

Well, this is my short introductory note. I don’t want to make it lengthy. So let us have a look at some of their observations.

The ancient Arab travelers’ accounts were translated by Renaudot in the book titled, The Chinese Repository, Vol. I, 1832. It is available on internet.

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What I found very interesting is that the Arab travelers had found the Chinese, I quote, “the Chinese are more handsome than the Indians, and come nearer to the Arabs, not only in countenance, but in their dress, in their way of riding, in their manners, and in their processional ceremonies.”

See this on page 14.

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Well, the Arabs were full of admiration of Chinese beauty and described the Chinese handsomer than Indians but what is striking is that they found the Chinese appearing closer to the Arabs themselves in terms of countenance or physiognomy! Did the Arabs look like Chinese in those days? We don’t know, we can’t know and we don’t have a time machine to go back to that period to have a peek.

History is full of mystery, isn’t it?

The Arabs also compared the Chinese with Indians. We see that the Indians surpassed the Chinese in sciences, particularly, astronomy. Not only that, they also observed that the Indians taught the Chinese, as the Chinese themselves believed, religion, particularly idol worship. Let me quote, “the Chinese have no sciences, and their religion, and most of their laws, derived from the Indians” and that the “Indians taught them the worship of idols and consider them (Chinese) as a very religious nation.” However, the Arabs also noted that the Indians and Chinese “differ in many points touching the precepts of their religion.”

Page 15

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Then, we see that the Arabs also observed similarities between Indians and Chinese as both of them did not marry within their own tribes and were not satisfied with one wife as well as how the Chinese worshiped idols, prayed to them and fell down before the idols.

Page 15

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This proves that the Indians had taught the Chinese religious practices which were Sinicized as soon as the Chinese adopted it.

But how could the Arabs and the Chinese have similar countenance? Arabia was yet to be conquered by Chenghiz Khan’s Mongol army!

Please share your thoughts.
 
I highly doubt India "taught" Chinese the art of governing, considering the fact that we entered the age of absolute monarchy before Jesus is even born and the religion comment is true in some sense. China has always been a secular nation, even in the ancient time. So religion doesn't really have much impact on Chinese government, unlike the Arabic and Indian nations.

BTW, these Arabs are merchants. They are used to deal with laborers and other merchants, who are pretty much on the bottom of the social ladder.
 
I think they had pretty independent and balanced view, no appeasement to anyone. The book is available, google it and read the account, you will know so many things you didn't know.
 
The accounts of the Arabs provide a viewpoint but the sheer size of both India and China ensure that no travelers in the 8th century could completely capture the 2 cultures. I am sure both the civilizations learned a lot from each other - there is nothing surprising in that.
 
The accounts of the Arabs provide a viewpoint but the sheer size of both India and China ensure that no travelers in the 8th century could completely capture the 2 cultures. I am sure both the civilizations learned a lot from each other - there is nothing surprising in that.

Of course, India and China have something in common. If you would like to understand both per logic, take a look at the FP of each.
 
China was considered a rich place with treasures while Hindostan was considered a uncivilized jungle people... Truth hurts.
 
Ibn Batuta actually took a deeper look into Indian and China as he spent a considerable amount of time here!His accounts are more accurate and interesting!
 
A text written during the lead up to the first Opium war by the British based on unverifiable anecdotal evidence from arabs in the 9th century. Its propaganda 19th century style.

Then again, China's inventions only revolutionise everybody's lives and was always regarded as leap and bounds ahead in science during its dynastic era. When the Roman empire was expanding through conquest, the Chinese Han dynasty already had a tributary system where they could make others into vassal states without drawing an arrow. On contray, its just conveniently that India has no primary historical records of when it was even considered a united state.

In a nut shell, do you believe this 1830s piece based off third party anecdotes, or the findings of modern day historians who have dug up ancient texts and artifacts.
 
NIce thread !!
,,,few cheerleaders already trying to spoil the thread

I dont know if u had seen the documentary on Dwarka,,is not please watch it ,,
It dates some 32000 yrs before Jesus ,,,,

I am sure then all were Good,,China,India ,Afgan,,,all were secular :)



I highly doubt India "taught" Chinese the art of governing, considering the fact that we entered the age of absolute monarchy before Jesus is even born and the religion comment is true in some sense. China has always been a secular nation, even in the ancient time. So religion doesn't really have much impact on Chinese government, unlike the Arabic and Indian nations.

BTW, these Arabs are merchants. They are used to deal with laborers and other merchants, who are pretty much on the bottom of the social ladder.
 
WTF! Chinese laws derived from Indians? hahahah! :mps::mps:

The most interesting thing I've heard this year.....
 
WTF! Chinese laws derived from Indians? hahahah! :mps::mps:

The most interesting thing I've heard this year.....

Proximity between our nations makes interaction between cultures inevitable. While the himalayas may have impeded travel across the land to an extent--no such restrictions apply to sea lanes.
 
Proximity between our nations makes interaction between cultures inevitable. While the himalayas may have impeded travel across the land to an extent--no such restrictions apply to sea lanes.

From my previous knowledge, China had established diplomatic relations with south east Asian nations through sea lanes in ancient times. But we seldom have connections with India even by sea lane, though it's true that Chinese explorer Zhenghe had been to Indian Ocean.
 
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