China faces barriers in the Indian Ocean

[notorious_eagle]

same goes for USA who dominated these waters when Asian Countries didn't even had much of a thing called Navy.but if you compare their fleet in IOR with others now,they neither dominate,nor rule these waters.

The US Navy still dominates the IOR. They might not have a continuous presence in the region, but if push comes to shove they can deploy their assets within hours. You are underestimating the level of sophistication and mobility the US Navy possesses. There is no regional challenger whether its China, India or Russia that has the capability, sophistication and most importantly the firepower required to take on the likes of US Navy. They are decades ahead of the rest of the world. The show of force in 1995 against China made it clear that the US Navy can deploy and maintain its operations in any part of the world within hours notice.

Diego Garcia is a Support Base.and its going to be closed soon.

And who told you that? Diego Garcia is an unsinkable aircraft carrier for the US, they will never close that base down. It might be a support base right now but it can be converted into a full fledge FOB within hours. This base allows the US to maintain a foothold in IOR, thus this air base is not going anywhere. This airbase allows the USAF to bring in its awesome air power closer to its enemies if things get out of control.

as for Indian Navy as "Weak",we possess 2 carriers,some 140 surface combatants and others.we've a massive Coast Guard whose retired ships our neighbours operate with pride.you call that a "Weak",while 1/2 ships which PLAN can spare for anti piracy in IOR(and its only presence of PLAN in IOR) as strong??????

It depends who is the enemy. If its the US Navy, than God help you all. If its China, than IN is well equipped to handle the Chinese threat in IOR just like the PLAN is well equipped to handle threat from India in SCS.

 

[UKBengali]

t the composite mate

don't draw early conclusion.

Type-52 used extensive amount of western parts like Fire control radar,engines etc.other ships are based on this...

Type 052 destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kj-2000,used on IL-76,somewhat based on canceled deal of A-50 and Phalcon.nobody knows for sure,but strong suspecion over Israel,who even gave secrets of Python missiles to them.

J-10,based on Lavi,Israel.even Russia took part in it.even Russian engineers admitted it that it incorporates several techs from Lavi.

WS-10A is the project which just showed how painful and time consuming it is to make a product.you can observe that China already showed some 2-3 stealth jets within years.but how come China made so many while Russia is struggling with one and France don't even has one???these are major arms producer.yet they are trailing decades from China in stealth tech??Suspicion never arouses from nothing.plus,so many data theft reporting suggests only one direction.and thats not North Korea.

but even then,I admire their lightning progress.

Come-on, you are getting desperate here.

Maybe you can say something about the J-10 but certainly not the Type-052D destroyer or the KJ-2000 AWACS.

Russia is not very good at the composite airframe technology and hence is finding it difficult with airframe for PAK-FA and France just does not have the money.

Stealth tech? Everyone knows that 80% of stealth comes from shaping and the Chinese just took the inspiration from the US.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

This thread is about China, to continue ...I think China will have the bright future in this region, pipeline from Myanmar to Kunming, then next Gwadar to Kashgar in near future, building sea port in Sri lanka, and possible enlarge or upgrate Chitaagong. Chinese cooperation with SA countries are very dynamic and oustanding, a win-win deal that has made Indians so envious and nervous presumely because they've lost geopolitical influence in this region...so hoping to set barrier to China either with military build up or cozy Vetnam and Japan and hoping that we will back down to comply to their request to leave Indian Ocean and SA countries...They're just too naive....we're there to stay even without a base.

 

[Yeti]

Project Varsha will be India's Eastern Naval command and in future hold the many Arihant subs we are building, not to mention we also have island forward bases near the Malacca strait.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Come-on, you are getting desperate here.

Maybe you can say something about the J-10 but certainly not the Type-052D destroyer or the KJ-2000 AWACS.

Russia is not very good at the composite airframe technology and hence is finding it difficult with airframe for PAK-FA and France just does not have the money.

Stealth tech? Everyone knows that 80% of stealth comes from shaping and the Chinese just took the inspiration from the US.

I posted Type-52,hope you've read it.....
about AWACS,nobody knows for sure.may be they made it(not a big deal.India made it.any defence majors can build one).but that AWACS came after their cancelled deal of Phalcon.

Unsupported claims of an impending buy of the Russian Beriev A-50U or A-50E continued, until photographs emerged on the Internet during the 2003 period showing what was clearly an A-50 like AEW&C being flown from the Central Flight Test Establishment at Nanjing.

There has been some speculation that the PRC may be attempting to clone the Israeli Phalcon system using indigenous technology. Given that L-band radio frequency power transistors of suitable ratings are available commercially, cloning is feasible and entirely consistent with the long running PLA policy of concurrently developing indigenous products while importing foreign equivalents. An L-band array Transmit-Receive module design of suitable performance and configuration could be used for both the A-50 system and the smaller Y-8 design, sharing most of the system hardware and software. A least one image exists of a ground based antenna testing rig, built up as an AESA radome and mount on top of a mast on a larger building.

PLA-AF Airborne Early Warning & Control Programs

about stealth tech,I don't want to spill any beans,as it is old news....

Top Official Admits F-35 Stealth Fighter Secrets Stolen « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

Chengdu J-20: China used downed US fighter to develop first stealth jet | Mail Online

The US Navy still dominates the IOR. They might not have a continuous presence in the region, but if push comes to shove they can deploy their assets within hours. You are underestimating the level of sophistication and mobility the US Navy possesses. There is no regional challenger whether its China, India or Russia that has the capability, sophistication and most importantly the firepower required to take on the likes of US Navy. They are decades ahead of the rest of the world. The show of force in 1995 against China made it clear that the US Navy can deploy and maintain its operations in any part of the world within hours notice.

USA is an expeditionary force.they're the sole remaining superpower and has strong presence around the world.yes,they can deploy CBG as well as Air assets within days,if not hours.in that respect,no corner of earth is excluded from their dominance.but what they lack here is a firm presence in this region.

 

[UKBengali]

I posted Type-52,hope you've read it.....
about AWACS,nobody knows for sure.may be they made it(not a big deal.India made it.any defence majors can build one).but that AWACS came after their cancelled deal of Phalcon.






PLA-AF Airborne Early Warning & Control Programs

about stealth tech,I don't want to spill any beans,as it is old news....

Top Official Admits F-35 Stealth Fighter Secrets Stolen « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

Chengdu J-20: China used downed US fighter to develop first stealth jet | Mail Online

End of the day it is all speculation and nothing concrete.

The J-10, btw, cannot be a copy of the Lavi since it is a much larger plane and the there are some subtle differences in the airframe. The fly-by-wire software would have to be radically different to accommodate the differences. If it was copied or had significant technology transfer from the Lavi, then it seems strange that the radar is not at all similar. You may want to look at the cancelled J-9 to see where the influence may have come from.

I am not saying that the Chinese did not use other aircraft and weapons as inspiration to design their own, but what counts is that they are able to independently produce these weapons systems and the fact that they do buy anything apart from engines from Russia, when coupled with their recent SAM win in Turkey, means that they are finally on the threshold of building a cutting-edge weapons industry.

 

[jarves]

India is the 2nd fastest growing nation in the world and a BRIC nation.
Tell me how we are not catching up or done nothing in 20 years?



View attachment 13339

 

[Ceonwulf]

now its time to educate you....

European powers ruled the Asian "Empire" even by 1990s.best example was Hong Kong.but how many resources they could keep in this region to control it??Even by WW II,Britain could spare 2 warships to protect Singapore,Jewel of their Empire.thats the level of their "Power Projection".and thats shows the vulnerability of their strategy.when one face hostility in the next door,it can't protect their interest half a world away.

British Navy now have near zero presence in IOR.hell,they couldn't even keep their present level of force and will fall dramatically,making a single or zero carrier.

India has some 180 Surface Combatants.

List of active Indian Navy ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no country can spare so much resources to project power in IOR.Neither USA,nor China..

yes we've older platforms.hell,every navy possesses that kind of platform.even your navy possess old nuclear subs and frigates/destroyers.but then again,who am I kidding with.

You cant even structure a sentence properly, yet you are going to "educate" me?

I am sorry, but I have to laugh at and ignore your first paragraph regarding Hong Kong, Singapore and your assertion that Britain had no power projection in the Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean region! Because funnily enough, at its peak strength during WW2, the Royal Navy had over 16 aircraft carriers, 5 battleships, 19 cruisers, 39 submarines and 80+ destroyers (and frigates) deployed in the Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean region (source: British Imperial War Museum). But hey, don't let fact's get in the way of your misguided delusions.

Today the Royal Navy maintains standing deployments in the Gulf and wider Indian Ocean. The deployments consists of several highly modern destroyers and frigates, a fleet of mine countermeasure vessels and several RFA replenishment ships (including an amphibious warfare ship and Royal marines). That is not a "near zero presence", to me that is a significant and powerful presence! Also remember that the Royal Navy can surge a large expeditionary task force to the Indian Ocean at any time if it wants. The French maintain a similar presence in the Indian Ocean and the Americans have an entire Carrier Battle Group permanently stationed in the Indian Ocean Region. All three of these countries combined are allies and dominate the Indian Ocean.

No, you are absolutely wrong. The Indian Navy does not have "180 Surface Combatants". The link to Wikipedia (List of active Indian Navy ships) also includes vessels such as small tug boats, sail boats and river/coastal barges. Personally I don't think you are a very intelligent person, because even an idiot with half a brain knows that a tug boat is not a surface combatant! Therefore I will say it again, India only has 2 small second hand aircraft carriers, 23 (mostly) obsolescent destroyers and frigates, 14 obsolescent submarines and 1 ex-USN landing platform dock. That is a very small and weak navy.

The Chinese Navy is replacing all of its older ships and submarines so fast that even the Americans are inspired with awe. It wont be long untill our navy is ultra modern. However, remember that we have over 70 destroyers and frigates, over 60 submarines and are planning for a future class of 100,000 tonne aircraft carriers. Our navy is so much larger than your little weak Indian Navy.

In my opinion, the Indian Navy is in the same rank as the Italian Navy. While Russia, Britain, USA, Japan, France, China and possibly Germany all have more powerful navies than India.

Even South Korea has more modern and powerful surface combatants than India.

China and Pakistan will soon sink the Indian Navy anyway... wont be long now.

 

[GR!FF!N]

End of the day it is all speculation and nothing concrete.

The J-10, btw, cannot be a copy of the Lavi since it is a much larger plane and the there are some subtle differences in the airframe. The fly-by-wire software would have to be radically different to accommodate the differences. If it was copied or had significant technology transfer from the Lavi, then it seems strange that the radar is not at all similar. You may want to look at the cancelled J-9 to see where the influence may have come from.

I am not saying that the Chinese did not use other aircraft and weapons as inspiration to design their own, but what counts is that they are able to independently produce these weapons systems and the fact that they do buy anything apart from engines from Russia, when coupled with their recent SAM win in Turkey, means that they are finally on the threshold of building a cutting-edge weapons industry.

nobody knows the details of how much J-10 is based on Lavi and what part they copied.I just posted the statement of Russian Experts who helped China to build J-10.

as for "Indigenisation",I'm referring you to the comments of senior members in the thread

The Tejas light combat aircraft, 30 years in the making, is just 60% indigenous as of now.

which even you've visited and posted.just go and read what other Senior and Elite members has said..

 

[GR!FF!N]

Royal Navy had over 16 aircraft carriers, 5 battleships, 19 cruisers, 39 submarines and 80+ destroyers/frigates deployed in the Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean (source: British Imperial War Museum). But hey, don't let fact's get in the way of your misguided delusions.

yet,they could field only 2 destroyers against Japan in Singapore,HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales..and later,lost its carrier Hermes in Tricomalee..and if it was not USA,they couldn't even break out blockade set up by Germany...I'm extremeley sorry,but I laugh about "Such a Grand Fleet" which remained in its country just to protect its @$$ and only fought in the western theater during WW II..is that what you're calling "Dominating IOR"????

Today the Royal Navy maintains standing deployments in the Gulf and wider Indian Ocean. It consists of several highly modern destroyers and frigates, a fleet of mine countermeasure vessels and several RFA replenishment ships (including an amphibious warfare ship and Royal marines). That is not a "near zero presence". Also remember that the Royal Navy can surge a large expeditionary task force to the Indian Ocean at any time. The French maintain a similar presence in the Indian Ocean as the British and the Americans have an entire Carrier Battle Group permanently stationed in the Indian Ocean Region. All three of these countries combined are allies and dominate the Indian Ocean.

lets again educate you about about the fleet size of various countries.

Britain will be lucky if they get one Queen Elizabeth type Carrier operational.even if they get one,it'll not before 2020 when they'll get it.they have other surface combatants,yes.but in IOR???for friendly port visits only.Expeditionary Force???Britain is loosing enough sleep by even thinking about another invasion by Argentina in Folkland,cause,they might not field another carrier to retrieve it.

France???they field their carrier and surface combatants in Anti Piracy mission and Nato missions.force projection??zilch.hell,I don't even remember a joint mission or war game or a port visit by French Navy with India within decades.they've a Expeditionary force,and yes,quite effective one.but ruling the IOR??No.

USA???Foremost protector.they protects part of IOR as well as Gulf and Arabian Sea using Fifth Fleet.they've massive force projection and massive Expeditionary Force.but sadly,leaving the sole major base by 2016.only presence in IOR after 2016 will be COCOS Island(Drone Base).

No, you are absolutely wrong. The Indian Navy does not have "180 Surface Combatants". The link to Wikipedia (List of active Indian Navy ships) also includes vessels such as small tug boats, sail boats and river/coastal barges. Personally I don't think you are a very intelligent person, because even an idiot with half a brain knows that a tug boat is not a surface combatant! Therefore I will say it again, India only has 2 small second hand aircraft carriers, 23 (mostly) obsolescent destroyers and frigates, 14 obsolescent submarines and 1 ex-USN landing platform dock. That is a very small and weak navy.

personally,I think you're a moron and thats too common in Chenese members.I said 140,wiki said 180 with "OTHER AUXILIARY SHIPS".Surface Combatants includes two aircraft carriers, one amphibious transport dock, 9 Landing ship tanks, 8 destroyers, 15 frigates, one nuclear-powered attack submarine, 14 conventionally-powered attack submarines, 24 corvettes, 7 mine countermeasure vessels, 30 patrol vessels and others.

no other country in IOR has similar strength,nor anybody could hope to field better than this,including Expeditionary forces and that includes USA and China.neitherr Destroyers and Frigates are obsolete,nor submarines are.PLAN still uses Subs which are atleast a decade older than oldest sub in IN.same goes for destroyers and frigates.

there is more than 34 new warships making/in order.this list is old,but might educate you anyway...

Current order book of Indian Navy, Indian Coast Guard and recent deliveries

The Chinese Navy is replacing all of its older ships and submarines so fast that even the Americans are inspired with awe. It wont be long untill our navy is ultra modern. However, remember that we have over 70 destroyers and frigates, over 60 submarines and are planning for a future class of 100,000 tonne aircraft carriers. Our navy is so much larger than your little weak Indian Navy.
In my opinion, the Indian Navy is in the same rank as the Italian Navy. While Russia, Britain, USA, Japan, France, China and possibly Germany all have more powerful navies than India.
Even South Korea has more modern and powerful surface combatants than India.
China and Pakistan will soon sink the Indian Navy anyway... wont be long now.

yup,ultra modern,ultra powerful,yet concentrated in SCS and Pacific.100000 tonne AC??you're making fun of PLAN.even Chinese members denied that rumour.as for super powerful PLAN,sure,why not.if you think a 3 carrier Navy with 140 Surface Combatants are small,I can't help it.but remember,IN'll retain most carriers only behind USN by then(if PLAN couldn't build 3 by then).as for your rating of "Powerful Navy",I just f@@rted.

 

[Shinigami]

The Chinese Navy is replacing all of its older ships and submarines so fast that even the Americans are inspired with awe. It wont be long untill our navy is ultra modern. However, remember that we have over 70 destroyers and frigates, over 60 submarines and are planning for a future class of 100,000 tonne aircraft carriers. Our navy is so much larger than your little weak Indian Navy.
In my opinion, the Indian Navy is in the same rank as the Italian Navy. While Russia, Britain, USA, Japan, France, China and possibly Germany all have more powerful navies than India.
Even South Korea has more modern and powerful surface combatants than India.
China and Pakistan will soon sink the Indian Navy anyway... wont be long now.

it seems that food as well as the toys in china are spiked with lead
love the bots and their delusions of grandeur

kid, indian navy is not a copy paste junkyard tech like PLAN. it is a battle hardened force that sunk destroyers frigates, mine sweepers, submarines, munition and supply vessel, bombed harbours, airfields, using missiles and aircraft carriers while the chinese where trying to figure out the switches in their russian knockoffs

 

[jaiind]

Japan is useless, and u keep sticking with Israel ok?

Japs are new partners for India. Israel is our second brother for India after Russia . you got it??

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Japs are new partners for India. Israel is our second brother for India after Russia . you got it??

Indeed, Russia is big brother, Israel is second and India is happen to be the junor

 

[The Archnazi]

You're still not get over with 1962 sickness let alone to talk about next war with China

''Revenge is sweet''

 

[Shinigami]

You're still not get over with 1962 sickness let alone to talk about next war with China

what? :O
its you guys who keep saying 1962 like parrots(or bots )?