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# Source: Global Times
# [08:22 March 18 2011]
As the two biggest developing countries, India and China are often put under comparison. How does China view India's rise? Is the development of China and India a zero-sum game? Global Times (GT) reporter Yu Jincui talked to Ma Jiali (Ma), an expert on Sino-India relations and executive deputy director of Centre for Strategic Studies of China Reform Forum, on these issues. His new book Rising India is released by Shandong University Press recently.
GT:How do you view India's rise? What can China learn from it?
Ma: India has maintained a good momentum of development in these years. Its annual economic growth rate has been kept at around 8 percent. For a large economy, such a growth rate is very rare.
India has found a reasonable development path based on its own situation. It focuses on expanding domestic demand, strives to develop the service industry and concentrates especially on the IT sector.
In the past, India had a regulated or semi-regulated economy and set many constraints on economic development, but with the deepening of economic liberalization, the Indian government has gradually relaxed its control over the economy.
India has a set of relatively sound economic laws and regulations, under which its economy is smoothly operated.
It also has strict financial management. Gaining loans from banks must undergo rigorous assessment and be in accordance with strict procedures, so India's bad debts ratio is quite low for a developing country. Moreover, it pays special attention to avoiding financial corruption.
GT: Out of environmental protection concerns, China has lowered its economic growth rate target to 7 percent for the next five years. Some Indian media optimistically claimed that the economic growth rate of India would surely surpass that of China in 2011. Why is India so keen on comparisons with China?
Ma: China and India have many similarities. The two both have a large population and the level of their economic and social development is relatively low.
Since Chinese economy has made great achievements through 30 years of development, it is quite understandable that India takes China as a competitor. However, in an atmosphere where the West deliberately praises India while bad-mouthing China, some Indians have an irrationally competitive mentality toward China.
It is a reflection of China's confidence that it lowers the economic growth rate target. In the past, China blindly chased development speed while ignoring environmental protection. Now it actively confines the development speed and develops sustainable economy, which is worthy of recognition.
We don't rule out the possibility that India's growth rate can overtake China's, for the potential of Indian economic development is very large.
However, India itself should consider how to realize sustainable development and how to maintain a lasting growth momentum.
China is willing to see India's rapid development, since there will be more opportunities for the two to cooperate.
For example, the rapid development of India requires massive infrastructure construction. China has abundant experience in this regard and Chinese project contract services are popular in India due to their low cost, high efficiency and brief construction periods.
GT: For Sino-Indian economic relations, you advocate "competitive cooperation." What should China and India do to realize this?
Ma: Cooperation between China and India is more than competition in the economic field.
The bilateral economic cooperation and trade increased sharply in the past two decades. The trade volume between China and India was only $200 million in 1991, but now it has reached over $60 billion.
China and India complement each other economically. And they are confronted with similar development problems. For example, China and India both depend on external energy sources and the two once fiercely competed with each other over these sources.
But now, China and India have learned lessons and enhanced energy cooperation, such as jointly bidding for oil and gas in Iran, Myanmar and Syria.
GT: China announced on March 4 that the defense budget in 2011 would increase by 12.7 percent to 601.1 billion yuan. Some Indian media worry that the budget increase will put military pressure on India. How do you view this?
Ma: China's defense increase is totally out of safeguarding our national interests. China is facing a challenging security environment.
Besides, the ratio of Chinese defense budget to GDP is lower than that of India. India is often over-worried about China's defense budget increases. China will not take India as a strategic target.
Sino-India military communications were suspended last year, but we hope the two can resume communication as soon as possible and build more mutual trust in the military area.
GT: The territorial dispute and the 1962 border war between India and China have been obstacles for the development of the Sino-Indian relationship. They shadow the sentiments of Indians toward China. How will this affect future Sino-India relations?
Ma: We should make it clear that Sino-Indian boundary has never been officially demarcated. China hopes to solve the territorial disputes through talks based on respect for history, reality and the national sentiments of both sides.
The majority of Indian people hold a friendly attitude toward China. However, in recent years, some right-wing media have drummed up anti-Chinese feelings. But in general, the Indian government could calmly and rationally handle the bilateral issues.
GT: The US is shifting its strategic focus to Asia and it supports India in containing China in Asia. How do you view its influences on Sino-India relationship?
Ma: The US does have the strategic intent to use India to contain China, as we can learn from some US official documents.
But we should see that India is independent on its foreign policy. There are voices against the US in India, and some Indian intellectuals know clearly that the US "kindness" to India has a strategic intent.
GT: Since China and India are the two biggest developing countries in Aisa, some argue that the development of the two countries is a zero-sum game, how do you view this?
Ma: I don't agree. The development of China and India is not a zero-sum game, but could be a win-win situation. Indian Premier Manmohan Singh once said that Asia has enough room to accommodate the development of both China and India.
There will be conflicts and competition between China and India, but there are also many fields and areas in which the two can cooperate.
GT: What can China and India do to improve the discourse power of developing countries in the international stage?
Ma: There are many areas for China and India to cooperate in international affairs. China and India could enhance cooperation on global governance, especially in the fields of food security, energy security and climate change.
The two have extensive mutual interests in climate change cooperation. In the future, they could cooperate more on these areas to safeguard the interests of developing countries.
# [08:22 March 18 2011]
As the two biggest developing countries, India and China are often put under comparison. How does China view India's rise? Is the development of China and India a zero-sum game? Global Times (GT) reporter Yu Jincui talked to Ma Jiali (Ma), an expert on Sino-India relations and executive deputy director of Centre for Strategic Studies of China Reform Forum, on these issues. His new book Rising India is released by Shandong University Press recently.
GT:How do you view India's rise? What can China learn from it?
Ma: India has maintained a good momentum of development in these years. Its annual economic growth rate has been kept at around 8 percent. For a large economy, such a growth rate is very rare.
India has found a reasonable development path based on its own situation. It focuses on expanding domestic demand, strives to develop the service industry and concentrates especially on the IT sector.
In the past, India had a regulated or semi-regulated economy and set many constraints on economic development, but with the deepening of economic liberalization, the Indian government has gradually relaxed its control over the economy.
India has a set of relatively sound economic laws and regulations, under which its economy is smoothly operated.
It also has strict financial management. Gaining loans from banks must undergo rigorous assessment and be in accordance with strict procedures, so India's bad debts ratio is quite low for a developing country. Moreover, it pays special attention to avoiding financial corruption.
GT: Out of environmental protection concerns, China has lowered its economic growth rate target to 7 percent for the next five years. Some Indian media optimistically claimed that the economic growth rate of India would surely surpass that of China in 2011. Why is India so keen on comparisons with China?
Ma: China and India have many similarities. The two both have a large population and the level of their economic and social development is relatively low.
Since Chinese economy has made great achievements through 30 years of development, it is quite understandable that India takes China as a competitor. However, in an atmosphere where the West deliberately praises India while bad-mouthing China, some Indians have an irrationally competitive mentality toward China.
It is a reflection of China's confidence that it lowers the economic growth rate target. In the past, China blindly chased development speed while ignoring environmental protection. Now it actively confines the development speed and develops sustainable economy, which is worthy of recognition.
We don't rule out the possibility that India's growth rate can overtake China's, for the potential of Indian economic development is very large.
However, India itself should consider how to realize sustainable development and how to maintain a lasting growth momentum.
China is willing to see India's rapid development, since there will be more opportunities for the two to cooperate.
For example, the rapid development of India requires massive infrastructure construction. China has abundant experience in this regard and Chinese project contract services are popular in India due to their low cost, high efficiency and brief construction periods.
GT: For Sino-Indian economic relations, you advocate "competitive cooperation." What should China and India do to realize this?
Ma: Cooperation between China and India is more than competition in the economic field.
The bilateral economic cooperation and trade increased sharply in the past two decades. The trade volume between China and India was only $200 million in 1991, but now it has reached over $60 billion.
China and India complement each other economically. And they are confronted with similar development problems. For example, China and India both depend on external energy sources and the two once fiercely competed with each other over these sources.
But now, China and India have learned lessons and enhanced energy cooperation, such as jointly bidding for oil and gas in Iran, Myanmar and Syria.
GT: China announced on March 4 that the defense budget in 2011 would increase by 12.7 percent to 601.1 billion yuan. Some Indian media worry that the budget increase will put military pressure on India. How do you view this?
Ma: China's defense increase is totally out of safeguarding our national interests. China is facing a challenging security environment.
Besides, the ratio of Chinese defense budget to GDP is lower than that of India. India is often over-worried about China's defense budget increases. China will not take India as a strategic target.
Sino-India military communications were suspended last year, but we hope the two can resume communication as soon as possible and build more mutual trust in the military area.
GT: The territorial dispute and the 1962 border war between India and China have been obstacles for the development of the Sino-Indian relationship. They shadow the sentiments of Indians toward China. How will this affect future Sino-India relations?
Ma: We should make it clear that Sino-Indian boundary has never been officially demarcated. China hopes to solve the territorial disputes through talks based on respect for history, reality and the national sentiments of both sides.
The majority of Indian people hold a friendly attitude toward China. However, in recent years, some right-wing media have drummed up anti-Chinese feelings. But in general, the Indian government could calmly and rationally handle the bilateral issues.
GT: The US is shifting its strategic focus to Asia and it supports India in containing China in Asia. How do you view its influences on Sino-India relationship?
Ma: The US does have the strategic intent to use India to contain China, as we can learn from some US official documents.
But we should see that India is independent on its foreign policy. There are voices against the US in India, and some Indian intellectuals know clearly that the US "kindness" to India has a strategic intent.
GT: Since China and India are the two biggest developing countries in Aisa, some argue that the development of the two countries is a zero-sum game, how do you view this?
Ma: I don't agree. The development of China and India is not a zero-sum game, but could be a win-win situation. Indian Premier Manmohan Singh once said that Asia has enough room to accommodate the development of both China and India.
There will be conflicts and competition between China and India, but there are also many fields and areas in which the two can cooperate.
GT: What can China and India do to improve the discourse power of developing countries in the international stage?
Ma: There are many areas for China and India to cooperate in international affairs. China and India could enhance cooperation on global governance, especially in the fields of food security, energy security and climate change.
The two have extensive mutual interests in climate change cooperation. In the future, they could cooperate more on these areas to safeguard the interests of developing countries.
Yes, economy and trade is not a zero-sum game.
