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Chashma Nuclear Power Plant C-4 connected to national grid

340MW? A joke

Even our solar park are bigger than this at phase one 400MW

We need serious plants and Chinese now have home designed 1000MW and 2000MW plants why we picked the most tiny one ?

We need 20 of these




You cannot triple nuclear capacity and upgrade with existing infrastructure from a small one

From cooling, recycle and rods it would be almost impossible

Easier to build a new larger one

C-3 and C-4 recently made produces 680 MW's
C-5 will be of 1100 MW

While 2x1100 MW Nuclear Power Plants are already under construction at Karachi to be completed in 2021-22


News of 2014
8,900MW nuclear power generation planned

CHASHMA: Pakistan plans to have seven functional nuclear plants of 1,100MW each by 2030 in addition to four units of 300MW, producing a total of 8,900MW of electricity.

Chairman of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission Dr Ansar Parvez told newsmen on Wednesday at the Chashma Nuclear Power Complex, 280km southwest of Islamabad, that nuclear power was set to become a major player in the country’s power sector.

He was briefing journalists on the eve of the ‘dome-laying ceremony’ of Chashma-IV nuclear power plant, which will mark the completion of civil works at the unit and will be followed by installation of the reactor.

In addition to the four units at Chashma, two of which (Chashma-III and Chashma-IV) are expected to start commercial operations by 2016, the government has begun work on two 1,100MW plants (Kanupp-II and Kanupp-III) in Karachi, whose ground-breaking ceremony was performed in November.

Dr Parvez said that work on five more plants of 1,100MW each would commence in next 10 years. “The process for site selection of plants is continuing and with the passage of time indigenisation is increasing,” he said.

The country began its journey towards proficiency in nuclear energy in 1972. The PAEC chairman said the initial years were utilised in gaining experience in safe operation of plants, building confidence and acquiring technology. The platform, he underscored, was now ready for starting producing electricity from nuclear sources at a bigger scale.

“With more than 55 reactor-years of successful operating experience to its credit, the PAEC can confidently move from technology acquisition status to actually starting contributing sizeable electrical energy to the system,” he said.

Dr Parvez said units of 300MW would no longer be installed after completion of Chashma-IV. The Kanupp-I, the 125MW facility and the first one to be set up in the country, he said, would meanwhile be wound up after Kanupp-II became operational.

The design life of Kanupp-I ended in 2002 and the plant was re-licensed by the Pakistan Nuclear Regulatory Authority in 2004 after upgrades.

“The Kanupp-II and Kanupp-III will lay foundation of large-sized nuclear power plants,” he said.

He noted that availability of funds was not an issue for setting up more nuclear power plants, but agreed that there were no sources other than China from where the country could get reactors.

“Pakistan is facing a global policy of denial,” he added.

Speaking about safety, the PAEC chairman said it was a top priority for the country.
 
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340MW? A joke

Even our solar park are bigger than this at phase one 400MW

We need serious plants and Chinese now have home designed 1000MW and 2000MW plants why we picked the most tiny one ?

We need 20 of these

Nameplate capcity is different from actual production. Nuclear plants have the highest capacity factor, up to 90%. That means 100 MW plant will produce up to 90 MW on annualized basis. Solar photo voltaic plants are the worst. You would be lucky if the 100 MW Quaid e Azam Solar Park produces 20 MW on the annul basis.

Quote
The plant operates at 18.28% capacity; the capacity factor of the plant is subject to 0.7% annual degradation. Total energy generated during FY16 surpassed the benchmark energy by 6,792.59 MWh. Tariff for the years 1-10 is Rs. 19.0888 per kWh while the tariff for the years 11-25 is Rs. 7.1168 per kWh. Late payments by NEPRA shall bear interest at a rate equivalent to KIBOR plus 2%.

Unquote
https://www.qasolar.com/app/.../QA+solar+credit+rating+report-QASPL-2016.pdf?t...

According to this each year production drop, in the year 2 actual average production would only be 17.58 MW.
 
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340MW? A joke

Even our solar park are bigger than this at phase one 400MW

We need serious plants and Chinese now have home designed 1000MW and 2000MW plants why we picked the most tiny one ?

We need 20 of these




You cannot triple nuclear capacity and upgrade with existing infrastructure from a small one

From cooling, recycle and rods it would be almost impossible

Easier to build a new larger one
Quaid-e-Azam solar plant will produce 1000 MW when fully installed with pv panels. Prodicing 100 MW, but effeciency is not 100%.
And obviously no generation aftrr sunset.
Pakistan choose smaller nuclear plants just because of financial cost issues. Larger plants could be build as skills grows to build and maintain.
 
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Nameplate capcity is different from actual production. Nuclear plants have the highest capacity factor, up to 90%. That means 100 MW plant will produce up to 90 MW on annualized basis. Solar photo voltaic plants are the worst. You would be lucky if the 100 MW Quaid e Azam Solar Park produces 20 MW on the annul basis.

Quote
The plant operates at 18.28% capacity; the capacity factor of the plant is subject to 0.7% annual degradation. Total energy generated during FY16 surpassed the benchmark energy by 6,792.59 MWh. Tariff for the years 1-10 is Rs. 19.0888 per kWh while the tariff for the years 11-25 is Rs. 7.1168 per kWh. Late payments by NEPRA shall bear interest at a rate equivalent to KIBOR plus 2%.

Unquote
https://www.qasolar.com/app/.../QA+solar+credit+rating+report-QASPL-2016.pdf?t...

According to this each year production drop, in the year 2 actual average production would only be 17.58 MW.

Do you actually know what you are talking about

A solar 400MW plant means that is the instantaneous power which means if it ran for 1 hour it produces 400MWh

If it runs for 10-12 hours a day it's 10 x 400MW which is 4000MWh per day and so on you can calculate the yearly production

Quaid Azam solar park in Bahawalpur is actually a really efficient and effective project when it reaches full capacity to 1000MW

But this is not a comparison we need both nuclear and solar
 
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Do you actually know what you are talking about

A solar 400MW plant means that is the instantaneous power which means if it ran for 1 hour it produces 400MWh

If it runs for 10-12 hours a day it's 10 x 400MW which is 4000MWh per day and so on you can calculate the yearly production

Quaid Azam solar park in Bahawalpur is actually a really efficient and effective project when it reaches full capacity to 1000MW

But this is not a comparison we need both nuclear and solar


Honourable Sir,

It is not the question of whether I know what I am talking about or not. I do not make up the numbers from the ‘Air’ nor am I a clairvoyant. My info comes from the published sources such as:

Quote

NEWS ARTICLE

Quaid-e-Azam solar park fails to achieve its objectives


The Quaid-e-Azam solar park has failed to achieve its objectives as electricity is being generated just 18 MW against the capacity of 100 MW.

According to details, the government of PML-N has launched the Quaid-e-Azam solar park project with the cost of billions of rupees to end the power cuts in the country. This project planned to generate approximately 1000 MW of electricity and 100 MW in first phase.

Now the government has decided to sale this project.

When PM Nawaz Sharif has inaugurated this project, it was being generated about 50 MW of power on daily basis and the government sources claimed that approximately 80 MW electricity would be generated soon. But after sometimes, the project did not show remarkable performance and now its generating only 18 MW.

Sources said that this problem has created due to solar plates used in this project, which are of low quality. Some researchers have the view that mercury of the area should be 45 centigrade for the best performance of the solar power.

If mercury has increased as its performance would be affected, the researcher added.

The government has planned to sale out this project to facilitate its blue-eyed persons, sources concluded.

http://www.energycentral.com/news/quaid-e-azam-solar-park-fails-achieve-its-objectives
Unquote

A 400 MW solar panel plant would only produce 400 MW at the maximum sunlight time. It would produce zero at night less in the morning & evening. When calculated for the whole year running 24 hours a day ( annualized) basis 400 MW plant would only produce 72 MW whereas one 100 MW nuclear plant would produce 90 MW.

Nuclear plants have the highest capacity factor of about 90%, no other plant come close to it. For example Hydel power plant would only produce its maximum when the Dam is full as the water level drops, the power production drops as well.

I admit that I am not very bright and my understanding of the capacity factor comes from reading articles such as the following. If you think that my understanding is incorrect I would appreciate to know how one should calculate actual production efficiency of a power plant.

Quote

POWER PLANTS EFFICIENCY – CAPACITY UTILIZATION FACTOR

Power Plant life span can be calculated using Capacity Factor. Plant Capacity Factor is the key factor to estimate costing structure for the whole plant. This Article gives clarity on the Capacity Factor for the different power plant segments.

To calculate the capacity factor, take the total amount of energy the plant produced during a period of time and divide by the amount of energy the plant would have produced at full capacity.

Capacity factors vary greatly depending on the type of fuel that is used and the design of the plant. The capacity factor should not be confused with the availability factor, capacity credit (firm capacity) or with efficiency.

Conventional Power Plant

Thermal Power Plant Efficiency normally 60 - 65% [i.e Capacity Factor].

Example:

Thermal Power Plant capacity 4000MW [4 x 1000MW Units] produces energy yield as 2,17,24,800 MWh units [As an annual average generation], Now Calculate Plant Capacity Factor?

Formula :

Energy Estimated (Plant Generator Name plate capacity x 24 Hours x 365 Days )

For the above Project Capacity Factor as:

2,17,24,800 MW-h (4000 MW x 24 Hours x 365 Days)

2,17,24,800 MW-h x 100 3,50,40,000 MW-h

Capacity Factor as = 62 %.

2. Hydro Electric Power Plant

Hydro Electric Power Plant Efficiency normally 38 - 50% [i.e Capacity Factor].

Example:

Hydro Electric Power Plant capacity as 200MW [4 x 50MW Units] produces energy yield as 7,00,800 MWh units [As an annual average generation], Now Calculate Plant Capacity Factor?

Formula :

Energy Estimated (Plant Generator Name plate capacity x 24 Hours x 365 Days )

For the above Project Capacity Factor as:

7,00,800 MW-h (200 MW x 24 Hours x 365 Days)

7,00,800 MW-h x 100 17,52,000 MW-h

Capacity Factor as = 40 %.

3. Nuclear Power Plant

Nuclear Power Plant Efficiency normally 80 - 93% [i.e Capacity Factor].

Example:

Nuclear Power Plant capacity as 2400MW [3 x 800MW Units] produces energy yield as 1,68,19,200 MWh units [As an annual average generation], Now Calculate Plant Capacity Factor?

Formula :

Energy Estimated (Plant Generator Name plate capacity x 24 Hours x 365 Days )

For the above Project Capacity Factor as:

1,68,19,200 MW-h (2400 MW x 24 Hours x 365 Days)

1,68,19,200 MW-h x 100 2,10,24,000 MW-h

Capacity Factor as = 80 %.

Non- Conventional Power Plants:

1. Solar PV Plant


Solar PV Power Plant Efficiency normally 13 - 19% [i.e Capacity Factor].

Example:

Solar Power Plant capacity as 4MW produces energy yield as 5326.08 MWh units [As an annual average generation], Now Calculate Plant Capacity Factor?

Formula :

Energy Estimated (Plant Generator Name plate capacity x 24 Hours x 365 Days )

For the above Project Capacity Factor as:

5326.08 MW-h (4 MW x 24 Hours x 365 Days)

5326.08 MW-h x 100 35,040 MW-h

Capacity Factor as = 15.2 %.

2. Concentrated Solar Power Plant & Solar Thermal Power Plant


Solar Thermal Power Plant Efficiency normally 25 - 35% [i.e Capacity Factor].

Example:

Solar thermal Power Plant capacity as 400MW produces energy yield as 10,51,200 MWh units [As an annual average generation], Now Calculate Plant Capacity Factor?

Formula :

Energy Estimated (Plant Generator Name plate capacity x 24 Hours x 365 Days )

For the above Project Capacity Factor as:

10,51,200 MW-h (400 MW x 24 Hours x 365 Days)

10,51,200 MW-h x 100 35,04,000 MW-h

Capacity Factor as = 30 %.



3. Wind Power Plant

Wind Power Plant Efficiency normally 20 - 40% [i.e Capacity Factor].

Example:

Wind Farm capacity as 50MW [50 x 1MW] produces energy yield as 1,10,595 MWh units [As an annual average generation], Now Calculate Plant Capacity Factor?

Formula :


Energy Estimated (Plant Generator Name plate capacity x 24 Hours x 365 Days )


For the above Project Capacity Factor as:


1,10,595 MW-h (50 MW x 24 Hours x 365 Days)


1,10,595 MW-h x 100 4,38,000 MW-h


Capacity Factor as = 25.25 %.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/power-plants-efficiency-capacity-utilization-factor-v-r-v

Unquote.

Yes we do need both the solar & nuclear power but instead of large solar parks, emphasis should be on the Photo Voltaic Panels installed on the individual houses.

 
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Poor journalism there Niaz

I have no idea where these numbers are coming from not only are they incorrrect but even wrong a 400MW plant produced 72MW ? So what it runs for only 15 minutes per day ? Impossible

I don't want to get into solar vs nuclear we need both in Pakistan

But you cannot just compare electric production without cost factor

Solar is free
Thermal power costs a fortune depending on oil and gas prices
Nuclear even more, the decommissioning alone is a fortune

Pakistan has huge solar potential and we should build more and more

And nuclear too but bigger units like 1000MW

What solar losses in efficiency it makes up when compared to billions in decommissioning nuclear
 
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If it runs for 10-12 hours a day it's 10 x 400MW which is 4000MWh per day and so on you can calculate the yearly production

Not really, solar power plants are rated at their peak generation capacity under ideal temperature and sunlight. Since temp & sunlight varies throughout the day hence power production does not remain constant.
 
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@aziqbal there is a difference between nameplate capacity and production of electricity by a power plant. As per @niaz calculations, I think it would be better to compare MWh produced in a year by Solar Panels (name plate capacity 1100MW) and a nuclear power plant (name plate capacity 1100MW).

Nuclear Plant: 1100(MW)*365*24*0.9 = 8,672,400MWh
Solar Plant: 1100(MW)*365*24*0.19 = 1,830,840MWh

You see above, there is a difference in produced electricity in a year.

Lets look at the cost factor:
Solar Plant: 1100*1m = $1100million

As we will need bigger solar plant to match the production levels of Nuclear Plant.
Cost = 1,830,840/2409000 = 4.74
Total Cost = 4.74*1100= $5.21 billion plus minimal running cost.

Nuclear Plant: KANUPP 2&3 will cost around $9.5 billion with a name plate capacity of 2200MW. So one plant will cost $4.75 billion. Plus fuel, running and decommissioning (not sure if this is included in the total cost) cost.
Furthermore a nuclear plant will outlast a solar farm by a factor of 2 I think....

There are two fundamental differences. Nuclear power plant can be used as a peak power production unit but on the other hand Solar panels cannot be due to production only when the sun shines. So we will still need hydro, nuclear and Coal/Gas/Oil based power plants.
The government could take the initiative to give subsidy to households to install solar panels on rooftops which would reduce the load on the central grid plus electricity will be consumed where it would be generated.
 
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Poor journalism there Niaz

I have no idea where these numbers are coming from not only are they incorrrect but even wrong a 400MW plant produced 72MW ? So what it runs for only 15 minutes per day ? Impossible

I don't want to get into solar vs nuclear we need both in Pakistan

But you cannot just compare electric production without cost factor

Solar is free
Thermal power costs a fortune depending on oil and gas prices
Nuclear even more, the decommissioning alone is a fortune

Pakistan has huge solar potential and we should build more and more

And nuclear too but bigger units like 1000MW

What solar losses in efficiency it makes up when compared to billions in decommissioning nuclear


Solar energy is not free. You are only considering only the operating costs; total costs should include amortization of the capital cost of plant over its lifetime. Additionally solar panels need to be dust free and hence need to be regularly cleaned and the performance declined over time.

Admittedly due to the global warming & stress towards clean energy, investment in the solar & wind projects have soared in the last two years. I came across a recent report by the Frankfurt School titled “Global Trends in renewable energy investment 2107” which claimed that now Solar & Wind Energy is cheapest to produce.

Problem is that most countries now insist on carbon control & storage facilities on fossil plants and subsidise the renewable energy. Coupled with the sharp drop in the PVC panel cost, solar energy gives the impression of being cheap. But does it apply to Pakistan?

In my opinion it is difficult to compare true costs of different form of energy because of the above factors. Surprisingly there is a trend away from the big hydroelectric projects due to their enormous initial capital requirement and because dams also cause ecological problems.

I do agree that dismantling cost of nuclear plants is onerous. But except for the West Germany & Japan, there is considerable interest in the advanced nuclear power plants the world over.

Coming back to the Capacity Factor; I know that 18 to 20% appears to be too low, but nevertheless it is a fact and confirmed by the actual power output. Certainly not poor journalism.
 
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Imadul sb,

And obviously no generation aftrr sunset.

Wouldnt solar panels produce energy from moonlight and starlight (and light from jugnoos, if any)?

Regards
 
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Guy let's cut the fancy calculations because no one has factored in decommissioning and refuelling you are just jumping on nuclear band wagon and neglecting solar, Pakistan has unbelievable solar potential

Do you know what it takes to decommission?

Any even thought of the refuelling

What are you going to do with nuclear waste eat it ? What about contaminated NaK coolant ?

The list is endless

Decommissioning runs into billions why do you think the many advanced country's of the world like German is building solar/wind plants and shutting down nuclear for fun

Pakistan needs both no question

But to justify nuclear over solar efficiency is just silly because you are not considering all the pro and con of both
 
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Do you know what it takes to decommission?
What are you going to do with nuclear waste eat it ? What about contaminated NaK coolant ?
Decommissioning is a problem and an expensive one. Maybe you know how much it costs?

But to justify nuclear over solar efficiency is just silly because you are not considering all the pro and con of both
No one is justifying nuclear over solar... Just gave you some figures. The aim was to understand how capacity factor works... Each form of production has its pros and cons. I also indicated that despite the solar farms for peak power production nuclear/coal/gas/hydro/wind will need to be setup.
Every country has a good mix and UK produces around 19% from nuclear which has been constant for past few decades (similar figure for USA).
What Pakistan needs is a good mix of different production sources. It should cut down on the furnace oil and replace with some renewable and coal/nuclear.
Germany and UK give subsidy to install solar panels on rooftops. As per my post above solar is better on rooftops with some subsidy from government. It will be quicker and easier and there will be no line losses either.
 
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It's almost impossible to predict the clean up cost specific on each site

For example UK needs to decommission 17 reactors it will take over 120 years and cost over $150 billion but could rise to over $200 billion

Building nuclear is the easy part decommissioning is the hard part
 
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