Case for AFT-10 in Pakistan's armored divisions

[Bilal.]

Do you guys know if there would be armored battles, and where would they be most likely? The LOC?

Armour confrontation on LOC is not possible. The terrain doesn’t allow it. It would be in plans of Punjab and deserts of Sindh.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

What if communication is jammed? And the IFV above is not just a M113, it is a unarmored IFV with similar protection to the M2 Bradley.

Aselsan is one of the few companies in the world in Jamming and Crypto Radio technology, but if you say it will necessarily be a problem, there is no point in sending a corpse with the vehicle to where you can suffer jamming.

What if communication is jammed? And the IFV above is not just a M113, it is a unarmored IFV with similar protection to the M2 Bradley.

This is an idea used to avoid wasting M113s, you are not sending a product that will change the course of the war. It is also an improved model of the Viper m113, but if you send the FNSS Acv 15 or its variants with a slightly increased armor, it will do the same, but none can be M2 Bradley, just the same tasks.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Armour confrontation on LOC is not possible. The terrain doesn’t allow it. It would be in plans of Punjab and deserts of Sindh.

I thought so, do you have some data on size of Indian regiments? Would they try using cold start size armies?

 

[Bilal.]

It is apparently a copy of Spike NLOS, at least according to Mil Today. Israelis produce good missiles, so I wouldn't doubt its capabilities.

I don’t think so. It has almost 3 times the range and came before it if I remember correctly. They named it to allude XM501.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Aselsan is one of the few companies in the world in Jamming and Crypto Radio technology, but if you say it will necessarily be a problem, there is no point in sending a corpse with the vehicle to where you can suffer jamming.


This is an idea used to avoid wasting M113s, you are not sending a product that will change the course of the war. It is also an improved model of the Viper m113, but if you send the FNSS Acv 15 or its variants with a slightly increased armor, it will do the same, but none can be M2 Bradley, just the same tasks.

Again, won't staying out of range of Indian tanks, and ATGMs leave vehicle relatively safe in this case?

I don’t think so. It has almost 3 times the range and came before it if I remember correctly. They named it to allude XM501.

Could be, Israel is known for giving Chinese tech at least years ago. Not sure if that is still the case.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Again, won't staying out of range of Indian tanks, and ATGMs leave vehicle relatively safe in this case?


Could be, Israel is known for giving Chinese tech at least years ago. Not sure if that is still the case.

For these vehicles, you have to cut money and use fire and forget atgm, then the tanks don't matter. What I mean here is not Omtas etc, but a Spike Nlos equivalent long range system. Safe is about your engineering ability.

 

[Bilal.]

Could be, Israel is known for giving Chinese tech at least years ago. Not sure if that is still the case.

China has crossed the point where it required their help at least a decade and a half ago.

 

[Philip the Arab]

For these vehicles, you have to cut money and use fire and forget atgm, then the tanks don't matter. What I mean here is not Omtas etc, but a Spike Nlos equivalent long range system. Safe is about your engineering ability.

Max engagement range of Indian tanks is about 5.5kms with ATGM on a good day, accuracy becomes dismal after that distance. In theory it could stay about 9.5km away and still engage Indian armored vehicles.

China has crossed the point where it required their help at least a decade and a half ago.

So how likely would a armored clash like the scenarios in the Gulf wars be? Would that be likely only in Cold Start scenarios?

 

[Bilal.]

So how likely would a armored clash like the scenarios in the Gulf wars be? Would that be likely only in Cold Start scenarios?

A full scale war would be like gulf war and more but with nuclear weapons it’s a bit unlikely that’s why (after realizing this in 2001 operation parakram) india developed cold start, which too with each passing day is becoming less likely because by the time they raise the capability by ~2030 it will have been countered fully. I think, the most possible scenario is small scale skirmishes with each side lobbing PGMs at the other. but then again conflict has its own dynamics and things can escalate up the ladder.

 

[HAIDER]

If we analyze M113 , its really amazing that how those engineers built such a balance machine with less technology in hand, that it is still useful on all light weapon platform. Otherwise market is full of latest track and wheel carrier, but M113 is still one hell of machine which still accommodating all futurist weapons. First went in service in late 50 , but first batch of 32 of these machine commissioned in 1962.

 

[Philip the Arab]

A full scale war would be like gulf war and more but with nuclear weapons it’s a bit unlikely that’s why (after realizing this in 2001 operation parakram) india developed cold start, which too with each passing day is becoming less likely because by the time they raise the capability by ~2030 it will have been countered fully. I think, the most possible scenario is small scale skirmishes with each side lobbing PGMs at the other. but then again conflict has its own dynamics and things can escalate up the ladder.

So if India can successfully mobilize hundreds of thousands of vehicles in 72 hours and try a push into Pakistani territory how would it currently be countered?

 

[Blacklight]

Do you guys know if there would be armored battles, and where would they be most likely? The LOC?

There might be, but not LOC, instead Intl Border. Punjab and Sindh.

 

[Bilal.]

So if India can successfully mobilize hundreds of thousands of vehicles in 72 hours and try a push into Pakistani territory how would it currently be countered?

Mobilizing hundreds of thousands of troops and platforms was the previous doctrine (Sunderjee Doctrine) which took weeks and was countered.

Cold start calls for smaller size IBG quickly making shallow ingress and holding.

Pakistan will pre-posturing counters and inducting required system to target such a force, ie, MLRS, truck artillery, so forth.

 

[Philip the Arab]

There might be, but not LOC, instead Intl Border. Punjab and Sindh.

I don't think Pakistan today would be able to counter that in a tank vs tank manner. Even working with PAF wouldn't be able to blunt attack because of having to deal with IAF at the same time. This type of solution I am proposing could work fairly well assuming PAF and air defense could prevent air superiority from being achieved over the battlefield. PAF would deal with air threats, it couldn't actively deal with ground threats.

Mobilizing hundreds of thousands of troops and platforms was the previous doctrine (Sunderjee Doctrine) which took weeks and was countered.

Cold start calls for smaller size IBG quickly making shallow ingress and holding.

Pakistan will pre-posturing counters and inducting required system to target such a force, ie, MLRS, truck artillery, so forth.

60 thousand troops for example is not very small, against a surprised, not fully prepared force it will decimate. Countering this would need dedicated anti tank vehicles like AFT-10, and artillery with munitions like SADARM.

 

[Blacklight]

So if India can successfully mobilize hundreds of thousands of vehicles in 72 hours and try a push into Pakistani territory how would it currently be countered?

In 72hrs they wouldn't even been able to pull their pants up, forget launch an offensive, here is why:
India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...thout-fighting-a-war/articleshow/45016284.cms