What's new

Can’t allow veto to have a veto over UNSC reform process: India

Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
312
Reaction score
-3
Country
India
Location
India
SOURCE : PTI

sec-council.jpg


As differences persist among UN member states on the key issue of veto, India has asserted that the topic cannot be allowed to block the process of Security Council reform and called for consolidating the negotiating text on the basis of convergence reached so far.

“The issue of veto is important but then we cannot also allow the veto to have a veto over the process of Council reform itself,” India’s Permanent Representative to the UN Ambassador Syed Akbaruddin said here yesterday.

Akbaruddin urged the chair of the Inter-Governmental Negotiations (IGN) to consolidate the negotiating text on the basis of convergence reached on issues so far while also delineating the divergence and the contrarian view of some.

He stressed that that chair should ask member states to build further on the consolidated and shortened text.

Reiterating India’s national position on the issue of veto, Akbaruddin said as long as the veto exists, it should be extended to new permanent members in a reformed Security Council.

He further suggested that as a measure of “flexibility and willingness for compromise”, the use of the veto can be deferred till the Review Conference.

“The African Union (and this is understandable) does not wish to defer use. The difference, we see, as one of a degree than one of a kind,” he said during the informal plenary meeting of the IGN on ‘Question of Veto’.

Giving an elaborate historical perspective on the use of the veto in the 70-year history of the UN, Akbaruddin said from the time the Security Council was created in 1946 till today, 317 vetoes have been cast and as result 230 draft resolutions or parts thereof have been vetoed in total.

In effect 10 percent of the 2,271 resolutions adopted till date have been vetoed.

He further underscored that apart from the use of the veto within the Security Council, there have been expansion of the veto to the Council’s subsidiary bodies such as the Sanctions Committees.

He said in these bodies the veto has been extended to all 15 members of the Committees who can block, or object or place on hold any request of a Member State, thereby in effect killing the proposal on grounds that consensus is required.

“As the well known idiom goes, ‘if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck’. Yes…We have by a procedural stratagem expanded the veto to all members of the subsidiary bodies of the Security Council far from restraining its use,” he said.

He stressed that given the history of the use of veto, it is not surprising that a significant number of member states call for abolition of the veto or to limit and curtail its use to the extent possible.

Several other member states also support voluntary restrictions on the use of veto in situations such as genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and gross human rights violations.

While some member states belong to the school of thought that restrictions should be placed on the use of the veto, there are others who want no restrictions to be placed on the veto.

“For them, history stopped in 1945. To them, all subsequent changes: the vast expansion in membership, the anti-colonial and anti-apartheid triumphs, the march of freedom; the growth of equality; all have not happened and should not be taken into account. Multilateralism means nothing; plurilateralism is the order of the day. The majority may not like it; so much the worse for the majority,” Akbaruddin said.

Aligning India’s position with the L 69 group of developing countries, as well as with the G-4, Akbaruddin said the two largest groups of Africa and L 69 are of the view that the veto should be abolished but as long as it exists, it should be extended to all members of the permanent category of the Security Council, who “must enjoy all prerogatives and privileges of permanent membership in the permanent category including the right of the veto.”

The issue of the veto is among the most contentious and divisive as nations try to move forward on the UN Security Council reform process.

The ‘Uniting for Consensus’ group, of which Pakistan is a part, said at the meeting that it supports expanding the Council only in the non-permanent category, which makes the question of extension of veto to additional members “irrelevant”.

“Permanent membership and veto, in terms and status and power, are symbols of inequality in the Security Council. Therefore, it has been the UfC’s principled position to oppose strengthening such inequalities in an expanded Council,” Deputy Permanent Representative of Italy Ambassador Inigo Lambertini said in his statement on behalf of the UfC group.

He added that the UfC believes that a Security Council where the critical decisions before it are taken by consensus is the ideal.

“When this cannot be achieved, the majority view, informed and supported by timely and relevant information, should be upheld, rather than be subject to the veto of a few. This would certainly be more representative, democratic, transparent and effective. And it would guarantee the principle of sovereign equality among States,” he said.

Noting the “aspiration” of some regional groups for stronger representation on the Council, Lambertini said UfC believes that extending permanent membership with veto power would only make the Council ?more unequal and less effective.

“The alternative of creating new permanent seats without the veto, or with a suspended right to use the veto, presents equal – if not more – prospects of exacerbating disparities and tensions among regional groups and member states,” he said.
 
Begani shadi me Abdulla deewana.


(This post was originally made in response to a professional making weird offensive comments. That comment has since been deleted)
 
Last edited:
Even without permanent seat we get what we want,even a puny Yoga Resolution was passed by more than 150 + votes including musalman countries and due to Indian resolutions several local terrorists are now known as "UN Designated" terrorists with bounty on their head.
 
Reiterating India’s national position on the issue of veto, Akbaruddin said as long as the veto exists, it should be extended to new permanent members in a reformed Security Council.

Akbaruddin said the two largest groups of Africa and L 69 are of the view that the veto should be abolished but as long as it exists, it should be extended to all members of the permanent category of the Security Council, who “must enjoy all prerogatives and privileges of permanent membership in the permanent category including the right of the veto.”

So India's official position, is that the veto is unfair and should be abolished, but if it can't be abolished, India demands a veto for themselves?

Sounds highly contradictory.

Anyway it's true, the veto is unfair. The fact that Somalia is not Switzerland is also unfair. People dying of starvation is unfair. The world is unfair. That's how the world works.
 
So India's official position, is that the veto is unfair and should be abolished, but if it can't be abolished, India demands a veto for themselves?

Sounds highly contradictory.

Anyway it's true, the veto is unfair. The fact that Somalia is not Switzerland is also unfair. People dying of starvation is unfair. The world is unfair. That's how the world works.
Yes so we are working on our agenda as do you guys so watch the show rather than judging it.
 
So India's official position, is that the veto is unfair and should be abolished, but if it can't be abolished, India demands a veto for themselves?

Sounds highly contradictory.

Anyway it's true, the veto is unfair. The fact that Somalia is not Switzerland is also unfair. People dying of starvation is unfair. The world is unfair. That's how the world works.
India's Position is in first place should be abolished.
If Veto holders not ready to give-up this then it should also be extended to all new members of UNSC who will be chosen democratically by all the members of the council, to have equality among all.

This is the completely right position as far as I can understand.
 
India's Position is in first place should be abolished.
If Veto holders not ready to give-up this then it should also be extended to all new members of UNSC who will be chosen democratically by all the members of the council, to have equality among all.

This is the completely right position as far as I can understand.

Have you thought about why the P5 would want to voluntarily dilute their veto power, and give it to countries that will veto their own resolutions?

Does that make sense to you?

In geopolitics the only thing that truly matters is national self-interests. Why would a country choose to hurt their own interests, in order to help foreign interests?
 
I 100% agree on your line, India's position is on moral grounds.and nobody give shit to morals.

From a moral standpoint I agree that veto power is wildly unfair. Which makes sense because we live in an unfair world.

In geopolitics though, concepts such as morality and intentions (and other abstract concepts) are irrelevant. All that matters in geopolitics is national self-interests.
 
Have you thought about why the P5 would want to voluntarily dilute their veto power, and give it to countries that will veto their own resolutions?

Does that make sense to you?

In geopolitics the only thing that truly matters is national self-interests. Why would a country choose to hurt their own interests, in order to help foreign interests?
And that's all we are saying.
Will interests of P5 remain safe when India emerges at that level in one or two decades? It gonna be doing anything and it will be hard for entire world and economy to sanction India.
For example, what could have happened if China was not today in security council?
A major economic and military power and globally influenced manufacturing giant, it alone gonna be creating large hurdles in path of P4 resulting P4 loosing their value in world finally.

India will be in same position as above scenario against P5 in next 10-20 years .
So, either India will get a permanent membership in UNSC or UNSC will lose their credibility.
When India wasn't a major force, India has disobeyed UN many times, tested nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons and defied economic sanctions on other countries.

What do you think, what we gonna do if we reach US, Russia of PRC level? :D
I mean not testing nukes, yet you sanction one country and India starts pumping their economy. :P
Choice is for P5, either save their value in global arena or get balanced by great power whom they have been teasing from many years. :lol:
 
And we are saying.
Will interests of P5 remain safe when India emerges at that level in one or two decades. It gonna be doing anything and it will be hard for entire world and economy to sanction India.
For example, what could have happened if China was not today in security council?
A major economic and military power and globally influenced manufacturing giant, it alone gonna be creating large hurdles in path of P4 resulting P4 loosing their value in world finally.

India will be in same position as above scenario against P5 in next 10-20 years .
So, either India will get a permanent membership in UNSC or UNSC will lose their credibility.
When India wasn't a major force, India has disobeyed UN many times, tested nuclear weapons, chemical and biological weapons and defied economic sanctions on other countries.

What do you think, what we gonna do if we reach US, Russia of PRC level? :D
Choice is for P5, either save their value in global arena or get balanced by great power whom they have been teasing from many years. :lol:

When China joined the UNSC in 1945 we were possibly the most destroyed country in the world, after WW2, the Imperial Japanese invasion, and the Chinese Civil War. And our per capita income at that point was literally at the bottom of the world.

We were basically a wasteland at that point. We didn't qualify for a P5 seat in 1945 due to our great wealth or power, that's for sure.

We got the UNSC due to a technicality, that's it. The requirement to be a P5 member was to have been a "major independent power" on the allied side of WW2.

India was not independent in 1945, so India did not qualify. That's all. The world is unfair I know.
 
Back
Top Bottom