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Can India's PAD and AAD ABM systems effective against pakistans missiles?

suleman yousaf

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Greeting to all the viewers of this thread.I just want information that are our ballistic missiles effective against their PAD and AAD?Can they evade them?I would like everyone veiws.Please please please no nationalist verbal fighting.I welcome all comments,views and theories.
 
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Basically no!
Check this out......be afraid, very afraid :devil:



Ballistic Missile Defense
Missile defence was one of the potential areas for strategic partnership between the US and India identified in the Next Steps in Strategic Partnership (NSSP) in January 2004. June 2005, as part of the "New Framework for the U.S.-India Defense Relationship," signed by US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Indian Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee, the United States offered India increased opportunities for technology transfer, collaboration, co-production, and research and development, with the understanding that US technology-related sanctions on India will be lifted.

The US turned down Israel’s request to transfer the Arrow-II (a US-Israel joint venture) to India, despite it being an endo-atmospheric (range within Earth’s atmosphere) system, though it agreed to transfer the Green Pine Radar. Two Green Pine units were transfered to India around July 2002 for evaluation. One was sent for trial to the national capital area and another was placed closer to the border to permit surveillance of Pakistani tests. Then in August 2005 India's Defense Secretary Yogendera Narain revealed that, after three to four years of discussions, India had acquired a third Green Pine radar from Israel for "advanced research". In February 2003 it was reported that India had agreed to invest approximately $150 million in Israel's Arrow-2 anti-missile system.

Indian BMD experimentats progressed rapidly after the DRDO convinced the government on its ability to develop BMD technology. DRDO is testing a two-tier BMD (ballistic missile defence) system, capable of tracking and destroying incoming hostile missiles both inside (endo) and outside (exo) the earth's atmosphere. DRDO's BMD program has a two-tiered system consisting of two interceptor missiles, namely Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) for high altitude interception and Advanced Air Defence (AAD) for lower altitude interception. The PAD missiles are for intercepting ballistic missiles at altitudes between 50-80 km and the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile is for destroying them at heights between 15-30 km [the capability aspired by the Akash].

The BMD system was tested for the first time on 27 November 2006 when an exo-atmospheric hypersonic interceptor missile was used to destroy an "enemy'' Prithvi missile at an altitude of 40-50 km. With the test of the PAD missile, India became the fourth country to have successfully developed an Anti-Ballistic missile system, after United States, Russia and Israel. The second time, on 06 December 2007, an endo-atmospheric interceptor took on an enemy missile at an altitude of 15-km. As of early 2008 it was planned that in July 2008 there would be another test of the exo-interceptor, at an 80-km altitude against a longer range 'enemy' missile [such a test was conducated in March 2009] Then, in September-October 2008, it was planned to test the exo and endo together.

On 06 March 2009 Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) conducted a test of its interceptor missile and missile tracking radars for validating the advancements made in the Air Defence program. Modifications made in the interceptor missile PAD 02 provided it with higher energy, an improved guidance and control system and on top of it all, a Gimbaled Directional Warhead with it. Though the interceptor missiles, have been tested earlier, the main aim of thetest was to validate the capabilities of the indigenously developed 'Swordfish' Long Range Tracking Radar (LRTR). Swordfish is a target acquisition and fire control radar for the BMD system. The missile to be hit will be fired from a longer distance than it was in the earlier test. DRDO would test whether the radar can track the incoming missile from that distance or not.

India inched closer towards its endeavour to put in place its own home-grown Ballistic Missile Defence System as it successfully carried out the third Interceptor test on 06 March 2009 at 1624 hrs from Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Wheeler Island in Orissa. The mission control room burst into raptures as the radar display indicated the interception and destruction of the decoy enemy missile by the interceptor. Today’s test achieved all the mission objectives. The two-stage Interceptor Missile fitted with advanced systems hit the target enemy missile at 75 kms altitude. To mimic the incoming enemy’s ballistic missile trajectory, Dhanush missile went to an altitude of 120 Km and was launched from ship about 100 km away from the Orissa Coast. The Interceptor missile was launched from a mobile launcher located on Wheeler Island Launch Complex.

After the successful test of BMD system on 06 March 2009, top DRDO scientist V K Saraswat said the Indian Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) shield was better than the American system. “PAC III is an outdated system. Our Advanced Air Defence (AAD) missile is 30 per cent superior in terms of range and capability. AAD intercepts at much higher ranges and altitudes compared to PAC III as it has only 15km range for BMD.”

Saraswat said Russia, Israel and France provided assistance in areas where DRDO needed help “bridging technology gap and accelerating technology development.” Russia helped India develop the new Radio Frequency Seeker for the interceptor, Israel provided help in developing the ‘Swordfish’ long-range tracking radar and the French helped with the Fire Control System for the BMD.

After the third test in early 2009, plans called for a test of the endo and exo together in an integrated mode later in 2009. DRDO said the first phase of the system would be developed by 2011. If the tests prove successful, the DRDO will go ahead with the deployment of the BMD by 2015.

To tackle missiles with a striking range of over 6,000 km, hypersonic interceptor missiles will have to be developed for the phase 2 of the defence program. Plans are also afoot to have space-based surveillance systems to ensure a hostile threat can be detected even earlier than the present long-range tracking radars (LRTRs) used in the BMD system.

PAD/AAD (India), Self-propelled surface-to-air missiles
Type
Self-propelled static surface-to-air missile system

Development
India is developing a complete suite of air defence missiles that are both endo-atmospheric and exo-atmospheric that will employ Network Centric technology and will be able to engage all types of targets including:Short-Range Ballistic Missiles (SRBM)Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles (IRBM)Air breathing targets such as aircraft Cruise missilesThe system is expected to be deployed in a mix and match group to counter short reaction threats. Details of at least two missiles have been released, the PAD and AAD. There has however been some discussion as to whether an air-to-air missile currently in development - the Astra - has already been involved in user firing trials in a surface-to-air role. This may well be used as a means of either point defence, or at the very least in defence of the two primary missile systems against SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defence) attacks. A further missile development that will increase the range and capability of the system is know as the PDV, this is also due for firing trials sometime early in the FY2010. With this capability, India will have protection cover in the western region and the northeastern region against those targets that are launched from 2,500 km. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has developed technologies including Micro Electro Mechanical Systems (MEMS), Nano materials and Nano sensors to enable it to enter this particular area for missile defence and has laid down a solid foundation for the indigenous missile defence of India from its local adversaries such as Pakistan and.....snipped....

Building a Missile Shield

Indian Ballistic Missile Defense Program
 
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I am not expert of missles, but I know that Shaheen II has a very comprehensive anti-missile shield evasion system. So it would be interesting to see how the system you mentioned stack up against Shaheen II.
 
ABM systems are more of "star wars" type futuristic technology.
It will be quite premature to think that any of ABM systems existing now, can do the Job.
Only Russia has an active ABM system which is quite useless as it a dummy when US Trident MIRVed Missiles will be in the air ; Till date there has been no ABM againt MIRVed Weapons.

In the India-Pakistan scenario, things are a bit easier ; with either countries not having MIRVs as of now, Indian ABM has a lower degree of offense to face.

PAD and AAD have been tested against a Midified Prithvi, which is a Tactical missile. Though it was give a path to mimic chinese M11 which it hit successfully, the situation will vary when it comes to a real Long Range Missile Intercept. India has S-300 system as well employed around several cities.

Indian ABM , as of NOW Cannot have a good dependable ABM quality, but its just the beginning. The Threat is more from Strategic Missiles with ranges above 2000 KM ; for which the system is NOT ready.

PAD+AAD ::
Tactical Missiles = Yes [ lower range Missiles ]
Strategic Long Range Missiles = NO [ The High speed of projectile, early detection adn trajectory projection being the key issues ]

Having seen the results of US' ABM programmes, time n again Ballistic Missiles seem to be Invincible. and I will be surprised and infact it will be too early if India finds a solution to the issue.

Its an Awesome beginning but still Long way to go, If we do it in a real Proved way, India may actually claim to be The First !
 
a complete ballistic missile shield can never be achieved,but if the BMD can take out a few missiles(differentiating decoys),i think it could make a big difference for a second,deadly ,unacceptable strike.and the two tier approach increases the propability of interception greatly.it would be better to take out missiles using the pradhuyma(PDV) than the ashwin(AAD) because it can prevent nuclear wastes falling towards the earth.
 
Based on what is known today about Israel's ambitious Arrow program (and reported India-Israel ABM collaboration), there is a strong possibility that India's missile shield program will not meet any of its key objectives. However, it makes no sense to build Pakistan's national security strategy on hopes of India failing. The right Pakistani response, in my view, should be as follows:

1. Pakistan should gradually build up a larger arsenal of at least a thousand ballistic missiles with an appropriate mix of nuclear and conventional warheads and decoys to make India's missile shield much less effective.

2. Pakistani defense scientists and engineers should study all available information and data on Israel's Arrow technology to develop appropriate counter measures to confuse, frustrate and effectively penetrate any missile shields developed and deployed by India.

3. Pakistani defense scientists and engineers need to look into effective and affordable missile defense development in partnership with their Chinese counterparts to deal with the common Indian threat faced by both.

High altitude nuclear EMP can also effectively negate both Ballistic and Anti-basslistic guidance systems.

Read more at Haq's Musings: India's Missile Shield and Israel Envy Threaten Pakistan
 
I am not expert of missles, but I know that Shaheen II has a very comprehensive anti-missile shield evasion system. So it would be interesting to see how the system you mentioned stack up against Shaheen II.
The terminal stage of the missile, the warhead does have terminal guidance capability. Its not known whether Pakistan possesses such technology yet. This does somewhat complicate things a bit.
On a lighter note, there's only one way to find it out! Send one to India and lets see.
Disclaimer: We shall not be responsible for the consequences that will follow.
ps: there are two ways this could go ;)
 
Based on what is known today about Israel's ambitious Arrow program (and reported India-Israel ABM collaboration), there is a strong possibility that India's missile shield program will not meet any of its key objectives.

First a Qs. What do u mean by "ANY" ?

Well, US had many "Ambitious" BMD projects, including NMD but which were quite unsatisfactory.
Its an Entirely new Area of Military Research and NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS HAVING any BMD DEFENSE AGAINST THE MISSILES THEY WILL FACE.

So, No matter Arrow 1 was Good but It can Intercept Gauri; Can be possible but very very uncertain.
So It wont be wise to call off Indian BMD Plan because :

#1. If NO country like US and Russia have made a genuine BMD, will it be good to call of our own BMD programme just because we have similar joint programme with another country ?

#2. The 2 Tests have been 100% Successful. Whay call of a Successful project ?

However, it makes no sense to build Pakistan's national security strategy on hopes of India failing. The right Pakistani response, in my view, should be as follows:

1. Pakistan should gradually build up a larger arsenal of at least a thousand ballistic missiles with an appropriate mix of nuclear and conventional warheads and decoys to make India's missile shield much less effective.

Do You know that a mere 50-100 strikes are enough to take India Down. ( Estimated to be around 20 for Pakistan , Read NuclearWeaponArchive )
Besides will it be Financially Feasable to Produce, Maintain and Upgrade systems for 1000 Nuclear Weapons ?

2. Pakistani defense scientists and engineers should study all available information and data on Israel's Arrow technology to develop appropriate counter measures to confuse, frustrate and effectively penetrate any missile shields developed and deployed by India.

Excellent Suggestion. They must take your Advice.

3. Pakistani defense scientists and engineers need to look into effective and affordable missile defense development in partnership with their Chinese counterparts to deal with the common Indian threat faced by both.

That may be good but IMO pakistan should think differently :

#1. Dont Waster your Money and Time for BMD, as None have been successful. Get one from China Or US.

#2. Strike the Root. MIRV your Missiles and All Indian BMD Plans will be a waste.

High altitude nuclear EMP can also effectively negate both Ballistic and Anti-basslistic guidance systems.

SDI ?
 
While the research and study for the MIRV's exist. The Political establishment along with a few senior officers in the military have cold feet about giving any further go ahead. While some suggest keeping the whole program black. The information tends to leak out eventually. And bringing MIRVed warheads to the region will seriously upset the already delicate detente between the two countries and a new strategic arms race will spawn.
On the prospect of warheads capable of evasive maneuvers...Been there..done that..nuff said.
 
#2. Strike the Root. MIRV your Missiles and All Indian BMD Plans will be a waste.

Uhmm, no

lets says a normal interceptor missile has a pk of 50, so you want to fire 3-4 interceptors per incoming ballistic target. A battery of 4 launchers each with 6 missiles can thus shoot down 6 missiles.

What an MIRC does is increase the number of ballsitic targets by the number of the warheads. 3 ballistic tracks might become 9. If there is only 1 defending battery that is three more tracks than can be engaged. The key for the defense is to have more interceptor missiles than the enemy has warheads. MIRV's are not majic, they are fast and small, but not faster than microprocessors and not small than modern radars can detect. They are also white hot and fragile.

Intercepting them can be done with today's technology. With the new laser technology coming on line it will get even easier.
 
PAD- prithvi air defence. if I'm not wrong than we can use it as attack and defence weapon. attack like normal prithvi missile and use it also as anti missile.:confused:
 
Let's not confuse ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads. In my opinion, what Pakistan needs is a significantly large combination of nukes, conv warheads and decoys with countermeasures to overcome any missile shield that threatens peace by changing the balance of terror in India's favor. This is essential to preserve peace in South Asia.
 

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