Call to abolish perks for judges, generals, legislators

[Mentee]

Now that you have information, what can you really do about it apart from sulking and burning your blood.

Nah infact i want them to tighten the screws on average Joe so finally this nation could live an Iranian revolution kinda moment.

I think CSS officers get the perks too, federal govt handled that

Front men of the army . But they both have one thing in common, never delivered nothing to the nation but are hell bent on claiming its resources like they are the only Neuro surgeons in town.

They will still get the budget even if they don’t ask for it. There will be a share and it will be allotted to buy armament, ammunition and other weaponry that military needs.

Rightly said so. Who needs permission when you got 6 lac army strong to extort it out anyways. In ka to koi kamal nae , g3 comes handy .

 

[VCheng]

No wonder the dead weight is ballooning to point where literally nothing is left to buy new equipment but to support the dead weight

One is reminded of Sheikh al-Bahr in Sinbad's fifth voyage. Perfect analogy.

 

[SQ8]

I understand the pessimism but even if situation goes really bad, how will Pakistan break?

Pakistan with its 4 provinces is still pretty much united or am I missing something here.

I don’t think he meant it from a breaking aspect - rather breaking from the perspective of breaking spirits completely.

Saving the middle class from hunger and exorbitant prices has actually enabled the elite to get away with whatever they want. Its time petrol hits 400 a liter and things become so unaffordable that some sort of “eat the rich” sentiment appears.

 

[SQ8]

@Jango @SQ8

Jango/Oscar sahiban,

It is encouraging to hear that there are now many serving as well as retired officers who see the folly of their institution which is basically the ruling class of Pak. Eventually some of them will rise to the top or groom similarly minded people. It is through such organic realisation on part of large sections of the ruling class that all great nations have risen to higher levels.

Regards

There are - but the problem isn’t that they are, like any system there is a certain marker from which you can impact change. Almost akin to global warming or AIDs it isn’t some disastrous event where you suddenly disappear - there are times for controls and treatments after which there is no going back to a bigger goal or even a previous state. As with natural systems, it starts showing up slowly in different issues and then they start to compound and develop until it suddenly becomes death by a thousand cuts.

I certainly doubt Pakistan will have some “civil war” or revolution - rather, it will simply stop functioning as a state and almost like a footnote the existing fiefdoms of Zardari and Sharifs will quietly get their share while the international community with cooperation from the establishment might end up assisting a fractured but stable existence.

Stuff like this was unthinkable to be written on PDF 5-10 years ago - heck a senior mod from then(and now) went all out trying to defend the military and all when I pointed the excesses of theirs and overall elite 10-12 years ago and now he is more vociferous than I on these issues.

IK is a pied piper, he bumbled foolishly through his first years even if one discounts him for COVID - but then PDM are total crooks with Zardari family the big bad wolf. The establishment in its addiction to getting what it wants - weapons, perks and so on has been an odd “neutral” where it only interceded when it felt its turf is being encroached on. The result is that I agree IK was(and might still be) a bad leader for Pakistan - the PTI was a chance for a renaissance within the educated middle class which they missed and in a way fear.

Unfortunately, this cycle of wanting to have your cake and eat it too as part of Pakistani national character has led them to this juncture where anything short of their entire leadership in every sector being replaced by competent ones and trillions being deposited - which is an impossibility- make anything now too little too late. Its not like the PTI led government would not have faced the same issues - but at least there was a larger percentage of the middle class that actually runs the country willing to fight it out. Now they neither have the morale nor the moral capacity left to care for anything.

 

[Genghis khan1]

In Pakistan, the position of SHO upto MNA is bought and then money is made to recover that, it’s a business of power in its own, no investigation will end that. This would mean that all PSs in Pakistan having 3-4 SHOs each will have to undergo this process. Then going up the ladder up to MPAs and MNAs.

Indeed, questions is what are the check and balances to stop such corruption? For e.g In US FBI under Dept of Justices will open an investigation and will prosecute them. Now in Pakistan FIA and justices system can do the same job (despite political pressure), but we all know both are rakheel of ultimate cane holder (the establishment), who when headed by the likes of Bajwa’s will instead of backing up the accountability process did the exact opposite.

 

[Mentee]

Indeed, questions is what are the check and balances to stop such corruption? For e.g In US FBI under Dept of Justices will open an investigation and will prosecute them. Now in Pakistan FIA and justices system can do the same job (despite political pressure), but we all know both are rakheel of ultimate cane holder (the establishment), who when headed by the likes of Bajwa’s will instead of backing up the accountability process did the exact opposite.

Nab like judiciary was the only federal accountability agency independent of executive control till a general's ego got hurt. Without any doubt it made excesses but overall acted as a deterrent against the unbridled corrupt practices of politicians and civil beaurucracy.


As for now it has been reduced to the status of f.i.a and provincial anti corruption where the govt actually gets to appoint any of her blue eyed beaurucrat as its chairman/d.g.

 

[Jango]

I’m not sure if you are aware but we have had MI, AI and NI visiting this forum and some mods were requested to delete some posts which caught the eyes of the agencies as they revealed some info on weapon systems that was not to be spread over the internet.

Having said that, if intel can visit PDF for such posts, it won’t be difficult to imagine that they have noted down posts on Twitter and other social media that you are mentioning.

I know of an officer whose FB chats were downloaded as transcripts by agency after he came under observation and the matter got to court martial, so open posts on social media won’t go unnoticed.

I am aware of that.

Let's see how long those laftain and kaptaans keep on going for

 

[NooriNuth]

Perks of General are from Fauji foundation. Perks of judges are from national budget. So there's a huge difference

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Forget about the other perks and privileges, not even a toilet cleaner in their offices or residences, aka the Elon Mask treatment.....

Pak will be 1000% better off with 0% bureaucracy, judiciary etc.....

Government isn't the solution, it's the problem - President Ronald Reagan

 

[Ali_Baba]

At some point when you run out of money - the merry go round has to come to an end. Sounds like the music will be tuned off soon with the bankrupcy looming ..

 

[Goenitz]

Gen Niazi
So they can obey an unconstitutional, unethical and immoral order!
What if Yahya had 'demanded' his family member?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627218276475449346

 

[Goenitz]

You talk about retired, I know serving ones (including those in hasaas idaray) who echo the same sentiments.

Leave the season officers aside, aaj kal Laftain aur Kaptaanon nay anon twitter account banaye huay hain and they vent on them regarding the military.

I have no clue where we are heading, but it is precarious.

@SQ8
I was so angry that a momentary thought of divorcing my wife came to my mind. She works for the army. That is not enough reason. Actually, many of her family members are in the army.

 

[Goenitz]

Plz don't ask for defense budget from this nation next time around as the army is pretty sovereign and self sufficient without the the need of any assistance from the state of Pakistan. We too could care less and invest our finances into education and health sector.

he likes public funding more as "it boils more blood (of public)"
Anyway, Fauji foundation is in loss like PIA, Railway or any other public enterprise. Also, retired genz led orgs like olympic association, SUPARCO, Faui foundation etc.
Lastly, pensions come directly from Federal govt funds. For all years of serving the chief, the army suddenly realized that retirees are govt employees.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627044776293064704

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@SQ8

Oscar sb,

I certainly doubt Pakistan will have some “civil war” or revolution -

You are right and that is quite fortunate. Being an old fashioned Conservative, I am very wary of all talks of a revolution- nothing good comes out of them in general.

We just need to look at Lanka next door. They had a "Revolution' last spring- but nothing much has changed, nor is it likely to change. Even the Rajapaksas are back in the country.

Regards

 

[SQ8]

@SQ8

Oscar sb,

I certainly doubt Pakistan will have some “civil war” or revolution -

You are right and that is quite fortunate. Being an old fashioned Conservative, I am very wary of all talks of a revolution- nothing good comes out of them in general.

We just need to look at Lanka next door. They had a "Revolution' last spring- but nothing much has changed, nor is it likely to change. Even the Rajapaksas are back in the country.

Regards

That is because no revolution is truly successful if those that are leading it are sidelined or killed so they can evolve their vision and bring it to fruition.

Animal Farm is the best manual for how not to do a revolution and Pakistan is the exegesis of Animal Farm.

The Indian revolution against the British was successful because the core leader (Nehru) and the core leadership of the congress survived and laid the foundations strong.

The Pakistani revolution against a Hindu majority failed because the core leadership (MA Jinnah) died or was killed (LA Khan) and the remaining sidelined by unionists or opportunists. Jinnah’s Pakistan was dead by 71 and whatever remains is also going to go away eventually or remain simply unrecognizable and irrelevant.

I remember back in 2004 or 5 - was in my late teens and speaking to a agency man in Karachi.. who told me a plan exists to break Pakistan internally and it came out and was rubbished or otherwise.. but it is what the man said was near prophetic .. he said it will be around 10-15 years but it be a consensus by people to separate - “ham qaum nahin, hujoom hain”