Featured Businesses to follow unrealistic guidelines to escape FATF grey list

[CriticalThought]

UAE is a monarchy not a democracy. For Australia, https://www.austrac.gov.au/business...verification/politically-exposed-persons-peps

Australia has the same guidelines for PEPs. Plus do they have the corruption at the same level as Pakistan? The day they have Nawaz Sharif as their prime minister, they will have to come up with stricter regulations as well

Corruption is everywhere. The difference between first world and third world countries is that in first world countries politicians make money after providing a level of service to the population. In third world countries, the people get absolutely nothing.

I was returning from taking a helicopter ride and one of the people at the aerodrome offered to give me a ride. On the way he points to a market and tells me "See this? This is all corruption."

Australia surely has the guidelines but these guidelines are not implemented anywhere in the world. UAE may be a monarchy, but it is still answerable to FATF. Where is the implementation?

 

[Verve]

View attachment 674771

British businesses must be dying too because of this same law for the same groups in UK as well!

 

[insight-out]

On the contrary, all we need is implementation of laws; we have a bigger constitution than all the first world countries and yet we don't have proper implementation. The elite get away with murder and the common man will spend 20 years behind bars for something which he/she never did. Jails are full of people with either a history of petty crimes or still on trial whereas Shahrukh Jatoi's either get a "get out of jail free" card or spend their time between home and private hospitals under VVIP treatment.

I realize that a common narrative in Pakistan is that we have all the laws we need, but are lacking the implementation/enforcement of those laws. That is a only a partial truth.

There are two main reasons why laws are not implemented:
1. The laws are badly written/designed
2. There are gaps in the law

As an example, you can enact a law to make rape illegal. But the consequences of committing that crime may be too mild. Even if the consequences are serious enough, the proof deemed acceptable by the court may be impossible to gather (e.g. eye-witness).

The blasphemy law is another example. You can enact a law against blasphemy, but by making the punishment for false accusations too mild, you open it to misuse.

Yet another example is the absence of serious penalties for the police not acting appropriately in response to a report of criminal activity.

We have repeatedly seen crimes going unpunished because the perpetrators are able to use the gaps and ambiguities in the law. We need to minimize the opportunities for not implementing the law, and raise the penalties for doing so.

That can be done by reforming our existing laws, and enacting new laws to close the gaps - both of which the PTI government seems to be doing.

The following passage explains it succinctly:

"Laws and policies are sabotaged both in a law’s creation and in their application. One common form of sabotage is that an intended gap is built into the formulation of legal standards that use law to create the appearance of law without creating “real” law. A common strategy is that the language is made to appear powerful and eloquent on the surface in the form of a legislative “sound bite” while containing qualifications that dilute and impede the actual effects of implementation. This can be done by imposing exceedingly high (or expensive) standards of proof on parties seeking to enforce the law through private actions. Or it may require complex processes that take long periods of time, delay outcomes and impose significant financial costs".
- The Implementation Gap: What Causes Laws to Succeed or Fail? by David Barnhizer, Cleveland State University

 

[S.Y.A]

Dont tell me that you have never paid a munshi money to get a stamp paper typed/written. But for property purchase we cant go through a lawyer?

comparing munshis and lawyers? stamp papers and entire data and records? you are as stupid as this law.

 

[S.Y.A]

UAE is a monarchy not a democracy.

since UAE is not UK/Aus and different rules apply there, then different rules and laws can be applicable in Pakistan also, simple as that, according to local environment (instead of copying everything from the west like monkeys).

 

[Mav3rick]

I realize that a common narrative in Pakistan is that we have all the laws we need, but are lacking the implementation/enforcement of those laws. That is a only a partial truth.

There are two main reasons why laws are not implemented:
1. The laws are badly written/designed
2. There are gaps in the law

As an example, you can enact a law to make rape illegal. But the consequences of committing that crime may be too mild. Even if the consequences are serious enough, the proof deemed acceptable by the court may be impossible to gather (e.g. eye-witness).

The blasphemy law is another example. You can enact a law against blasphemy, but by making the punishment for false accusations too mild, you open it to misuse.

Yet another example is the absence of serious penalties for the police not acting appropriately in response to a report of criminal activity.

We have repeatedly seen crimes going unpunished because the perpetrators are able to use the gaps and ambiguities in the law. We need to minimize the opportunities for not implementing the law, and raise the penalties for doing so.

That can be done by reforming our existing laws, and enacting new laws to close the gaps - both of which the PTI government seems to be doing.

The following passage explains it succinctly:

"Laws and policies are sabotaged both in a law’s creation and in their application. One common form of sabotage is that an intended gap is built into the formulation of legal standards that use law to create the appearance of law without creating “real” law. A common strategy is that the language is made to appear powerful and eloquent on the surface in the form of a legislative “sound bite” while containing qualifications that dilute and impede the actual effects of implementation. This can be done by imposing exceedingly high (or expensive) standards of proof on parties seeking to enforce the law through private actions. Or it may require complex processes that take long periods of time, delay outcomes and impose significant financial costs".
- The Implementation Gap: What Causes Laws to Succeed or Fail? by David Barnhizer, Cleveland State University

Well written and agreed.

 

[AsifIjaz]

This will help alot in getting a decent and a real deal for alot if sectors like decreasing property prices or at least stabilizing them. Same goes for the new cars "own money".

To give an example, I know a family, businessmen, paying less than 1 lac tax a year but they have a son in Columbia univ, 2nd son minting money by activities like..
... buy plots like it's unheard off (x number of plot files in streets ABC and xyz of a particular phase / sector of dha)
... A container/truck of xyz product of spices or hardware like hinges or knobs. It is easily sold on cash in a few days
... 3 or 4 years ago they had a dozen vezel and similar number of other cars at different showrooms.

And now read it again.. They were paying 1 lac tax on their main business which was supporting all this.
After this law, they must be shitting in their pants now. Doing business is their right but psying taxes is their duty. If we all pay tax, the tax rates will surely come down

 

[SD 10]

these are not unrealistic guidlines idiots!!! Start paying your taxes!!!

 

[ColonelSanders]

comparing munshis and lawyers? stamp papers and entire data and records? you are as stupid as this law.

Spoken like a true patwari. Entire data and records? So you have something to hide. Selling crack?

 

[Morpheus]

Other countries do this as well. Banks even had a yearly KYC which they send to their customers to fill out. UK banks have that, as do many banks in gulf, and Australia. Even now, crypto exchanges have started doing this as well by sending a KYC to customer.

Apparently if others countries do it, its ok. But if Pakistan does it, people have a problem. To those people that are complaining, i curse you and your family.

 

[ColonelSanders]

Other countries do this as well. Banks even had a yearly KYC which they send to their customers to fill out. UK banks have that, as do many banks in gulf, and Australia. Even now, crypto exchanges have started doing this as well by sending a KYC to customer.

Apparently if others countries do it, its ok. But if Pakistan does it, people have a problem. To those people that are complaining, i curse you and your family.

The problem with this lot is that if something is being implemented to curb the corruption and money laundering, everyone will look at other countries where the same thing is NOT implemented and will argue that if xyz country doesn't have that, why should we?
This is beyond comprehension of these patwaris that to become better than others, you need to have something that the others dont have. People here are arguing that UAE doesnt have the rules so we should not have the same rules either. But they forget that UAE doesnt have the same debt as we do and neither are they a nuclear power that most countries in the world deem as a risk due to continuous incapable leadership in the last 30 years or so. We need to become self sufficient and honest to the motherland first before we flip the finger to FATF and other goons.
We need these rules. Its not just an FATF thing. It is to stop Shehbaz Sharif and Zardari buying properties in their servant's names.

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

British businesses must be dying too because of this same law for the same groups in UK as well!

No British faces 6 months' detention without bail.

 

[CriticalThought]

Pakistan has a problem: Liberals. This breed of lowlifes are ever ready to exalt the mere suggestions of their masters. And this is exactly what is happening with these laws and the people cheering them.

These laws have a context. Before these laws, Pakistan's finance ministry is being run by an IMF agent Abdul Hafeez Shaikh. The FBR was being run by another IMF agent until he was removed and now there is an open question about who actually is the head of FBR (reference Dr. Shahid Masood's question during his daily program). The previous guy, Shabbar Zaidi tried to drown the country in a sea of documentation by asking for extensive documentation. This is a socialist tactic to embroil society in such rigmarole, it takes away people's will to live and think. This is the hell that Shabbar Zaidi was trying to create:

The hell of Russian bureaucracy

The Soviet Union was notorious for its endless form-filling and procrastination. Nothing much seems to have changed, as our Moscow correspondent discovered when she tried to get some dry cleaning done

www.theguardian.com

Please read that link in depth. Finally, there has been an attempt at cutting Pakistan government's money supply by putting the State Bank under IMF control. But when you have the kind of people who want to make Pakistan the 51st American state (discussed immediately after Musharraf came to power), the indignity of foreign take over and being told what to do in your own country becomes a medal of honor.

And then we have the Chief Mental Slave Imran Khan who thinks Denmark and other Scandinavian countries are the true representation of 'Riasat-e-Madina' (Al 'Aayazu Billah).

In this context, you are being asked to show that you are not a Politically Exposed Person. Tell me, isn't Nawaz Sharif the grand daddy, the leader of all PEPs in Pakistan? This man is currently sitting in Britain and plotting against Pakistan, tarnishing its reputation, and enjoying himself. It is indignity of the highest order that the people who are harboring the leader of your PEPs are now telling ordinary Pakistanis to show they are not PEPs. This inconvenient point is obviously lost upon the liberals.

But regardless, when my known enemy is telling me to draft laws, I already know they are not going to be in my favor. Furthermore, the liberals on this thread need to find some way to attain a high moral ground. And so, instead of limiting the discussion to the point at hand - the proof of not being a PEP - they must bring in other matters such as paying taxes and documenting the economy. These points are not being denied so why are they being brought up?

I think the master stroke of Western imperialism is not just binding Pakistanis within laws of their own choosing, it is in taking away their mental capacity to realize they are being ridiculed and insulted. For the record, I would like to point out that each and every one of the measures that I have lambasted above, I would have supported them if they had been introduced by intelligent, independent thinking, Muslim and patriotic Pakistanis and implemented and adjudicated by the same. But when I see two pence curs managing the entire initiative, I puke.

 

[dbc]

Yes, and quite tough in fact.

Yes, you don't realize how tough until you have income or assets in multiple countries. When I purchased a house and car(s) in the UK after I moved there in 2014. I had to show proof that the income was legitimate and already taxed in the US and France. Besides people forget Al Copone, he got 11 years maximum security for tax evasion

Don't mess with the IRS getting audited by them or their cousins across the Atlantic is indeed a traumatizing experience.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, you don't realize how tough until you have income or assets in multiple countries. When I purchased a house and car(s) in the UK after I moved there in 2014. I had to show proof that the income was legitimate and already taxed in the US and France. Besides people forget Al Copone, he got 11 years maximum security for tax evasion

Don't mess with the IRS getting audited by them or their cousins across the Atlantic is indeed a traumatizing experience.

Those are the big items. How many places have a sign up "No currency notes larger than $20 bill"?