Bullet train wars heat up: Exhibition on China's high speed railway launched in Indonesia

[Keel]

To be honest, our goal is to 1st mover market share in HSR. It is not about short term profit. If it is about profit, we would have fled already.

The key is how much cash you have in your coffer to burn

If the Japanese invests in Thai and Indonesian projects without paying regard to profitability, then we can just act as another bidder tendering at our lowest margins and knowing how much lower the bids could be. If the Japanese always wins at the lowest bid. this will suck them out of financial capabilities until they're dried up. This strategy of giving away profits and ultra generous financial arrangements to the users of the HSR cannot last too long for the Japanese

Until the users of the HSR know in a decade or so later that the Japanese is going to recoup their constructions and financial losses through outrageous price tags in repair and maintennace supplies, the reputation of the Japanese venture into global HSR will further rot from there, Taiwan HSR's failure is a classic example

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Can you give explanation for that? Why you can say japanese is better than China in HSR Development?

1st, based on the safety record, Japan has a perfect safety record for HRS operation.
2nd, Japan has operated and mastered HSR technology much longer than China.
3rd, Japan in general have offered a better proposal, except the time constraint that really put a break for the deal.

It is based on hie emotional feeling only. Indonesia will be ruined if this type of person runs the country. Things is done not based on emotion.

China will surely be ruined if this type of person, with much suspicion on everyone and everything, hold any position to decide governmental matters, moreover runs a country. You can't embrace the world with paranoia.

 

[Beast]

1st, based on the safety record, Japan has a perfect safety record for HRS operation.
2nd, Japan has operated and mastered HSR technology much longer than China.
3rd, Japan in general have offered a better proposal, except the time constraint that really put a break for the deal.




China will surely be ruined if this type of person, with much suspicion on everyone and everything, hold any position to decide governmental matters, moreover runs a country. You can't embrace the world with paranoia.

Amagasaki rail crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Surely no one is perfect and if boeing or airbus has a plane crash. Probably Indonesian shall stop buying all passenger aircraft?

As for HSR technology, you claimed Japan master longer and yet the ever improving breakthrough HSR tech is from China?

China Leading the World in High-Speed Rail Technology: Xinan Professor : News : Yibada

China's High-Speed-Rail Revolution | MIT Technology Review

More importantly, China has proven to be expert in tunnelling for HSR track. This is especially critical in area of high hills and obstacle.

I suggest you go read up more of China HSR technology rather than based your conclusion becos of the popularity of Japan Manga or PS4 game console which gives a misled conception Japan has an edge in these gigantic heavy industries technology. Go youtube and see plenty of foreign giving thumbs up on their ride on China HSR through out China province.

Lastly, the offer by Chinese in term of cash payout and time complete is far superior than Japan offer. There is no reason to reject Chinese offer. China has export HSR to Turkey and Russia

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Amagasaki rail crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Surely no one is perfect and if boeing or airbus has a plane crash. Probably Indonesian shall stop buying all passenger aircraft?

We know that accident happen sometimes, whether that caused by human error or system failure. But when we talk about HSR safety record, until today, Japan's HSR operation hasn't been dented by accident, and that's a plus in my book.

As for HSR technology, you claimed Japan master longer and yet the ever improving breakthrough HSR tech is from China?
- China Leading the World in High-Speed Rail Technology: Xinan Professor : News : Yibada
- China's High-Speed-Rail Revolution | MIT Technology Review
More importantly, China has proven to be expert in tunnelling for HSR track. This is especially critical in area of high hills and obstacle.

No one will deny that China have achieved expertise in design, inovation and construction regarding HSR development. Hat off and salute to your country achievment. But, that said fact doesn't make Japan technology is in any sense inferior.
To the contrary, Japan has achieved that capability a long tome ago, and in the process help to revolutionized the HSR technology.

Maybe now it's your country's turn, but any claim have to be tested and be proven by time. Regardless China achievement to build the longest HSR network in the world, it is still considered a recent development, time will tell and time will be the judge for the claim.

Furthermore, China's expertise in tunneling for HSR track, will be seen as a requirement, a condition that has to be met by any party that willing to bid for HSR project. Japan in this regard also possess the same capability.

I suggest you go read up more of China HSR technology rather than based your conclusion becos of the popularity of Japan Manga or PS4 game console which gives a misled conception Japan has an edge in these gigantic heavy industries technology.

Ah, so you're a psychic, what a great power you have there. So, beside that funny story of yours, what else can you tell about me? about my future maybe? what i'm thinking right now? How it really feels, to be able to judge people that live far away from you, that you don't really know... Do you feel smart? do you feel special?

Lastly, the offer by Chinese in term of cash payout and time complete is far superior than Japan offer. There is no reason to reject Chinese offer. China has export HSR to Turkey and Russia

Like i already stated many times before, Japan proposal is far superior than China, from construction cost, to payment term. But one critical area will put brake on Japan HSR deal, Time. This is where China proposal shine, 3 years construction time indeed very interesting option that will change the battle equation.

Although i also have some doubt about this 3 years claim because in the previous project, China completed the Turkey HSR project in almost 10 years, marred with many delay and accident.

China Exports High-Speed Rail Technology to Turkey - NYTimes.com

 

[IR-TR]

Indonesia in the future will have every inch of it's land connected by HSR. There is enough for both Japan and China. Sadly, Indonesia isn't yet in a financial/economic position to split between the two countries, i.e. not enough money to splurge on multiple lines and split them like between Airbus and Boeing to keep both happy.

 

[Mr.Nair]

We know that accident happen sometimes, whether that caused by human error or system failure. But when we talk about HSR safety record, until today, Japan's HSR operation hasn't been dented by accident, and that's a plus in my book.




No one will deny that China have achieved expertise in design, inovation and construction regarding HSR development. Hat off and salute to your country achievment. But, that said fact doesn't make Japan technology is in any sense inferior.
To the contrary, Japan has achieved that capability a long tome ago, and in the process help to revolutionized the HSR technology.

Maybe now it's your country's turn, but any claim have to be tested and be proven by time. Regardless China achievement to build the longest HSR network in the world, it is still considered a recent development, time will tell and time will be the judge for the claim.

Furthermore, China's expertise in tunneling for HSR track, will be seen as a requirement, a condition that has to be met by any party that willing to bid for HSR project. Japan in this regard also possess the same capability.




Ah, so you're a psychic, what a great power you have there. So, beside that funny story of yours, what else can you tell about me? about my future maybe? what i'm thinking right now? How it really feels, to be able to judge people that live far away from you, that you don't really know... Do you feel smart? do you feel special?




Like i already stated many times before, Japan proposal is far superior than China, from construction cost, to payment term. But one critical area will put brake on Japan HSR deal, Time. This is where China proposal shine, 3 years construction time indeed very interesting option that will change the battle equation.

Although i also have some doubt about this 3 years claim because in the previous project, China completed the Turkey HSR project in almost 10 years, marred with many delay and accident.

China Exports High-Speed Rail Technology to Turkey - NYTimes.com

Unfortunately we faced bad experience by a new chinese locomotive in metro train, not in HSR

'State of the art' Mumbai Metro suffers leakage due to rain in first month | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

@pr1v4t33r

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Unfortunately we faced bad experience by a new chinese locomotive in metro train, not in HSR. 'State of the art' Mumbai Metro suffers leakage due to rain in first month | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis. @pr1v4t33r

Thanks for the heads up. What a mess.

 

[Beast]

Like i already stated many times before, Japan proposal is far superior than China, from construction cost, to payment term. But one critical area will put brake on Japan HSR deal, Time. This is where China proposal shine, 3 years construction time indeed very interesting option that will change the battle equation.

Although i also have some doubt about this 3 years claim because in the previous project, China completed the Turkey HSR project in almost 10 years, marred with many delay and accident.

China Exports High-Speed Rail Technology to Turkey - NYTimes.com

If you bother to read the article, the delay and accident is all man made sabotage by Erodgn rival. If you given this project to aliens or Japanese. It might even be delay further compare to Chinese.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

If you bother to read the article, the delay and accident is all man made sabotage by Erodgn rival. If you given this project to aliens or Japanese. It might even be delay further compare to Chinese.

I did read that part. But the same situation can happen in Indonesia, Particularly in the land acquisition process, that will not be easy nor fast. Do you still have confident that China contractor will be able to complete the HSR project in 3 years time, knowing well that unpredicted problems might arise.

 

[Nike]

I think Japanese had more experience than China when we are talking about big project in Indonesia..... they had a ton experience to handle land acquisition problems in our country than the Chinese firm.

 

[Beast]

I did read that part. But the same situation can happen in Indonesia, Particularly in the land acquisition process, that will not be easy nor fast. Do you still have confident that China contractor will be able to complete the HSR project in 3 years time, knowing well that unpredicted problems might arise.

So you are saying Japanese will not have acquisition problem when doing HSR project? If Japan promise you 10 years , probably will end up 15 years for the project to be completed. If China one is delayed by few years, I will still say its much better than Japanese timing. As for delay, you need not worry too much. Every project always has a clause to penalise any delay. No company will choose the delay option unless the problem is too big to deal with and need local government support to solve it.

I think Japanese had more experience than China when we are talking about big project in Indonesia..... they had a ton experience to handle land acquisition problems in our country than the Chinese firm.

Are you sure what are you talking abt? That is why I say, many people has misconception of China project. Its base on conception rather than real facts.

Three presidents inaugurate rebuilt Benguela Railway - Railway Gazette

Angola rail line, built by China, gets rolling - World - Chinadaily.com.cn

Next Big Future: China built high speed rail in Turkey and is building economically important rail in Africa

China Railway Construction wins $12 billion Nigeria deal: Xinhua| Reuters

 

[pr1v4t33r]

So you are saying Japanese will not have acquisition problem when doing HSR project? If Japan promise you 10 years , probably will end up 15 years for the project to be completed. If China one is delayed by few years, I will still say its much better than Japanese timing. As for delay, you need not worry too much. Every project always has a clause to penalise any delay. No company will choose the delay option unless the problem is too big to deal with and need local government support to solve it.

I think Japanese had more experience than China when we are talking about big project in Indonesia..... they had a ton experience to handle land acquisition problems in our country than the Chinese firm.

I do think Japan put longer time frame since they have already considering that many problem might arise in the construction process. But still, over 10years time to build 150Km HSR is such a drag. This one clause is really a deal-breaker.

 

[Nike]

I do think Japan put longer time frame since they have already considering that many problem might arise in the construction process. But still, over 10years time to build 150Km HSR is such a drag. This one clause is really a deal-breaker.

Jakarta Bandung area is has been crowded with populations, not easy to made them gave away their land possession, not to mention on how to made an safe route in such overcrowded area like Jakarta-Bandung.... ten years from now is acceptable enough to me if you want a safe routes for HSR

 

[XiaoYaoZi]

I did read that part. But the same situation can happen in Indonesia, Particularly in the land acquisition process, that will not be easy nor fast. Do you still have confident that China contractor will be able to complete the HSR project in 3 years time, knowing well that unpredicted problems might arise.

The only export achievement of Japanese HSR is the Taiwan metro line that was built for over 20 years. And now Taiwan's metro line face the bankruptcy problem at any time because of the heavy debt caused by Japanese expensive maintenance service charge.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Jakarta Bandung area is has been crowded with populations, not easy to made them gave away their land possession, not to mention on how to made an safe route in such overcrowded area like Jakarta-Bandung.... ten years from now is acceptable enough to me if you want a safe routes for HSR

Yeah, such a hard battle. 3 years construction time is really appealing. Moreover for the president, that will end his 1st administration period in 2019. Completing HSR project would become one of his many cards for winning the election battle for him.

Japan really need to step up the game to keep the balance.