BREAKING NEWS: LAL MASJID

[Adux]

PS you can't add a mod to your ignore list, we enjoy full immunity...so you're stuck with me!

bugger, you were the first in my list of ignore!!!!!!

 

[Neo]

Hey...shyt happens.

 

[dabong1]

Exactly what I said, Small entity or not assymetric warfare propagated by Private individuals is not acceptable in a civilized world.


I dont condone anything, I am against war, but i am not going to and I WILL not equate WAR , politics played by State actors to that of a some nutjobs hijacking a civilian plane crashing it into a building, while the mastermind sits in some cave.

WAR WAR WAR WAR, please dont equate that with terrorism. If Iraqi jets flew into United States of America and blew up the Twin Towers, You wouldnt hear me say ****. If a Pakistani jet overflew my house while they have declared war on India, I better run my behind to a shelter.


Simiplistic minds!!! How? The whole reason we have an entity of called Nation states is to have an identity, accountablity and blah blah. War is trait of a Human being. It will happen for one reason or the other. When an idiot pulls it off it is SO much worse. Like it or not if Iraqi jets attacked USA, nobody would call it Terrorism. If Pakistan attacked Indian Parliment nobody would call it terrorism. Nation States Sir, Nation States.

I by no means will ever compare a soldier of any country to that of a terrorist. They have no excuses, none at all.

Adux i call the actions of the indian army in kashmir terrorism,you say that the indian army is carring out counter terrorism operations.Its just wordplay.
If i have you a fight i will not fight to your rules, that you have drawn up to benefit your strengths.
What about the great indian "freedom fighter" Chandra Bose who backed the nazi's during the war and fought against the british indian army.Is his potrait not hanging in your parliment a nazi sympathizer.

 

[dabong1]

Does everybody agree with this argument that ' Madrassas are against islam'. Im confused now!!!

Im confused also,which Madrassa did osama go to?
Ayman al zawahri which madrassa did he go to.
The 9/11 bombers 7/7 london bombers or the recent glasgow bomber which madrassa did they go to?
I think i have got a link.Muslim taught in western schools or given a western education turn into terrorist,just like all of the above.
I just put 2 and 2 together and coming out with 5.

 

[Adux]

Adux i call the actions of the indian army in kashmir terrorism,you say that the indian army is carring out counter terrorism operations.Its just wordplay.
If i have you a fight i will not fight to your rules, that you have drawn up to benefit your strengths.
What about the great indian "freedom fighter" Chandra Bose who backed the nazi's during the war and fought against the british indian army.Is his potrait not hanging in your parliment a nazi sympathizer.

I admire Bose, but I dont agree with his choice of allies as well as his methods. But then again it was War. WORLD WAR II

I am sorry you can blame Indian army which is under the Indian Government which in turn is elected by the Indian People. The Indian Government is bound by lot of International Treaties, You can call Indian Army as a Terrorist your wish I dont care.

There is no difference between Pakistani Army and the Indian Army, They follow certain codes etc etc. Does Islamic Jihad and Warrior's of Allah or the LTTE do that, How are they accountable, who elected them, who told them YOU CAN REPRESENT US. There is the difference my friend. Please lets not going into circles anymore.
If Pakistani Army Attacks Indian Land, then it is War, now is Osama Bin Laden it is terrorism.

Nation States. That is the way civilized world works, EVERYONE of the COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD.

Let me put it this way Indian Army Represents ME, Does Osama Bin Laden represent YOU, or is it Pakistani Army

 

[A.Rahman]

UPDATE:

-- A kid managed to escape. He says there's about 80 males and 40 females inside.
-- Kid says they were all given a piece of paper to hold and it read something like, "I am a victim of Army's atrocity."
-- He said most were being held against their will.

 

[Adux]

I hope everybody is ok,
Time for the SSG to move in,

 

[Chrome9]

Well If what the Kid say's about people being held against their own wishes then I dont think it's time to use any aggresive force. Rather carry on because there's still innocent Pakistani's in there. SSG's should only be sent in when It's certain only hardcore militants and those who senior clerics who organised this movement are left. Untill then turn up the phycological warfare a a notch higher.

 

[dabong1]

There is no difference between Pakistani Army and the Indian Army, They follow certain codes etc etc. Does Islamic Jihad and Warrior's of Allah or the LTTE do that, How are they accountable, who elected them, who told them YOU CAN REPRESENT US. There is the difference my friend. Please lets not going into circles anymore.

The IRA where not elected no where ETA, both are classed as terrorist.If you had asked the british or spanish govt before 9/11 these where the worst terrorist.The IRA are now in government and ETA sooner or later will have a peace treaty with the spanish govt.
In history every group that stood up against colonial rule was classed as rebel/militant/guerilla and the favourite at the moment is terrorist.
Is osama not correct then when he says that the people of the countries fighting against iraq/afghanistan are fair target becauce unlike the muslim countries where the rulers are not representing the peoples view the democratic countries are representing the views and wishes of the people that have voted them in which is they want them to attack these countries.
So how are the people that voted in the "crusader states" not fair targets when with there vote they have said go and attack iraq/afgahnistan.
Not my view but same as your logic.

If Pakistani Army Attacks Indian Land, then it is War, now is Osama Bin Laden it is terrorism. .

Have you not heard about the WAR on terror.

Let me put it this way Indian Army Represents ME, Does Osama Bin Laden represent YOU, or is it Pakistani Army

The british army represents me...unfortunately

 

[bhangra12345]

The british army represents me...unfortunately

Dabong,

I dont know whether I should say this. But is this not the root of all problems faced British muslims of pakistani descent?

You are a british citizen and instead of saying proudly that british army represent me, you used the words, "unfortunately". Which means you wanted to be represented by someone else(Pakistani, I guess). I dont know what to say.

If this is the level of integration of an educated person, I can only imagine what will be the level of integration of a madarsa educated one. Do you understand what I am saying? You are saying that I want to not only be different due to religion but also due to my ancestral country and yearn for it more than the country to whom you owe your life to.

OR is it simply a case of me reading too much into a single word?

Mods: Sorry for digressing off the topic, but the words "unfortunately" got me spinning.

 

[kidwaibhai]

Profile: Abdul Rashid Ghazi
Sanjay Dasgupta
BBC News

Abdul Rashid Ghazi
Mr Ghazi said he would rather die than concede to the government
He is bespectacled and articulate - an alumnus of one of Pakistan's most prominent universities, the Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad.

This may not fit one's mental image of a militant Islamist, a jihadi.

But for the hundreds of hardliners holed up inside Islamabad's radical Red Mosque (Lal Masjid), Abdul Rashid Ghazi is the leader.

He has come a long way since his days as a student of history with moderate views, who had a relatively westernised lifestyle and worked, for a time, at the UN's culture organisation, Unesco.

His life changed when his father Abdullah Aziz, who headed the Red Mosque, was shot dead by a lone gunman, believed to be from a rival Islamic group.

He joined his elder brother, Abdul Aziz, who took over the mosque in 1998 and nominated him as his deputy.

This is where Abdul Rashid Ghazi's route to hardline Islam becomes less open to public scrutiny.

No surrender

There are dark hints of links with Pakistani intelligence services, and then the Taleban in Afghanistan.

Armoured Personnel Carriers outside the Red Mosque
Pakistani troops have besieged the mosque since Tuesday
What is clear is that by the time the US launched its campaign in Afghanistan and Pakistan's President Musharraf chose to support it, Abdul Rashid Ghazi's friends said there was no trace left of the moderate history student.

He had agitated against President Musharraf at that time.

Now, years later, he has thrown down another hardline Islamist challenge to the Pakistani president and the forces laying siege to the Red Mosque.

"We will not agree to any condition which makes it appear that we have made the slightest concession or that we have bowed to pressure from the government," he told the BBC.

"We would rather die than to make any such concession."

Last Wednesday, his brother Abdul Aziz was caught trying to flee in a burqa, the traditional dress used by Muslim women that covers of the body from head to toe.

But Abdul Rashid Ghazi still remains inside, defying the security forces to launch a frontal attack on the mosque.

Such an attack would almost certainly lead to huge casualties, something President Musharraf seems understandably keen to avoid.

 

[KashifAsrar]

And you call yourself an Indian, A nation made for all kinds of people, albiet with all its problems, still has made tiny steps and rather loving and spreading its idea's. You stand for something that is exact opposite. I would have called you a word, but then i am nobody to call you that.

Yes I do call my self an Indian and do not need a citizenship certificate from you!
Would you elaborate what opposing goals I stand for?

Kashif

 

[KashifAsrar]

I thank god that other Indian Muslims dont think like you.

What is wrong about it?
Opposing the killing people of your country and origin is a sin?
I do not agree with Lal-Masjid brigade weilding AK47s. I defintely do not agree. Masjid is a place of worship not a place of confrontation. What they did is wrong. definitely wrong. But then the way this episode is handled by government make it clear that Musharraf government also do not put human rights at a level higher than western forces in muslim countries do. Every body would jump and say look we did do all efforts to save the innocent people inside the mosque. I agree. But then these mullahs who have done a wrond thing, still share those human rights! They are still Pakistanis! They deserve a court hearing! If government want to expose them then do it legally! So that every one, even those who support them, know where these people stand. But then this is a risky process for a dictator like Musharraf. It might expose otherwise hidden agenda of government, if there is one!

Overall the situation is more complex, because of the poor and misguided policies of both the sides; those inside the masjid and those outside. With the guns and besieged people inside, this had to happen. If these so called 'Mujahid' have any difference with government, they must fight it out democratically or not then openly; but defenitely not by using a masjid as fort! On this point I agree with others!
Kashif

 

[KashifAsrar]

Get lost man. Are you from India? You are putting tri colour to shame by making such statement in a public forum.

I dont what sharia law is, but i know the basic of anything good ie live and let live.

You get lost with all your *******!
I am from India and as I said I do not a certificate of patriotism or nationality from people like you!
It is you who are putting your true RSS mentality at display all the time on this forum. Come to true senses.
What Sharia, you even don't know what true Hinduism is! Sharia is a far cry for you.
Kashif

 

[KashifAsrar]

Kashif they dont want Sharia Laws all they want to keep holding the illegal 14 kanals land worth billions of Rupees, by using such tactics.

These two idiot brothers are just using the students.

As niaz said it very well, there is no such law or order in Islam which advocates taking law of the land into hands.

Rather according to Islamic rules it everyone is has to obey the decision of Khalifa-e-Wakat (the ruler) about the state.

I agree Jana, these people are really the one who would put any body at risk. I do not approve their policies. Definitely not.
I agree with Niaz on this. I really do. But as you said that Musharraf is Khilaf-e-waqt and must be obeyed, He is not Khilaf-e-waqt! For this the approval of the people is MUST and he lacks it. Think judiciousely and honestly here. Is he a true Khilaf-e-waqt?
Kashif