BMD tested successfully

[Srinivas]

Um, are you sure you have enough knowledge to have a technical debate on this matter?

LRTR/Green Pine may be able track the entire bird species in Pakistani airspace, but that is not what matters. The interceptor needs to be placed at a very uncomfortably close distance to the target to achieve any of what you claimed above.

This is how the real world works, its not a G.I.Joe movie.

Your meaning less arrogance aside, what makes you feel that India cannot place the interceptor close to border?

Just look at the map of Pakistan hardly 300 Km depth.

It is not a G.I joe move but starwars concept you got it wrong there.

 

[Safriz]

Hi shaheen!
I am not into radars anymore but let me give it a shot!Well, Yes of course there are limits to the max speed of the target tracked. But it is more to do with processing constraints and UN-ambigous range. Remember a low PRF is needed to cover a large range but a high PRF is needed to find velocities of high speed targets. Normally a doppler processor can process velocities upto +/-0.5PRF of the radar.
One can use various ambiguity resolving algorithms like PRF jittering to better strike a balance between range requirement and velocity detection. But these come at a cost of processing. At the end you'd only be able to track a target with certain velocity limits and max unambiguous range!


I highly doubt this figure as it doesnt conform well with the projectile model of the RV. The velocity of american RVs just before re-entry is close to 20M. I dont think any IRBM of either shaheen-2,3 or ababeel or even Agni-1,2 would be able to generate such higher re-entry velocities.

And yes greenpine is a very capable radar. Believe it or not,Israelis are just behind US in AESA tech--they have in fact surpassed Europeans in many aspects of radar engineering!

I posted a document above. The Israelis only claim to have ability of tracking Tactical missiles, not SRBM or IRBM.
Also surface area of Shaheem 3 warhead is 2.88 m2.
Depending on aspect, the radar reflective area available for bouncing off radar energy for detection will be even lower.
From how far any radar can detect or track such small target is open to speculations.

 

[Mrc]

India can track the missile immediately after launch and can intercept. Pakistan is right next to India and is within the range of Green pine radars.

India no need to go for exo atmospheric interceptors vis-a-vis pakistan. Exo atmospheric and mid course interceptions are for chinese missiles.

The moment Pakistan develops nuclear triad that is when India needs exo atmosperic interceptors. As of now India can track the launches from pakistani territory and can immediately launch counter measures, also can track the missile with pin point accuracy.

The missile is very vulnerable during its boost phase and at that time it cannot deploy its MIRVs.

So indian missiles with max alt for engagement of 120 km can shoot down a missile cruising at 600 km height...

Even US cannot imagine such a feat...

Bravo....

P.s prime example of a brain fart

 

[amardeep mishra]

The Israelis only claim to have ability of tracking Tactical missiles, not SRBM or IRBM.
Also surface area of Shaheem 3 warhead is 2.88 m2.

Hi shaheen!
Well that is not entirely correct,the greenpine can very easily detect and track IRBS.I guess you're getting confused with semantics. It is one of the most capable radars out there in it's category. There are things which of course cant be revealed but it can very easily track targets with velocities in vicinity of 22M.why?Because their own official link says that it can very easily detect satellites in orbit-
A satellite at roughly 500kms alt is revolving around earth at 22M
But then again it is my guess based on the brochure.
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/36563-27136-en/ELTA - Systems by Product Lines.aspx

Your meaning less arrogance aside, what makes you feel that India cannot place the interceptor close to border?

Just look at the map of Pakistan hardly 300 Km depth.

It is not a G.I joe move but starwars concept you got it wrong there.

calm down calm down! One must patiently listen to what others are saying.

 

[Srinivas]

So indian missiles with max alt for engagement of 120 km can shoot down a missile cruising at 600 km height...

Even US cannot imagine such a feat...

Bravo....

P.s prime example of a brain fart

The boost phase is the portion of the flight of a ballistic missile or space vehicle during which the booster and sustainer engines operate until it reaches peak velocity. This phase can take 3 to 4 minutes for a solid rocket (shorter for a liquid-propellant rocket), the altitude at the end of this phase is 150–200 km, and the typical burn-out speed is 7 km/s. Boost-phase intercept is a type of missile defense technology that would be designed to disable enemy missiles while they are still in the boost phase

Based on the optimum calculations India has 4 to 5 mins of time to intercept the missile in boost phase. These days interceptors are quicker.

Hi shaheen!
Well that is not entirely correct,the greenpine can very easily detect and track IRBS.I guess you're getting confused with semantics. It is one of the most capable radars out there in it's category. There are things which of course cant be revealed but it can very easily track targets with velocities in vicinity of 8-9M


calm down calm down! One must patiently listen to what others are saying.

These guys think pdf titles for real !

 

[The Deterrent]

Your meaning less arrogance aside, what makes you feel that India cannot place the interceptor close to border?

Just look at the map of Pakistan hardly 300 Km depth.

It is not a G.I joe move but starwars concept you got it wrong there.

Let me get this straight. You are proposing deployment of interceptors (AAD/PAD - with a engagement altitude of 30-150km) within 50-100km of the possible target launch point, and assuming that somehow everything will fall into place at the right moment and the interceptor will literally chase the target, pulling high Gs and intercept it...all under 2-3 minutes.

Sure, why not? I'm confident that the in case of a conflict, the Pakistani ASFC will ring-up DRDO to airlift the ABMs from India and deploy them next to the ballistic missiles, and coordinate the launch of both the ballistic missile and the interceptor at the same time to see which goes faster. That would be quite a sight, a d!ck-measuring contest in every sense of the word.

 

[Crixus]

How you so sure that Israilis will disclose all their cards , in a promotional video or a released paper , its good for us if you think we are incapable .@DavidSling @500 what you think , is Israel disclose every aspect of a weapon in papers and promotional videos

I posted a document above. The Israelis only claim to have ability of tracking Tactical missiles, not SRBM or IRBM.
Also surface area of Shaheem 3 warhead is 2.88 m2.
Depending on aspect, the radar reflective area available for bouncing off radar energy for detection will be even lower.
From how far any radar can detect or track such small target is open to speculations.

 

[Srinivas]

Let me get this straight. You are proposing deployment of interceptors (AAD/PAD - with a engagement altitude of 30-150km) within 50-100km of the possible target launch point, and assuming that somehow everything will fall into place at the right moment and the interceptor will literally chase the target, pulling high Gs and intercept it...all under 2-3 minutes.

Sure, why not? I'm confident that the in case of a conflict, the Pakistani ASFC will ring-up DRDO to airlift the ABMs from India and deploy them next to the ballistic missiles, and coordinate the launch of both the ballistic missile and the interceptor at the same time to see which goes faster. That would be quite a sight, a d!ck-measuring contest in every sense of the word.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2000_09/bpisept00

Check out this link, a satellite can confirm the launch in 10 secs.

 

[Mrc]

Based on the optimum calculations India has 4 to 5 mins of time to intercept the missile in boost phase. These days interceptors are quicker.

Thats more than total flight time of irbm u jack ***

Bus google kya wiki parha saray jahan chutya bana diya

 

[The Deterrent]

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2000_09/bpisept00

Check out this link, a satellite can confirm the launch in 10 secs.

As I said before, its not about the detection. Even the Swordfish or an AWACS can detect the launch, the point is that there is simply no time to react. The above article accurately proposes such a system, assuming an ICBM-class liquid fueled missile launch against continental US. Pakistan MRBMs have much shorter boost phases, maxing out at around 2-3 minutes for the longest ranged ones.

I recommend you to check out ballistic missile & BMD basics first, considering the Indo/Pak threat environment and capabilities, before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Srinivas]

As I said before, its not about the detection. Even the Swordfish or an AWACS can detect the launch, the point is that there is simply no time to react. The above article accurately proposes such a system, assuming an ICBM-class liquid fueled missile launch against continental US. Pakistan MRBMs have much shorter boost phases, maxing out at around 2-3 minutes for the longest ranged ones.

I recommend you to check out ballistic missile & BMD basics first, considering the Indo/Pak threat environment and capabilities, before jumping to conclusions.

I am not concluding or judging anything.

Lets say Pakistan launched a missile from Baluchistan to target Delhi, the distance is 1,171 Km.

If we consider a parabolic trajectory, then the distance the missile has to travel becomes 2000 Kms. The missile has to ascend close to 600 Kms. Considering the speed of the missiles as 4 Km/sec(varies from 4 to 7 kms based on solid or liquid propellant and missile characteristics) , the missile has to travel for 3 to 4 mins to complete boost phase (600 Km) in a predictable path.

Total flight path is close to 10 mins. So there is enough time to respond and destroy the missile in boost phase.

If Pakistan launches missiles targeting further deep into Indian territory, the time to respond increases further.

If India deploys aegis like system in Arabian sea, the interception can be done in even lesser time.

 

[500]

Although it's another thing that manufacturers brochure only says tactical ballistic missiles. No mention of SRBM or IRBM
http://www.iai.co.il/Sip_Storage//FILES/1/41551.pdf

Green Pine radar is used in Arrow-2 and Arrow 3 systems.

Arrow-2 intercepts ballistic missiles with 1,500 km range and Arrow-3 with 2,400 km range.

 

[Safriz]

So..... After my gimping spree, some details have emerged out of lindian PDV.
Write here what you see
@The Deterrent
زرا ایک نظر ڈالیۓ اور مشاہدات کا اظہار کیجۓ

@Nilgiri

 

[kṣamā]

Your meaning less arrogance aside, what makes you feel that India cannot place the interceptor close to border?

Just look at the map of Pakistan hardly 300 Km depth.

It is not a G.I joe move but starwars concept you got it wrong there.

Dude he has got a point. These interceptors are not designed nor optimised for chase. Plus I am not sure even with a low head start of 10sec our fastest Solid Booster rockets can catch up, at least not with the service ceiling we have on those things. Now if you say that we can gain altitude much faster then we are talking.

I posted a document above. The Israelis only claim to have ability of tracking Tactical missiles, not SRBM or IRBM.
Also surface area of Shaheem 3 warhead is 2.88 m2.
Depending on aspect, the radar reflective area available for bouncing off radar energy for detection will be even lower.
From how far any radar can detect or track such small target is open to speculations.

Are mere bahi, mere bade prah! Aap ko mai kaise samjha? Kis language me samjhau? This is an irrelevant fact. For all practical purposes this no one is bothered about the RCS. It will be single largest IR emitter after sun itself. Plus we are placing a really good IR detector not on on the general direction, we are placing it on absolutely the best intercept path possible. Plus you have no way to alter trajectory. In a perfect world, if they get interceptor in air, I would say it would be like shooting duck in a barrel. But I would won't say that. A million things can go wrong and will go wrong.

So indian missiles with max alt for engagement of 120 km can shoot down a missile cruising at 600 km height...

Even US cannot imagine such a feat...

Bravo....

P.s prime example of a brain fart

Thanks for taking my advice. Thank You.

Based on the optimum calculations India has 4 to 5 mins of time to intercept the missile in boost phase. These days interceptors are quicker.

Umm maybe. But I am not sure the IR detectors can "See" and discriminate the target.

These guys think pdf titles for real !

TRUE buddy.

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So..... After my gimping spree, some details have emerged out of lindian PDV.
Write here what you see

This maybe your first productive post on this thread.

Good job.

 

[The Deterrent]

I am not concluding or judging anything.

Lets say Pakistan launched a missile from Baluchistan to target Delhi, the distance is 1,171 Km.

If we consider a parabolic trajectory, then the distance the missile has to travel becomes 2000 Kms. The missile has to ascend close to 600 Kms. Considering the speed of the missiles as 4 Km/sec(varies from 4 to 7 kms based on solid or liquid propellant and missile characteristics) , the missile has to travel for 3 to 4 mins to complete boost phase (600 Km) in a predictable path.

Total flight path is close to 10 mins. So there is enough time to respond and destroy the missile in boost phase.

If Pakistan launches missiles targeting further deep into Indian territory, the time to respond increases further.

If India deploys aegis like system in Arabian sea, the interception can be done in even lesser time.

You still have no idea about how a ballistic missile trajectory is shaped, neither about the lateral ranges of interceptors.

1. Boost phase DOES NOT continue till apogee (or whatever you mean by 600km). It is much shorter, for example, the Minuteman-III has a burn-out altitude of 190km.

2. Again, Pakistani missiles DO NOT have boost-phase duration of general ICBMs (3-5 mins). Case in point, the Minuteman-II has a burn-out time of 3 minutes, and its a solid-fueled ICBM.

Here is some credible literature that may shatter your dreams:
http://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.1650067

Don't forget to read the conclusions of this study.

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View attachment 377065

View attachment 377066

View attachment 377067

View attachment 377068

View attachment 377069

So..... After my gimping spree, some details have emerged out of lindian PDV.
Write here what you see
@The Deterrent
زرا ایک نظر ڈالیۓ اور مشاہدات کا اظہار کیجۓ

@Nilgiri

So you're good at photoshop?