Bangladesh begins construction of two large warships

[Bilal9]

well, I'm at a loss regarding the number of techno comments in this thread... I would leave those details to experts...

but what I'm concerned with is that such abundance of systems and weapons are producing a lot of tactical generals, who are more involved into technicalities rather than strategy.... I haven't seen anyone questioning the deliberate dissimilarity between Azmat-class and Durjoy-class.... the basis of those two classes are not the same, which seems to have avoided everyone's attention.... this resulted in unnecessary debate on weapons configuration.... but none talked about the significant design differences that makes Durjoy-class more seaworthy than Azmat-class...

Azmat-class is an offensive platform with longer-range missiles, whereas Durjoy-class is a flexible design with options for wartime roles as deep-sea escorts... the two ships' design realities differ in terms of their practical operational areas - Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.... a ship's roles decide how it should look like and geopolitics decides which weapons systems seem more fit on them...

• I'd definitely agree that Azmat Class is more offensive than Durjoy class as it carries twice the number of missiles.
• Azmat Class is smaller - 500 tonnes vs. 650 tonnes for Durjoy Class.
• I don't know if Durjoy class should have a CIWS and why they opted not to fit one.
• It seems (as discussed) a CIWS or equivalent is definitely needed as a last ditch (3rd Tier) defensive measure after the long-range and medium range anti-missile defensive tools.

Let's ask @Penguin bhai (since he is the subject-matter expert) what the differences are between the two classes as I believe we haven't discussed them.

 

[Penguin]

• I'd definitely agree that Azmat Class is more offensive than Durjoy class as it carries twice the number of missiles.
• Azmat Class is smaller - 500 tonnes vs. 650 tonnes for Durjoy Class.
• I don't know if Durjoy class should have a CIWS and why they opted not to fit one.
• It seems (as discussed) a CIWS or equivalent is definitely needed as a last ditch (3rd Tier) defensive measure after the long-range and medium range anti-missile defensive tools.

Let's ask @Penguin bhai (since he is the subject-matter expert) what the differences are between the two classes as I believe we haven't discussed them.

560 tons v 648 tons
4 shafts on 4 diesels versus 2 shafts on 2x diesels
Max Range: 1,000 nautical mile (1,852 kilometer) versus 2,500 nmi (4,600 km)
Top Speed: 30 knot (15.4 mps) versus 28 knots
Crew 12-14 versus 60
So: FAC versus OPC


The FAC is designed to be difficult to detect. It will move in range fast (receiving target info from e.g. an MPA) fire a volley of 8x 180km 715kg (C802A) AShM and turn tail. Hence AK630 in the rear. Twin 25mm forward is against minor surface targets. No ASW.
China State Shipbuilding Corporation, Xingang

OPV is designed to remain out at sea longer i.e. staying power, probably also in bad weather. Hence also larger crew. Has some and shorter range 35km 130kg antiship missiles x4, so it can't be ignored. Mainly gun armament against surface, with usefull AAA secondary role: 76mm plus 2x 25mm twins, no ciws. Some ASW.
Wuchang Shipyard

PNS Azmat Class - Fast Attack Missile Craft | Updates & Discussions.

 

[Bilal9]

well, I'm at a loss regarding the number of techno comments in this thread... I would leave those details to experts...

but what I'm concerned with is that such abundance of systems and weapons are producing a lot of tactical generals, who are more involved into technicalities rather than strategy.... I haven't seen anyone questioning the deliberate dissimilarity between Azmat-class and Durjoy-class.... the basis of those two classes are not the same, which seems to have avoided everyone's attention.... this resulted in unnecessary debate on weapons configuration.... but none talked about the significant design differences that makes Durjoy-class more seaworthy than Azmat-class...

Azmat-class is an offensive platform with longer-range missiles, whereas Durjoy-class is a flexible design with options for wartime roles as deep-sea escorts... the two ships' design realities differ in terms of their practical operational areas - Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.... a ship's roles decide how it should look like and geopolitics decides which weapons systems seem more fit on them...

• I'd definitely agree that Azmat Class is more offensive than Durjoy class as it carries twice the number of missiles.
• Azmat Class is smaller - 500 tonnes vs. 650 tonnes for Durjoy Class.
• I don't know if Durjoy class should have a CIWS and why they opted not to fit one.
• It seems (as discussed) a CIWS or equivalent is definitely needed as a last ditch (3rd Tier) defensive measure after the long-range and medium range anti-missile defensive tools.

Let's ask @Penguin bhai (since he is the subject-matter expert) what the differences are between the two classes as I believe we haven't discussed them.

560 tons v 648 tons
4 shafts on 4 diesels versus 2 shafts on 2x diesels
Max Range: 1,000 nautical mile (1,852 kilometer) versus 2,500 nmi (4,600 km)
Top Speed: 30 knot (15.4 mps) versus 28 knots
Crew 12-14 versus 60
So: FAC versus OPC


The FAC is designed to be difficult to detect. It will move in range fast (receiving target info from e.g. an MPA) fire a volley of 8x 180km 715kg (C802A) AShM and turn tail. Hence AK630 in the rear. Twin 25mm forward is against minor surface targets. No ASW.
China State Shipbuilding Corporation, Xingang

OPV is designed to remain out at sea longer i.e. staying power, probably also in bad weather. Hence also larger crew. Has some and shorter range 35km 130kg antiship missiles x4, so it can't be ignored. Mainly gun armament against surface, with usefull AAA secondary role: 76mm plus 2x 25mm twins, no ciws. Some ASW.
Wuchang Shipyard

PNS Azmat Class - Fast Attack Missile Craft | Updates & Discussions.

Thanks @ Penguin Bhai - your comments are always informative for us.

In the Bangladesh Navy we have a few active FACs but they are aged - we are in dire need of modernization.

Large Patrol Craft (Durjoy class) cannot suffice for active duty as FACs as we all know.

Current FACs mostly consist of tiny 80 ton HEGU (Type 21) and small 200 ton HUANFENG/OSA1 (Type 24) missile boat classes which have had mid-life refreshments with C-802 subbed for silkworm missiles but this is only stopgap measure.

There are also some other obsolete type FACs (Kraljevica class - Yugoslavian) use for ASW FAC training.

I believe the Navy should decide quickly on a modern FAC platform in the 300-500 tonnes range (unless it is already being decided) so we can start building some FACs with ToT without further delay.

This is a big gap in our arsenal. Although we don't have as sophisticated an adversary like Pakistan, we should still fulfill this need without delay. Myanmar is already building Azmat equivalent vessels and have deployed two.

The following profile is then reasonable:

Stealth profile with Low, Low Radar Signature (RCS)
Speed - minimum 35 knots, 60 knots desired - which means,
Powerplant and drive - Gas turbine and twin waterjet (with one optional diesel and middle shaft for slow trawling)
Displacement - 300-500 tonnes
Max Range - 1,000 nautical mile (1,852 kilometer)
Armaments -
8X 180km 715kg (C802A) AShM
Single rooftop CIWS AK630 in the rear
Twin 25mm gun aforeships
Handheld MANPADs (optional pintle-mount on front and rear deck)

This was discussed in the forum some one and a half years ago,

Fast Attack Vessels (40+ kn, endurant and armed with missiles)

I suggest (as an alternative to the China Azmat class choice which the Myanmarese are building locally) the Dutch Damen-designed Indonesian-made KCR-60 Class (built locally in Bangladesh with ToT from PT PAL) - 460 tonnes:

Or Kilic Class (Turkey) -550 tonnes

There are two smaller choices available as well and they are no less potent - suffering only in the endurance dept.

Hayabusa class (Japan) -240 tonnes

Or the Gumdoksuri Class (Korea) - 200 tonnes

 

[Bilal9]

Who brought India into this discussion ? - It was your compatriots

Please add something constructive other than futile useless comparisons....

 

[gslv mk3]

Please add something constructive other than futile useless comparisons....

Tell that to your compatriots

 

[Bilal9]

Tell that to your compatriots

You have seventeen negative ratings - is there a word equivalent to 'shame' in the oriya language? Do you know the meaning? I am right now feeling ashamed to mention this to you...

Bangladesh will never ever have a war with India. We may be brave but we're not stupid. All our defense needs are for (yes) defensive purposes. Now that we've established this - can you kindly leave us alone?

 

[gslv mk3]

You have seventeen negative ratings - is there a word equivalent to 'shame' in the oriya language? Do you know the meaning? I am right now feeling ashamed to mention this to you...

And I hardly give a damn about those.

Don't drag India into these discussions.Understood ?

 

[Bilal9]

And I hardly give a damn about those.

Don't drag India into these discussions.Understood ?

You're ordering me around? Want a little attention?

What is the point of going to a forum - picking fights with everybody?

What difference does it make if someone said something about India?

Is this what defines your life?

Like I said - Bangladeshis don't go over to the India section and cause trouble.

You are doing this right now. If you stopped - that would be appreciated.

 

[gslv mk3]

You're ordering me around? Want a little attention?

That's an advice - stick to that and you'll never find an Indian trolling here.The point here is don't troll bait.

Like I said - Bangladeshis don't go over to the India section

Neither do Indian's claim they are ahead of China in everything - and troll bait.

 

[damiendehorn]

• I'd definitely agree that Azmat Class is more offensive than Durjoy class as it carries twice the number of missiles.
• Azmat Class is smaller - 500 tonnes vs. 650 tonnes for Durjoy Class.
• I don't know if Durjoy class should have a CIWS and why they opted not to fit one.
• It seems (as discussed) a CIWS or equivalent is definitely needed as a last ditch (3rd Tier) defensive measure after the long-range and medium range anti-missile defensive tools.

Let's ask @Penguin bhai (since he is the subject-matter expert) what the differences are between the two classes as I believe we haven't discussed them.


Thanks @ Penguin Bhai - your comments are always informative for us.

In the Bangladesh Navy we have a few active FACs but they are aged - we are in dire need of modernization.

Large Patrol Craft (Durjoy class) cannot suffice for active duty as FACs as we all know.

Current FACs mostly consist of tiny 80 ton HEGU (Type 21) and small 200 ton HUANFENG/OSA1 (Type 24) missile boat classes which have had mid-life refreshments with C-802 subbed for silkworm missiles but this is only stopgap measure.

There are also some other obsolete type FACs (Kraljevica class - Yugoslavian) use for ASW FAC training.

I believe the Navy should decide quickly on a modern FAC platform in the 300-500 tonnes range (unless it is already being decided) so we can start building some FACs with ToT without further delay.

This is a big gap in our arsenal. Although we don't have as sophisticated an adversary like Pakistan, we should still fulfill this need without delay. Myanmar is already building Azmat equivalent vessels and have deployed two.

The following profile is then reasonable:

Stealth profile with Low, Low Radar Signature (RCS)
Speed - minimum 35 knots, 60 knots desired - which means,
Powerplant and drive - Gas turbine and twin waterjet (with one optional diesel and middle shaft for slow trawling)
Displacement - 300-500 tonnes
Max Range - 1,000 nautical mile (1,852 kilometer)
Armaments -
8X 180km 715kg (C802A) AShM
Single rooftop CIWS AK630 in the rear
Twin 25mm gun aforeships
Handheld MANPADs (optional pintle-mount on front and rear deck)

This was discussed in the forum some one and a half years ago,

Fast Attack Vessels (40+ kn, endurant and armed with missiles)

I suggest (as an alternative to the China Azmat class choice which the Myanmarese are building locally) the Dutch Damen-designed Indonesian-made KCR-60 Class (built locally in Bangladesh with ToT from PT PAL) - 460 tonnes:

Or Kilic Class (Turkey) -550 tonnes

There are two smaller choices available as well and they are no less potent - suffering only in the endurance dept.

Hayabusa class (Japan) -240 tonnes

Or the Gumdoksuri Class (Korea) - 200 tonnes

If your looking for some serious fire power in a small package then you need to build something like the Tuo Chiang class. Tuo Chiang-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A local yard like Western Marine could easily build these for less then $39m excluding weapon systems.

 

[Bilal9]

OK we understand each other - let's ask @waz or @Oscar bhai to kindly clean up our little off-topic exchange.

If your looking for some serious fire power in a small package then you need to build something like the Tuo Chiang class. Tuo Chiang-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A local yard like Western Marine could easily build these for less then $39m excluding weapon systems.

This is a Taiwanese boat and its very nice. Doing business with Taiwan however could be a politically sensitive issue. Beijing is hyper-sensitive about these things.

 

[damiendehorn]

This is a Taiwanese boat and its very nice. Doing business with Taiwan however could be a politically sensitive issue. Beijing is hyper-sensitive about these things.

We dont need to buy the ship per say, all we need is for a private yard (like Western Marine) to make a deal with the Taiwanese yard for TOT to build the ship (excluding main weapons systems) in Bangladesh. We have already looked at the options, and as a low cost / high impact system it is very afforable, infact it would cost under $39m for hull/prop and depending on the weapons fit $65m - $70m each.

A build class of 6-8 would give similar fire power as 3 light frigates at lower cost. Currently just 2 Incheon class light frigates from South Korea are being negotiated and from our info will cost us just under $600m.

 

[bdslph]

We dont need to buy the ship per say, all we need is for a private yard (like Western Marine) to make a deal with the Taiwanese yard for TOT to build the ship (excluding main weapons systems) in Bangladesh. We have already looked at the options, and as a low cost / high impact system it is very afforable, infact it would cost under $39m for hull/prop and depending on the weapons fit $65m - $70m each.

A build class of 6-8 would give similar fire power as 3 light frigates at lower cost. Currently just 2 Incheon class light frigates from South Korea are being negotiated and from our info will cost us just under $600m.

PH is buying 2 for 400 mil

 

[Nabil365]

You have seventeen negative ratings - is there a word equivalent to 'shame' in the oriya language? Do you know the meaning? I am right now feeling ashamed to mention this to you...

Bangladesh will never ever have a war with India. We may be brave but we're not stupid. All our defense needs are for (yes) defensive purposes. Now that we've established this - can you kindly leave us alone?

Heh Oreo language speaker,go get attention from some other thread

 

[Nabil365]

@glsv mk3
Don't you have any life?