Avalanche traps 10 Indian army soldiers in Siachen

[Osiris]

India's illegal intervention in Junagadh was prior to the Tribal lashkar entering J&K, and unlike J&K, there was absolutely no ambiguity over the accession of Junagadh to Pakistan, with official Indian communiques to Pakistan recognizing the fact that accession had occurred, while protesting the same.

Wrong on both account!

Pakistani tribal invasion of Kashmir had begun on October 1947, where as Indian forces did not enter Junagadh till november 1947.

There was no ambiguity in Kashmir either. Maharaja of Kashmir hadn't signed over Kashmir to Pakistan...so where was the ambiguity in it. or was Jinnah under the impression, Maharaja had acceded Kashmir to Pakistan but had forgotten any one else about it.

Kashmir was indeed a Pakistani invasion and it predates both Junagadh and Hyderabad.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

We only reacted.

False - the Indian military mounted several overt and covert expeditions to Saichen and protested the demarcation of the LoC on Pakistani and international maps, and therefore created the tensions and escalation prior to occupying the glacier without provocation.

India created the atmosphere of distrust and hostility and then used the very atmosphere it created to justify unprovoked military aggression - Junagadh, Hyederabad, Siachen, East Pakistan, LTTE in Sri Lanka - India's history is replete with examples of unprovoked hostile military aggression against other States.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

False - the Indian military mounted several overt and covert expeditions to Saichen and protested the demarcation of the LoC on Pakistani and international maps, and therefore created the tensions and escalation prior to occupying the glacier without provocation.

India created the atmosphere of distrust and hostility and then used the very atmosphere it created to justify unprovoked military aggression - Junagadh, Hyederabad, Siachen, East Pakistan, LTTE in Sri Lanka - India's history is replete with examples of unprovoked hostile military aggression against other States.

1. Alas, the world does not share your concern/does not agree with you. May be we are right or may be we are better in PR. The Truth never mattered to either of us. Neither should it. We are enemy states.

2. What are you going to do about it even if you consider those as valid?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Wrong on both account!

Pakistani tribal invasion of Kashmir had begun on October 1947, where as Indian forces did not enter Junagadh till november 1947.

What's 'false' is your attempt at comparing 'apples and oranges'. The Tribal Lashkar was not 'Pakistani forces entering J&K' just as India's blockade and stoking of rebellion and unrest inside Junagadh (that occurred long before October 1947) was technically not 'Indian forces entering Junagadh'.

India's illegal intervention in Junagadh (legally a part of Pakistan with the accession) with the deliberate intent (as per historical archives from Indian sources noting the content of Indian government deliberations on the issue) pre-dated the Tribal Lashkar's intervention in J&K.

There was no ambiguity in Kashmir either. Maharaja of Kashmir hadn't signed over Kashmir to Pakistan...so where was the ambiguity in it.

The Maharajah hadn't acceded to India or Pakistan, whereas Junagadh had officially acceded to Pakistan, and India officially recognized the act of accession.

1. Alas, the world does not share your concern/does not agree with you.

The world agrees with the facts and timeline as pointed out by Pakistan - 'concern' is something that world only starts feeling when events have the potential for negatively impacting global stability.

Highlighting Indian distortions of history on whatever platform is available has nothing to do with 'global concern', it is merely a continuing process of ensuring that Indian lies and distortions do not go unchallenged and uncorrected.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The list of absurd excuses to justify unprovoked military aggression continues ...

The following incidents are examples of unprovoked attacks

- 1965: large numbers of regulars and irrelgulars mixed and sent to liberate Kashmir in grandiosely named projects called 'Grand SLam' and 'Gibraltar' (guess Bhutto felt manly when he used big names). India responds by escaling it to full war

-1971: Large infux of refugees because of crackdown. But as a state secret, india realizes that from Week 3 majority of people coming over are actually Hindus. The enlightened pak leadership had decided not only to kill the intelligentsia but also get rid of the 'problematic hindu population' be booted out to India as refugees. Out of the 10 million refugees, India would secretly record that over 5 million were Hindus whose destiny were to remain in India as refugees or otherwise. India decides to teach a lesson that the world won't forget.

- Khalistan: militants armed to teeth with pak weapons create a near civil war situation and we had to quell it with an extremely painful event.

- Kargil: need I need to explain?

Guess what? If you want to play 'grand games' then be man enough to accept that the fight will be bitter and consequences terrible if you lose. Don't WHINE.

 

[The Eagle]

Well all the accession of Kashmir and Siachin thing, is coming in like pieces of Wikipedia which is easily identified.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Indian action was carried out only after determining that there was a sufficiently sound legal basis for doing so. That is why the international community has not done anything in Siachen, as opposed to the Pakistani action in Kargil which was reversed.

The pressure over Kargil was primarily due to the potential of military escalation of a localized conflict into full fledged war and changed global realities (and Pakistan's position in a post Cold-War world) than any 'sound legal basis' of Siachen vs Kargil.

 

[VCheng]

The pressure over Kargil was primarily due to the potential of military escalation of a localized conflict into full fledged war and changed global realities (and Pakistan's position in a post Cold-War world) than any 'sound legal basis' of Siachen vs Kargil.

Sir, the legal basis is as yet untested, but I can assure you that India's case is far more robust over Siachen than Pakistan's.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The following incidents are examples of unprovoked attacks

- The Indian blockade and stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Junagadh

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Hyderabad

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest in East Pakistan

- The Indian support for terrorist organizations like the LTTE in Sri Lanka

- The unprovoked Indian military occupation of Siachen

Your observation (quoted above) is absolutely correct.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The world agrees with the facts and timeline as pointed out by Pakistan - 'concern' is something that world only starts feeling when events have the potential for negatively impacting global stability.

Highlighting Indian distortions of history on whatever platform is available has nothing to do with 'global concern', it is merely a continuing process of ensuring that Indian lies and distortions do not go unchallenged and uncorrected.

Let me clear it out.

Pakistan is the only state to consider India's police actions as invasions.

Pakistan is the only state to consider itself as the possible liberator of Kashmir. Namely Azad Kashmir. Which is not recognized by ANY country in the world. Not even by Pakistan.

With every passing day Pakistan will see itself more cornered. Compare your positions vis a vis India from the 50s, to 60s, 70s to 80s to 90s to today. You will know the trend.

Plus India's growing economic strength will force many unwilling foreign partners to turn away from Pakistan. We are building lobbies to have a greater presence elsewhere. We have capability to cry much more to the world when we are attacked by terrorists. Though it may sound as ridiculous and cowardly, that is just us adjusting to the current situations. The world sympathizes with us. You have gained a reputation on the other hand. We have played our part. Proudly. And will continue to do so. In fact, with Ajit Doval in position - we will look to explore the fissures in Pakistani society. Some of your compatriots say we already do that.

If we do - I will not mind. This is what enemy states are supposed to do to each other. If we are weak - be sure - the Pakistan Armed forces will make a mincemeat out of us. The status quo is due to the respect for each other's nukes. Nothing else.

In the end...what will Pakistan do? Short of funding terror modules in India and other places all around the world? I genuinely wish to know.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Sir, the legal basis is as yet untested, but I can assure you that India's case is far more robust over Siachen than Pakistan's.

If the legal basis is 'untested', as you claim, then your subsequent claim of 'robustness' is just an opinion, which will be validated once the legal basis is 'tested'.

As it stands, the facts are that India protested the maps (Pakistani and international) that showed Siachen as part of Pakistani territory, and created an atmosphere of distrust and sowed the seeds of escalation by mounting multiple covert and overt military expeditions to the glacier.

 

[VCheng]

If the legal basis is 'untested', as you claim, then your subsequent claim of 'robustness' is just an opinion, which will be validated once the legal basis is 'tested'.

As it stands, the facts are that India protested the maps (Pakistani and international) that showed Siachen as part of Pakistani territory, and created an atmosphere of distrust and sowed the seeds of escalation by mounting multiple covert and overt military expeditions to the glacier.

Yes, the legal basis is untested, but my reasons to opine as I did above are supported by primary sources.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

- The Indian blockade and stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Junagadh

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Hyderabad

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest in East Pakistan

- The Indian support for terrorist organizations like the LTTE in Sri Lanka

- The unprovoked Indian military occupation of Siachen

Your observation (quoted above) is absolutely correct.

Chor ulta kotwal ko date.

But since there is no Truth in geopolitics - I wonder, why is Pakistan not pursuing the cases of Hyderabad, Junagad etc in the UN?

Is it an admission of weakness?

 

[Green Angel]

Indian Army is Paying Price for illegal Occupation....

 

[Guynextdoor2]

- The Indian blockade and stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Junagadh

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Hyderabad

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest in East Pakistan

- The Indian support for terrorist organizations like the LTTE in Sri Lanka

- The unprovoked Indian military occupation of Siachen

Your observation (quoted above) is absolutely correct.

Oh did you think I'd flinch?

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest and subsequent illegal military occupation and annexation of Hyderabad
yeah we screwed him and annexed him to secure our territory. Overall a good decision. WE DON'T HAVE TO RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF VASSALS WHO OCCUPIED TERRITORIES BY FORCE AND INHERITED IT.

- The Indian stoking of terrorism, unrest in East Pakistan

Not necessary- you yourself did it way better than we could. Who were you putting incharge? Eisenhower? Douglas McArthur? With people like Yahya Khan and Tikka Khan you guys were gonna make a royal mess out of it yourselves

- The Indian support for terrorist organizations like the LTTE in Sri Lanka
Because they allowed your ships to fuel in 1971

- The unprovoked Indian military occupation of Siachen
You're quite free to stick to this theory.

In each of these actions we take responsibility for our decisions. You don't- that's the difference between Pak and India. Because the day pak military leaders are held responsible for their decisions is when they'll decide that any such grand adventure is not a child's play where you can toy with your country and soldiers.