Aurat Marches to be held across Pakistan to mark Women's Day

[FuturePAF]

Women have to have incomes to have a say in society. And to have incomes, they have to have education and be allowed careers to break the glass ceilings collectively.

And to have power over their own wombs - instead of the patriarchy having it.

I agree with you on most points but ... I don’t think women should have to have an income to have a say. They should have a say just for being a citizens / part of society. The people with real world experience, whether in the home or out, can speak from their experiences and an educated public should be able to tell who is a more credible person.

Also the “power over their own wombs” and “patriarchy” seems kind of a vague statement, but I think I understand your sentiment. They need their rights to say what they want respected and heard in the decision making process, especially over something as personal and central as parenthood.

 

[The Raven]

Your theory kind of falters if you consider that Bangladesh' rate of female labor participation is around 36% now, when it was around 20% just a couple of decades ago. And although not as religious like some other countries, the effect of patriarchy in Bangladesh is probably just as strong. For comparison, US and UK/EU have female labor participation of 50-60%.

I agree that female empowerment is where it's at. Women have to have incomes to have a say in society. And to have incomes, they have to have education and be allowed careers to break the glass ceilings collectively.

And to have power over their own wombs - instead of the patriarchy having it.

Bangladesh followed that path decades ago, deeply following Islamic values nonetheless. Here's a few stories - you'll find quite a few in that channel of how women started off their own incomes). Sorry videos are in Bengali only.

All very good and commendable, but labour participation is only one metric of measurement, and my theory still stands, because if you taking labour participation rate as a measurement of female empowerment, the UAE is at 40%, but still suffers from the patriarchal societal hierarchy I'm referring to. Even the secular democratic states are continuously striving for gender equality. Female empowerment is not only about labour participation, but being allowed to pursue their own path in society at large, without discrimination. And that encompasses everything from empowerment of their own bodies, as well career, political participation, etc. The patriarchal hierarchy I'm referring to goes beyond these material measurements however. What I'm referring to is how society at large views women, and those cultures where there is still a prevalent religiously inspired patriarchal power structure still struggle with the concept of women becoming equal participants in society irrespective of their gender, that's a very different concept.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

sure, but its not the muslim community that wants to see its women walk around naked. our culture has never promoted it. hindu culture on the other hand does promote it today, and has always promoted it based on their religious and cultural art and artifacts. you were the one that said that sexual promiscuity is wrong. so when islam speaks the same language you do, while indian culture does the opposite, i dont see a good reason for you to object to what i said.

I would say there is high fidelity to Islamic principles among the Islamic populace, while less fidelity to Hindu principles among the HIndu populace........anyways changing gears...is it possible to promote economic development of women without letting sexual promiscuity/immorality to proliferate?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Patriarchy is "innate nature" or "natural disposition" of Mankind! Knocking it down because of religious belief only represents ignorance... people not grounded in or informed about the matter would be swept off their feet by patronizing egomaniacs talking from the sides of their mouths... looking down upon amd grandstanding on projected misfortune of others... problem is those subjected to such, start believing in this drivel, apparently because they're unable to defend their positions or otherwise their contented life and existence... they instead debase themselves on a fleeting existence ever following a mirage someone else is projecting for them...
Ask yourself, is it really your dream? Or,
someone showed you a nonexistent utopia?
One the projecting party itself hasn't experienced!!!
The pain of western women can never be truly heard, it hides behind a mask of pretense and grandstanding! It assumes a greater self appraisal then what actually exists. When "me too" came out, otherwise powerful women exposed themselves and their vulnerabilities... the reason for not speaking out early is always the same, they themselves ARE the role models...
how can they falter?
They're the trailblazers, they cannot admit their own demons and expose themselves as nothing but a game of optics!!!

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

is it possible to promote economic development of women without letting sexual promiscuity/immorality to proliferate?

i think it depends on greed. if you want to be as rich as the West, then you have to be as naked as them. along with suffering the consequences for being so greedy and flying too close to the sun.

read demographers reports on highly westernised societies like the West and Japan, and you can see these societies have long started their countdown to extinction. a society's first focus should be to make sure there is no poverty in the society, instead of focusing on how many rich people can we have or how much higher than the basic living needs we can achieve in the near future when we still have poverty in our neighbourhoods.

 

[Bilal9]

All very good and commendable, but labour participation is only one metric of measurement, and my theory still stands, because if you taking labour participation rate as a measurement of female empowerment, the UAE is at 40%, but still suffers from the patriarchal societal hierarchy I'm referring to. Even the secular democratic states are continuously striving for gender equality. Female empowerment is not only about labour participation, but being allowed to pursue their own path in society at large, without discrimination. And that encompasses everything from empowerment of their own bodies, as well career, political participation, etc. The patriarchal hierarchy I'm referring to goes beyond these material measurements however. What I'm referring to is how society at large views women, and those cultures where there is still a prevalent religiously inspired patriarchal power structure still struggle with the concept of women becoming equal participants in society irrespective of their gender, that's a very different concept.

Well, our PM and leader of the opposition were both women (US still doesn't have that), and seats reserved for both Bangladesh and Pakistan parliaments are way higher than India (1/6th of total). Things are improving, while not at the level in US/UK (34% or so MPs in UK, the picture is not better in the US either).

Women enjoy (at least in Bangladesh) both respect as 'mothers', as 'sisters', as 'daughters' (terms used socially) and have extensive quotas in workplaces where they frequently possess leadership roles. That channel I posted videos for has many stories.

The picture is again, far better than India, where women are primarily seen as targets of exploitation rather than having equal rights. The exploitative attacks on women that go without repercussion are shown vividly in recent Netflix specials/serials which I have seen.

 

[Bilal9]

I agree with you on most points but ... I don’t think women should have to have an income to have a say. They should have a say just for being a citizens / part of society. The people with real world experience, whether in the home or out, can speak from their experiences and an educated public should be able to tell who is a more credible person.

Also the “power over their own wombs” and “patriarchy” seems kind of a vague statement, but I think I understand your sentiment. They need their rights to say what they want respected and heard in the decision making process, especially over something as personal and central as parenthood.

When I said "power over their own wombs" - I meant having the freedom to decide when to become a parent. This is a huge responsibility, and it is forced upon too many women at too inopportune a time.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

When I said "power over their own wombs" - I meant having the freedom to decide when to become a parent. This is a huge responsibility, and it is forced upon too many women at too inopportune a time.

but giving a woman so much power over the reproductive process without also state promotion of religion would mean that such a country would down the path of the dinosaurs.

 

[Mrc]

TikTok

vm.tiktok.com

Listen to biches

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Kuch log abhi b hain inko rokne wale

 

[FuturePAF]

When I said "power over their own wombs" - I meant having the freedom to decide when to become a parent. This is a huge responsibility, and it is forced upon too many women at too inopportune a time.

I totally agree. My wife wanted to make sure she could complete her education and that becoming a mother (which she also wanted to do) would not derail it. Alhamdulillah, we have been blessed in both regards. She became a mother and continued her education until she completed it. As they say, happy wife happy life.

 

[El Sidd]

Thank You Shireen Mizari for encouraging this event.

Government has spent considerable amount in propaganda of this march yet has poor representation of women.

Only a tsunami of women on the streets can help Pakistan now

 

[Bilal9]

but giving a woman so much power over the reproductive process without also state promotion of religion would mean that such a country would down the path of the dinosaurs.

By "power over their own wombs" I don't suggest getting free abortions.

State does not have to proselytize, they can provide living wage jobs (export oriented if possible) so women have better lives, which are a counterpoint to social decay.

But there is a time and place for everything, and a woman's right to an education must not be taken away by being bound to the house in a permanent state of motherhood.

Educated women make for productive diligent citizens instead of being baby factories.

If women were indeed educated - you would see lower middle class women decry and reject what upper class women are doing on the streets in Pakistan.

And working women don't have time to provide useless circus on the street for everyone's enjoyment. They are too busy working. Which also benefits the state.

I have to admit - that societies in Bangladesh (although in many respects similar to Pakistani society) have differences in social approaches and values. This is probably more true in lower middle class and the lower class populace. But there as well, values are rapidly changing.

 

[Bilal9]

I totally agree. My wife wanted to make sure she could complete her education and that becoming a mother (which she also wanted to do) would not derail it. Alhamdulillah, we have been blessed in both regards. She became a mother and continued her education until she completed it. As they say, happy wife happy life.

Good to hear brother. May Allah bless your family.

 

[darksider]

Listen their slogans.they are reaching new level of low every year.