Army officer who tied youth to jeep in Kashmir gets clean chit; praised by court

[Logicaldude]

Very interesting question.

Yes, they do. I wouldn't say that's in keeping with the spirit of modern law and respect for property but it is the law of the land. The dynamics of the tribal society demand it. The tribes that support the PA had the same treatment meted out to them and so when they get the upper hand they want to repay in the same coin. However, it is pertinent to mention that it isn't a straight away affair that you enter and area and start knocking down structures, there's a codified procedure governing this entire practice.
Firstly, when an enemy territory is felled, their elder call for "naanawaati". They bring a lamb as a peace offering and secure a jirga.
Next, the jirga gives the elders the following options:

1. Join us, hand over the enemy hiding in your homes and you will not be disturbed.
2. Declare that you have no "waas (control)" over the enemy you sheltered and you will be given safe passage, houses will be felled.
3. Continue the fight.

The tribes that hand over militants hiding in their area do not see their houses and markets felled.

So its not entirely colonial as much as it is in accordance with local tribal code.

Thank you for that post. But some are purely reprisals. The recent bomb attack in Lahore, one of the facilitators caught in Lahore had his tribal areas house demolished.

That I find truly amazing for today's times. Security forces engaging in revenge on remote family even after catching the perp? This jeep (one time, not SOP, hence inquiry) act by comparison looks merciful, considering it may have saved lives (as opposed to army going in with guns blazing).

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/tribune.com.pk/story/1333703/house-lahore-blast-facilitator-demolished/?amp=1

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...vilian-to-jeep-given-clean-chit/1/953946.html
Major who tied Kashmiri civilian to jeep given clean chit, Army brass believes he saved lives

This is a fake new... Army has officially denied any such action....
http://www.outlookindia.com/newswir...-that-major-responsible-got-clean-chit/969347

 

[Icarus]

Thank you for that post. But some are purely reprisals. The recent bomb attack in Lahore, one of the facilitators caught in Lahore had his tribal areas house demolished.

That I find truly amazing for today's times. Security forces engaging in revenge on family even after catching the perp?

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/tribune.com.pk/story/1333703/house-lahore-blast-facilitator-demolished/?amp=1

At the moment, there is intensive work going on towards mainstreaming FATA and in doing so, hopefully these archaic laws can be done away with. As it stands, the Tribal Areas are largely self-governed outside of the roads and FC/Civil Administration Forts (yes they live in forts). There is no police force, the Levies only work on the roads and the Khassadars work inside the local villages and towns, the latter are paid by the Mashar (Elder/Leader) of the area and are thus more of his private force than that of the state which is why these laws have been able to survive up till now.

 

[Logicaldude]

At the moment, there is intensive work going on towards mainstreaming FATA and in doing so, hopefully these archaic laws can be done away with. As it stands, the Tribal Areas are largely self-governed outside of the roads and FC/Civil Administration Forts (yes they live in forts). There is no police force, the Levies only work on the roads and the Khassadars work inside the local villages and towns, the latter are paid by the Mashar (Elder/Leader) of the area and are thus more of his private force than that of the state which is why these laws have been able to survive up till now.

True. I know it cuts both ways and both ways it is weird to me. For example an army officer was given death punishment by a jirga in parachinar for getting involved with a girl and the Army was ok with it.

Breaking these rules will go a long way into establishing true writ of GOP I think. But I have not been there (just discussed this with some Turi friends) and you have been.

 

[Icarus]

True. I know it cuts both ways and both ways it is weird to me. For example an army officer was given death punishment by a jirga in parachinar for getting involved with a girl and the Army was ok with it.

Breaking these rules will go a long way into establishing true writ of GOP I think. But I have not been there (just discussed this with some Turi friends) and you have been.

At the time of partition, the Tribals were promised that they would be allowed to maintain their autonomy and way of life. At that time, I don't think anyone could have anticipated that we would be in such a pickle. Accordingly, FATA was exempt from much of the laws that governed the country, I'll list some of the exceptions.

1. Exempt from paying tax.
2. Exempt from paying utilities.
3. Allowed to use non-custom paid vehicles.
4. Legal recognition of jirgas.
5. State patronage of the Maliks.
6. Beyond legal reach of all courts except federal high/supreme court.
7. Self-Policing
8. Right to bear arms sans license.

I have no idea how they didn't see how terribly we could mess up but at the time, the leadership were thinking along the lines of "Muslims don't fight each other" and thus I guess they never anticipated this happening.

 

[Logicaldude]

At the time of partition, the Tribals were promised that they would be allowed to maintain their autonomy and way of life. At that time, I don't think anyone could have anticipated that we would be in such a pickle. Accordingly, FATA was exempt from much of the laws that governed the country, I'll list some of the exceptions.

1. Exempt from paying tax.
2. Exempt from paying utilities.
3. Allowed to use non-custom paid vehicles.
4. Legal recognition of jirgas.
5. State patronage of the Maliks.
6. Beyond legal reach of all courts except federal high/supreme court.
7. Self-Policing
8. Right to bear arms sans license.

I have no idea how they didn't see how terribly we could mess up but at the time, the leadership were thinking along the lines of "Muslims don't fight each other" and thus I guess they never anticipated this happening.

No 3 should be included in basic human rights

I think that was a big mistake. That and not going for land reforms. Thankfully we don't trust any Indians and guns etc are not easy to procure. Also most states implemented land reforms with varying degree of success.

I think Pakistan would have been far different had they done the same. Not saying they should have, it's just that these simple looking decisions had far reaching implications.

 

[Icarus]

No 3 should be included in basic human rights

I think that was a big mistake. That and not going for land reforms. Thankfully we don't trust any Indians and guns etc are not easy to procure. Also most states implemented land reforms with varying degree of success.

I think Pakistan would have been far different had they done the same. Not saying they should have, it's just that these simple looking decisions had far reaching implications.

I agree land reforms and gun control were both tried later on but it was too little too late. It is absolutely essential to strip the citizenry of weapons if there is to be any semblance of peace in the country however voluntary surrender of arms, even with a cash incentive has proven to be ineffective. Everyone and their grandmother has their own private armoury, it really is a problem.

 

[Logicaldude]

I agree land reforms and gun control were both tried later on but it was too little too late. It is absolutely essential to strip the citizenry of weapons if there is to be any semblance of peace in the country however voluntary surrender of arms, even with a cash incentive has proven to be ineffective. Everyone and their grandmother has their own private armoury, it really is a problem.

Thank you Sir. Thanks to you I got to learn new things today on PDF. Rare. I declare Eid and now must proceed to have a party tonight. Have a good day.

 

[Icarus]

Thank you Sir. Thanks to you I got to learn new things today on PDF. Rare. I declare Eid and now must proceed to have a party tonight. Have a good day.

Thorough pleasure having this discussion with you!

 

[third eye]

I see the point you are trying to make.

CI Ops are not ops any army carries out basic training for, tactics evolve based on experience, intel, weapons systems & equipment available. Add changing Political climate of the nation too.

The Junior leader is expected to take decisions on the spot which in this case the officer did.

From a major's perspective, it obviously made sense. He is responsible for the security of his party and he ensured that but the greater ramifications of his actions serve to undermine India's narrative on Kashmir.

I dont see much ramifications on what happened . If anything, it sent a signal that the armed forces will not hesitate to leave the straight & narrow should the need arise.

The Officers first responsibility was to ensure the safety of his command with preferably NIL casualties to the locals too. This was achieved.

We go back to the "Mad Colonel Hypothesis against tactical nuclear weapons", a battlefield commander may employ the most devastating weapon at his disposal to secure his AOR but in securing his AOR, he endangers the greater campaign and even the state by his actions.

A battlefield situation may not be the best to measure this by for had this been one, no pelter would be visible.

However, the example is relevant & which is the reason why multiple layers exist for release of diff types of weapon systems.

The vehicles seem to be APCs and even the jeep has wire-mesh windows, even if faced with stone pelters, the convoy would have remained unscathed.

Possibly, but the officer did well by doing what he did.

 

[Icarus]

I see the point you are trying to make.

CI Ops are not ops any army carries out basic training for, tactics evolve based on experience, intel, weapons systems & equipment available. Add changing Political climate of the nation too.

The Junior leader is expected to take decisions on the spot which in this case the officer did.

Absolutely spot on. COIN is a complex field to navigate. The enemy is not monolithic, he is very unpredictable and will resort to means that a conventional military won't. A conventional military fights with tactical and strategic objectives in mind, an insurgent fights to incur as much casualty as possible and then live to fight another day.

I dont see much ramifications on what happened . If anything, it sent a signal that the armed forces will not hesitate to leave the straight & narrow should the need arise.

The Officers first responsibility was to ensure the safety of his command with preferably NIL casualties to the locals too. This was achieved.

The image in question however has become and will continue to be a major propaganda tool that will be used to reinforce the idea that Kashmiris are second-grade citizens. The question will be raised, would similar images have come out of elsewhere? The Jatts engaged in violence with the security forces last year in Harriyana, why were there no human shields employed then?

I am being as dispassionate and neutral as possible. I hope you will see my comments as not those of a Pakistani but as someone who has devoted his life to security.

A battlefield situation may not be the best to measure this by for had this been one, no pelter would be visible.

However, the example is relevant & which is the reason why multiple layers exist for release of diff types of weapon systems.

I agree that it is perhaps not astute to quote the example of the battlefield in this regard but it was my intention to merely make an inference to how tactical decisions can undermine strategic objectives.

Possibly, but the officer did well by doing what he did.

I would contest that the officer could have done better. But I would chalk that difference in opinion up to the respective attitudes of our militaries towards two very different conflicts.

 

[Vapnope]

Dawn.comUpdated 40 minutes ago



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India's Army Court of Inquiry (COI) on Monday acquitted an army officer accused of tying a man to his jeep, using him as a human-shield while patrolling in India-held Kashmir on April 9, Indian media reported.

Earlier in April, a video had circulated on social media showing a young man, later discovered to be 26-year-old shawl maker Farooq Ahmad Dar, strapped to the front of an olive-green vehicle with a sign pinned to his chest declaring him to be a stone-pelter. The incident had once again raised concerns over the violation of human rights by Indian armed forces in held Kashmir, prodding the Indian army to investigate the incident, which reportedly occurred in Budgam district.

However, on Monday, an Indian army court acquitted Major Nitin Gogol, praising him for having the "presence of mind to avoid casualties or injuries" and "avoid" stone pelting on forces.

Gogol is serving in held-Kashmir with the Rashtriya Rifles branch of the Indian military.

'Am I a toy or a human being?'
Dar, who was tied to the jeep by men in Gogol's battalion, conservatively estimated he was paraded for at least 20-25 kilometres.

After they were done patrolling, Dar says he was taken to a Central Reserve Paramilitary Force camp in Hardapanzoo where he said he was "still tied up and not offered water".

Later, Dar said he was taken on another ride, this time inside a jeep.

He recounted his story several times to journalists who had sought him out after the video was leaked on social media.

"Am I a toy or a human being?" he said, "The government should take action against" the army personnel.

Describing the effects of the beating, he said, "There are no bruises over the surface but I am hurt on the inside."

Former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah had tweeted the video when it first emerged, exclaiming how a lack of action about the Kashmiri youth's handling frustrated him.

Referring to a separate video showing an Indian security official being beaten up by by a group of enraged Kashmiris, "I understand the outrage the Central Reserve Police Force video generated. I'm also outraged that the video of the youth on the jeep won't generate the same anger," he said.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333301/i...o-used-kashmiri-as-human-shield-media-reports

 

[Divergent]

Terrorist army

 

[Vapnope]

@BHarwana @Zibago @Pakistani Exile @pak-marine @Hell hound @Sinnerman108

In one breath some Indian posters boast how Kashmiri youth is defying "Terrorists" by applying to Indian jobs in another they appreciate such treatments to mere stone-pelters.
The Media blackouts, the reoccurring raids and curfews tell and different story however.

 

[third eye]

The image in question however has become and will continue to be a major propaganda tool that will be used to reinforce the idea that Kashmiris are second-grade citizens. The question will be raised, would similar images have come out of elsewhere? The Jatts engaged in violence with the security forces last year in Harriyana, why were there no human shields employed then?

Since you have worn Khaki, put yourself in the position of the young officer. Would you have thought it through that what you consider may become a propaganda tool or anything ? The chances are No.

The way the system functions is that at all levels commanders are sanguine that those above him will ' hold his hand' should the stuff hit the fan. That young man wouldn't have thought beyond two things - Get his command back safely & no damage to locals.

Now, if a pelter is made to sit on a tyre so be it. The pelter would be happy he didnt lose his life or limb.

As regards Haryana, the Local Police is capable of rubbing it in like Police in our part of the world does when it choses to & it possibly did. The two situations have little in common.

Kashmiris are not second grade citizens. However, anyone who chooses to challenge the writ of the state at the instigation of their masters must do at his own peril & consequently feel the heat.

I am being as dispassionate and neutral as possible. I hope you will see my comments as not those of a Pakistani but as someone who has devoted his life to security.

No, your concerns are fair .

I would contest that the officer could have done better. But I would chalk that difference in opinion up to the respective attitudes of our militaries towards two very different conflicts.

Sure, with hindsight everything we do may have been done better. I am sure the reaction time the Officer had must have been little.

Our Military does not have the luxury of control that PA does . Neither does it have a Govt that actively discourages criticism of the Military on social media & other forum. It has therefore to work within the confines it has.