Argentina chooses second hand Kfir over JF-17, Gripen.

[Beast]

Even 50 year old Kfir is better than JF-17.

All FCR's use the pulse-doppler effect. The word you are looking for is Mechanically Scanned. EL/M 2032 is not an ESA and neither is Argentina getting that. EL/M 2052 is an AESA and installed on Blk 60's.

Simply adding a super radar doesn't suddenly make you a better plane. I doubt this old airframe can even pull 6G w/o breaking apart and not to mention evade missile. The thirsty turbojet makes this plane frequently require aerial refuel.

If just adding a radar can makes a better plane. Putting a new radar can make a C-130 a better fighter plane.

 

[Beast]

Oh you doubt........that must be single most greatest argument in the history of online debates. And how many G's can JF-17 pull. How useful is that against 40G missiles?

Still has same range as JF-17.

Kfir is Mirage III++++ aircraft just as JF-17 is Mig-21++++ or if you'd like F7++++. It outperforms JF-17 in all performance parameters. AESA radar from one of the leading countries in Electronics and EW systems is just a bonus.

JF-17 can pull 8.5G and this old rusty kfir I bet cannot go beyond 7G w/o breaking apart. Kfir are slight modify of mirage III which is not well known for agility.
A missile 40G does not mean airplane are going to outrun 40G. You have to take consideration the chase range and the fact aircraft start pulling away and bleeding the missile speed. A high agile plane has a higher chance of survival against missile attack than an inferior if both sensor is the same. This is a fact that cannot deny.

 

[raazh]

Argentina was in advanced stages of selecting Kfir but yesterday they have postponed the decision till the elections. So probably the new Govt. is going to re-evaluate the options again ..

 

[The Eagle]

MercoPress - South Atlantic News AgencyMercoPress. en Español Montevideo, November 17th 2015 - 08:49 UTC


Buscar
Monday, November 16th 2015 - 06:36 UTC
Argentina's Kfir contract questioned by Air Force: they lacked “a weapons' system” and radar
The number three man in the Argentine Air Force refused to sign the purchase of 14 Israeli refurbished Kfir fighter jets, an operation involving 360 million dollars, and which supposedly would have given the depleted service a breath of fresh air.
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Brigadier Mario Roca argued that the fighters to be supplied by Israel did not have the weapons system and only six of them would be equipped with radars
Brigadier Mario Roca argued that the fighters to be supplied by Israel did not have the weapons system and only six of them would be equipped with radars
Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi gave another version of events particularly regarding the freezing of the purchase operation from IAI
Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi gave another version of events particularly regarding the freezing of the purchase operation from IAI
Apparently the first Pampa III jet trainer from the Cordoba factory still has to be delivered to the Argentine Air Force. It was promised for last March
Apparently the first Pampa III jet trainer from the Cordoba factory still has to be delivered to the Argentine Air Force. It was promised for last March

According to a reconstruction by Clarin of the situation, which allegedly happened over a month ago, Brigadier Mario Roca argued that the fighters to be supplied by Israel did not have the weapons system and only six of them would be equipped with radars, so he refused to support the deal, which he explained to his commanding officer, Brigadier General Mario Callejo, and went home.
Allegedly Brigadier Roca was not dismissed or retired, as expected, but remained on call.
Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi gave another version of events particularly regarding the freezing of the purchase operation from the state run Israel Aerospace Industries, IAI, which also included the promotion and sale by IAI of Argentine manufactured jet trainers.
“We have been working on the replacement of the decommissioned Mirages fighter jets since I took office. We have considered different offers: the US F16, Chinese fighters, Spanish F1 and the Israel proposal which was considered the most viable for technical and economic reasons. The 360m operation is for 14 aircraft and five-year maintenance, plus the commitment by IAI to promote the sale of our Pampa jets in different world markets. However we are not going to sign the contract, everything is ready for the next president to make the decision”, explained Rossi.
Ambito Financiero, which is now the property of a close friend of the Kirchner family, added further spice to the operation. Apparently the contract included 30 Pampa III Argentine manufactured trainer jets, but according to opposition members in Congress, the Cordoba factory has yet to deliver its first Pampa to the Argentine Air Force which was scheduled to take place last March.
“The Pampa III is a technological lie from president Cristina. She put the boys of La Campora in the factory and we know their incompetence, and this helps to understand Israel's resistance to the deal”, said lawmaker Julio Martinez deputy chief of the Defense Committee in Congress.
Ambito Financiero had reported that the IAI contract would be signed before the presidential runoff on 22 November since an Israel delegation had arrived in Buenos Aires. Contracts were ready since September when president Cristina Fernandez signed decree 1775 with the needed funds for a first down payment of 60m dollars on signing the contract. The rest would be spread in several years and several annual budgets.
However last week the Kfir deal was frozen. Apparently the Argentine Air Force questioned several issues, for example the refurbished fighter's engine is a General Electric J79 and thus US approval is needed for the sale; besides the 800/1600 hours overhaul can only be done in Israel, “so what about the technology transfer”.
The whole deal, according to a 'non paper' involves 78 months but the first six fighters would be delivered at the end of the first 18 months, but with no weapons' system. Of the 14, two are two-seat trainers.
“A strategic decision of this level must be decided by the incoming government”, insists the 'non paper' which also recalls that the Kirchners step down from government leaving Argentina with no supersonic fighters and with an only Hercules C130 transport aircraft in flying conditions.

 

[DrWatson775]

MercoPress - South Atlantic News AgencyMercoPress. en Español Montevideo, November 17th 2015 - 08:49 UTC


Buscar
Monday, November 16th 2015 - 06:36 UTC
Argentina's Kfir contract questioned by Air Force: they lacked “a weapons' system” and radar
The number three man in the Argentine Air Force refused to sign the purchase of 14 Israeli refurbished Kfir fighter jets, an operation involving 360 million dollars, and which supposedly would have given the depleted service a breath of fresh air.
PrintShare
0
inShare
Brigadier Mario Roca argued that the fighters to be supplied by Israel did not have the weapons system and only six of them would be equipped with radars
Brigadier Mario Roca argued that the fighters to be supplied by Israel did not have the weapons system and only six of them would be equipped with radars
Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi gave another version of events particularly regarding the freezing of the purchase operation from IAI
Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi gave another version of events particularly regarding the freezing of the purchase operation from IAI
Apparently the first Pampa III jet trainer from the Cordoba factory still has to be delivered to the Argentine Air Force. It was promised for last March
Apparently the first Pampa III jet trainer from the Cordoba factory still has to be delivered to the Argentine Air Force. It was promised for last March

According to a reconstruction by Clarin of the situation, which allegedly happened over a month ago, Brigadier Mario Roca argued that the fighters to be supplied by Israel did not have the weapons system and only six of them would be equipped with radars, so he refused to support the deal, which he explained to his commanding officer, Brigadier General Mario Callejo, and went home.
Allegedly Brigadier Roca was not dismissed or retired, as expected, but remained on call.
Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi gave another version of events particularly regarding the freezing of the purchase operation from the state run Israel Aerospace Industries, IAI, which also included the promotion and sale by IAI of Argentine manufactured jet trainers.
“We have been working on the replacement of the decommissioned Mirages fighter jets since I took office. We have considered different offers: the US F16, Chinese fighters, Spanish F1 and the Israel proposal which was considered the most viable for technical and economic reasons. The 360m operation is for 14 aircraft and five-year maintenance, plus the commitment by IAI to promote the sale of our Pampa jets in different world markets. However we are not going to sign the contract, everything is ready for the next president to make the decision”, explained Rossi.
Ambito Financiero, which is now the property of a close friend of the Kirchner family, added further spice to the operation. Apparently the contract included 30 Pampa III Argentine manufactured trainer jets, but according to opposition members in Congress, the Cordoba factory has yet to deliver its first Pampa to the Argentine Air Force which was scheduled to take place last March.
“The Pampa III is a technological lie from president Cristina. She put the boys of La Campora in the factory and we know their incompetence, and this helps to understand Israel's resistance to the deal”, said lawmaker Julio Martinez deputy chief of the Defense Committee in Congress.
Ambito Financiero had reported that the IAI contract would be signed before the presidential runoff on 22 November since an Israel delegation had arrived in Buenos Aires. Contracts were ready since September when president Cristina Fernandez signed decree 1775 with the needed funds for a first down payment of 60m dollars on signing the contract. The rest would be spread in several years and several annual budgets.
However last week the Kfir deal was frozen. Apparently the Argentine Air Force questioned several issues, for example the refurbished fighter's engine is a General Electric J79 and thus US approval is needed for the sale; besides the 800/1600 hours overhaul can only be done in Israel, “so what about the technology transfer”.
The whole deal, according to a 'non paper' involves 78 months but the first six fighters would be delivered at the end of the first 18 months, but with no weapons' system. Of the 14, two are two-seat trainers.
“A strategic decision of this level must be decided by the incoming government”, insists the 'non paper' which also recalls that the Kirchners step down from government leaving Argentina with no supersonic fighters and with an only Hercules C130 transport aircraft in flying conditions.

President elect Macri of Argentina will have a difficult job deciding which aircraft to go for. Remember the deal is not done yet as this new govt has to give the final go ahead.

His main agenda is getting the economy back on track after four years of almost no growth. At the same time the air force would want replacement for their ageing fighters.

I think with macri elected this Israeli deal is almost dead as Macri wouldn't want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on second hand fighters only 6 of which have radars.

Maybe he will put fighter acquisition on the back burner; or he may take the bold step of going for a Chinese solution in a broader deal to bring Chinese investment and kick start the economy, pleasing his military at the same time.

Time will tell. Too many factors involved.

 

[Beast]

President elect Macri of Argentina will have a difficult job deciding which aircraft to go for. Remember the deal is not done yet as this new govt has to give the final go ahead.

His main agenda is getting the economy back on track after four years of almost no growth. At the same time the air force would want replacement for their ageing fighters.

I think with macri elected this Israeli deal is almost dead as Macri wouldn't want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on second hand fighters only 6 of which have radars.

Maybe he will put fighter acquisition on the back burner; or he may take the bold step of going for a Chinese solution in a broader deal to bring Chinese investment and kick start the economy, pleasing his military at the same time.

Time will tell. Too many factors involved.

China will not sell decent weapon to Argentina. China is more happy to build a better and healthy r/s with UK.

 

[SQ8]

Its a decision that is economically sensible as the Argentinians have a long history of operating the IAI mirage variants such as the Finger and Dagger. The Kfir makes straightforward sense to them.

 

[The Eagle]

President elect Macri of Argentina will have a difficult job deciding which aircraft to go for. Remember the deal is not done yet as this new govt has to give the final go ahead.

His main agenda is getting the economy back on track after four years of almost no growth. At the same time the air force would want replacement for their ageing fighters.

I think with macri elected this Israeli deal is almost dead as Macri wouldn't want to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on second hand fighters only 6 of which have radars.

Maybe he will put fighter acquisition on the back burner; or he may take the bold step of going for a Chinese solution in a broader deal to bring Chinese investment and kick start the economy, pleasing his military at the same time.

Time will tell. Too many factors involved.

Yes indeed there r many factors involved so also new Govt should focus more on economic issues and need to work in that area. China could b helpful in terms of economic help. Smart choice could b something else I mean other than Kfir.

China will not sell decent weapon to Argentina. China is more happy to build a better and healthy r/s with UK.

This is not about decent weapons I think as Argentine knows what she can afford and maintain but first of all there should b a strong economy.

 

[BoQ77]

Argentina and Israel resume Kfir sale talks

• 
  

• 10 MARCH, 2016
  
• BY: ARIE EGOZI
  
• TEL AVIV

Argentina and Israel have resumed negotiations covering the potential sale of 14 Israel Aerospace Industries Kfir Block 60 fighter aircraft, after the parties broke off talks following elections in the South American country in October 2015.

 

[Zain Malik]

Well don't need their money or order go and purchase other Bulshit aircraft from Israelians Argentina......you will have loss..........As the Srilankans are now suffering after cancelling the deal of Thunders......!!!!!