What's new

Are Muslims Better Off in Quaid-e-Azam M.A. Jinnah's Pakistan Today?

RiazHaq

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
6,611
Reaction score
70
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
As Pakistanis celebrate Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's birthday today on Christmas Day, there are some who are questioning the founder's wisdom in seeking partition of India to carve out Pakistan as an independent nation. The doubters justifiably point to the rising tide of intolerance and increasing violence and a whole range of problems and crises Pakistan is facing. They wonder aloud if it was a mistake to demand a separate country for Muslims of undivided India.

Jinnah-Gandhi+in+Islamabad++Wax+Museum.jpg

Wax Statues of Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah and Mahatma Gandhi in Islamabad


Are the critics correct in their assessment when they suggest that Muslims in Pakistan would have been better off without partition? To answer this question, let us look at the following facts and data:

1. Muslims, the New Untouchables in India:

While India maintains its facade of religious tolerance, democracy and secularism through a few high-profile Muslim tokens among its high officials and celebrities, the ground reality for the vast majority of ordinary Muslims is much harsher.

An Indian government commission headed by former India Chief Justice Rajendar Sachar confirms that Muslims are the new untouchables in caste-ridden and communal India. Indian Muslims suffer heavy discrimination in almost every field from education and housing to jobs. Their incarceration rates are also much higher than their Hindu counterparts.

According to Sachar Commission report, Muslims are now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men are unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% are unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 ca not read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims account for 40% of India’s prison population. Meanwhile, they hold less than 5% of government jobs.

2. Upward Economic Mobility in Pakistan:

In spite of all of its problems, Pakistan has continued to offer higher upward economic and social mobility to its citizens over the last two decades than India. Since 1990, Pakistan's middle class had expanded by 36.5% and India's by only 12.8%, according to an ADB report titled "Asia's Emerging Middle Class: Past, Present And Future".

Economic+Mobility+Pakistan.jpg


Miles Corak of University of Ottawa calculates that the intergenerational earnings elasticity in Pakistan is 0.46, the same as in Switzerland. It means that a difference of 100% between the incomes of a rich father and a poor father is reduced to 46% difference between their sons' incomes. Among the 22 countries studied, Peru, China and Brazil have the lowest economic mobility with inter-generational elasticity of 0.67, 0.60 and 0.58 respectively. The highest economic mobility is offered by Denmark (0.15), Norway (0.17) and Finland (0.18).


The author also looked at Gini coefficient of each country and found reasonably good correlation between Gini and intergenerational income elasticity.

More evidence of upward mobility is offered by recent Euromonitor market research indicating that Pakistanis are seeing rising disposable incomes. It says that there were 1.8 million Pakistani households (7.55% of all households) and 7.9 million Indian households (3.61% of all households) in 2009 with disposable incomes of $10,001 or more. This translates into 282% increase (vs 232% in India) from 1995-2009 in households with disposable incomes of $10,001 or more. Consumer spending in Pakistan has increased at a 26 percent average pace the past three years, compared with 7.7 percent for Asia, according to Bloomberg.

3. East Pakistan Debacle:

Critics love to point out Pakistan's break-up in 1971 as evidence of failure of Jinnah's Pakistan.
They lavish praise on Bangladesh and scold Pakistan as part of the annual ritual a few days before Quaid-e-Azam's birthday every year.

Economic gap between East and West Pakistan in 1960s is often cited as a key reason for the secessionist movement led by Shaikh Mujib's Awami League and the creation of Bangladesh in 1971. This disparity has grown over the last 40 years, and the per capita income in Pakistan now stands at more than twice Bangladesh's in 2012 in nominal dollar terms, higher than 1.6 in 1971.

Here are some figures from Economist magazine's EIU 2013:

Bangladesh GDP per head: $695 (PPP: $1,830)

Pakistan GDP per head: $1,410 (PPP: $2,960)

Pakistan-Bangladesh GDP per head Ratio: 2.03 ( PPP: 1.62)

4. Poverty, Hunger, Other Socioeconomic Indicators:

Pakistan's employment growth has been the highest in South Asia region since 2000, followed by Nepal, Bangladesh, India, and Sri Lanka in that order, according to a recent World Bank report titled "More and Better Jobs in South Asia".


Total employment in South Asia (excluding Afghanistan and Bhutan) rose from 473 million in 2000 to 568 million in 2010, creating an average of just under 800,000 new jobs a month. In all countries except Maldives and Sri Lanka, the largest share of the employed are the low‐end self-employed.


Pakistanis have higher graduation rates in education and suffer lower levels of hunger and poverty than Indians and Bangladeshis.

Pakistanis spend more time in schools and colleges and graduate at a higher rate than their Indian counterparts in 15+ age group, according to a report on educational achievement by Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

Barro-Lee-Ind-Pak.jpg



Here is a summary of Barro-Lee's 2010 data in percentage of 15+ age group students who have enrolled in and-or completed primary, secondary and tertiary education:

Education Level.......India........Pakistan

Primary (Total)........20.9..........21.8

Primary (Completed)....18.9..........19.3

Secondary(Total).......40.7..........34.6

Secondary(Completed)...0.9...........22.5

College(Total).........5.8...........5.5

College(Completed).....3.1...........3.9



According to the latest world hunger index rankings, Pakistan ranks 57 while India and Bangladesh are worse at 65 and 68 among 79 countries ranked by International Food Policy Research Institute in 2012.

Bangladesh-Hunger+Index.jpg

World Hunger Index 2012

The latest World Bank data shows that India's poverty rate of 27.5%, based on India's current poverty line of $1.03 per person per day, is more than 10 percentage points higher than Pakistan's 17.2%. Assam (urban), Punjab and Himachal Pradesh are the only three Indian states with similar or lower poverty rates than Pakistan's.

Poverty+Across+India.jpg


Clearly, Pakistanis have not lived up to Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's vision of a tolerant and democratic Pakistan where the basic rights of all of its citizens, including religious and ethnic minorities, are fully respected. Popular Pakistani columnist Ardeshir Cowasjee put it well when he wrote: "Fortunately for him, Jinnah did not live long enough to see his dream betrayed by men unworthy even to utter his name. He died before total disillusionment could set in (though he had his suspicions that it was on its way) and broke his heart. From what we know of him, he was that rare being, an incorruptible man in all the many varied meanings of the word corruption, purchasable by no other, swayed by no other, perverted by no other; a man of honor, integrity and high ideals. That the majority of his countrymen have been found wanting in these qualities is this country's tragedy."

I do think, however, that all of the available and credible data and indicators confirm the fact that Muslims in Pakistan are not only much better off than they are elsewhere in South Asia, they also enjoy higher economic and social mobility than their counterparts in India and Bangladesh.

Haq's Musings: Are Muslims Worse Off in Jinnah's Pakistan?
 
The answer is yes and no. Quaid's struggle was not utopian, it was progressive, and the state of affairs he aimed to achieve for a stable base are still not within reach, alas, the movement has been slowed due to its figurehead having been removed from it. Nothing is a bed of roses, but with that thought in mind, Pakistan has made leaps and bounds in the Muslim sphere - scientific achievements (albeit it is more in the military mechanism of things), gradually improving education and one that is still a struggle being fought today - being a light in the muslim world without being bigoted, but with piety, humanity and the strife for equal prosperity for all.
 
Offcourse, creation of Pakistan was blessing for Muslims in the region and (yet another) significant gain for Islam on global stage.

I said this before and let me say this again : I'm from Punjabi background. Let me tell you the facts. In 'United India', Hindus used to dominate Urban cities, trade, markets, industry etc in Punjab. Sikhs used to control all the agricultural lands of Punjab. Muslims were generally "peasants" and less educated and were far behind the Sikhs (lets not even discuss Hindus here).

Today, Muslims control the most fertile lands of Punjab. Muslims control the industry, trade, Urban centers, markets, productivity, profits, infrastructure etc of majority of Punjab. Muslims control the water resources of Punjab, Sindh etc. Also, today Muslims of North-Western India have their own military to protect them against any aggression. Division of India freed Muslims of North-Western India from Hindu domination once for an all.

Pakistan also played critical role in some critical matters. If Pakistan wasn't there, history would've been completely different. 'United India' would have "welcome" Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. Millions of Muslims would have suffered under soviet occupation of Central Asia, Afghanistan etc. Pakistan proved critical for global Islam and our "Muslim brothers". We fought the USSR , brought Jihadis from all over the world , trained them (along with CIA) , sent our officers to fight Soviets , faced Spetsnaz by sending our SSGs etc etc. This resulted in fall of anti-Islam ideology Communism and "Muslims" got 4,000,000+ sq km land area and now 60+ million people live in that area and Islam forms the majority-religion of this region. Now Islam is literally in EVERY country of the world and its expanding and there is no ideology/state is actually blocking/oppressing it systematically. So this part is good and a big Mashallah to all this.

Offcourse, we made alot of mistakes. We are in no perfect state. But creation of Pakistan atleast 'gives' us a chance...an opportunity to improve our lives. What india under hindu domination would've given us? Same thing they gave to Sikhs in 1984? Same thing millions of poor Muslims are facing today in India? and indians make fun of their OWN Muslims in many internet forums, websites etc.

Thank God Pakistan was created. People despise it because they know how badly it hurts their (anti-Muslim) interests. :cheers:
 
Please, read first [you haven't] & don't derail.

I have read it mate. And my response is simply that if there are enough doubters of that decision, taken 70 years back to merit a half baked analysis to justify it, then it speaks a lot about the state of affairs Riaz is cherry picking around (and posting dated data that has been debunked multiple times in this forum itself..

But anyway.. Shutting up now..
 
it was a blessing for punjabi muslims, no body else really

Well, KPK would've gone with Afghanistan if there was no Pak...tab theek rehta? Muslim Pashtuns are 1000X times better off in Pakistan as compared to Afghanistan. So Pakistan was blessing for Punjabi Muslims AND Pashtuns in North-West. So this alone justifies the creation of Pakistan since *majority* of Muslims in the region are better off due to this state.

Now, leave Balochistan. I can't comment on that. The *only* question mark is Sindh. Sindhis are very intelligent and great people but I think that they have been mistreated. But even here, Muslim businessmen, traders, bankers, industrialists,educators etc benefited alot. Karachi is a financial hub. In United India, Hindus would've completely dominated Karachi and other such cities.

Now, atleast Muslim Sindhis get some share, if not all.

Political change, under PTI, will make Pakistan a even better place Inshallah.
 
Offcourse, creation of Pakistan was blessing for Muslims in the region and (yet another) significant gain for Islam on global stage.

I said this before and let me say this again : I'm from Punjabi background. Let me tell you the facts. In 'United India', Hindus used to dominate Urban cities, trade, markets, industry etc in Punjab. Sikhs used to control all the agricultural lands of Punjab. Muslims were generally "peasants" and less educated and were far behind the Sikhs (lets not even discuss Hindus here).

Today, Muslims control the most fertile lands of Punjab. Muslims control the industry, trade, Urban centers, markets, productivity, profits, infrastructure etc of majority of Punjab. Muslims control the water resources of Punjab, Sindh etc. Also, today Muslims of North-Western India have their own military to protect them against any aggression. Division of India freed Muslims of North-Western India from Hindu domination once for an all.

Pakistan also played critical role in some critical matters. If Pakistan wasn't there, history would've been completely different. 'United India' would have "welcome" Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. Millions of Muslims would have suffered under soviet occupation of Central Asia, Afghanistan etc. Pakistan proved critical for global Islam and our "Muslim brothers". We fought the USSR , brought Jihadis from all over the world , trained them (along with CIA) , sent our officers to fight Soviets , faced Spetsnaz by sending our SSGs etc etc. This resulted in fall of anti-Islam ideology Communism and "Muslims" got 4,000,000+ sq km land area and now 60+ million people live in that area and Islam forms the majority-religion of this region. Now Islam is literally in EVERY country of the world and its expanding and there is no ideology/state is actually blocking/oppressing it systematically. So this part is good and a big Mashallah to all this.

Offcourse, we made alot of mistakes. We are in no perfect state. But creation of Pakistan atleast 'gives' us a chance...an opportunity to improve our lives. What india under hindu domination would've given us? Same thing they gave to Sikhs in 1984? Same thing millions of poor Muslims are facing today in India? and indians make fun of their OWN Muslims in many internet forums, websites etc.

Thank God Pakistan was created. People despise it because they know how badly it hurts their (anti-Muslim) interests. :cheers:


While I agree with overall jist of your post.

But there is a HUGE fallacy (red font).

Hindus and Sikhs were dominating business and banking. But they were not controlling ALL the fertile lands of Punjab.

Muslims were the ones who dominated farming (with few spots for Sikh villages).


Partition impacted mostly one state in the whole of British India. And that state was Punjab.

Before partition
-- East Punjab (Indian side) had 55-65% Muslim Punjabis. (depending on city/village)
-- West Punjab (Pak side) had 35-45% non-Muslim Punjabis (depending on city/village)

After partition
--- Indian Punjab had 0% Muslim punjabis (totally annihilated by Indian mobs)
-- Pak Punjab had 0% non-Muslim punjabis (totally annihilated by Pak mobs)
--- few exceptions were tiny Muslim population in Malir kotla, and tiny sikh population around holy shrines such as: Nankana sahib and Punja sahib


nowhere else in India or Pak, the ethnic cleansing was so absolute so comprehensive. Around 1947 there were few riots and some uprooting around Delhi area and tiny bit in Kolkatta etc.

Muslims lost all the lands in E. Punjab that they dominated.
Hindus lost all the businesses in Lahore, Pindi that they dominated.

Muslims in pre-147 Punjab also dominated Police and army based on their sheer majority in the province. while Hindus dominated urban bureaucracy in Lahore (judges, city government etc)



And my dear poster, your post doesn't provide accurate description.

After Pakistan, Muslims gained 100 percent share of urban jobs in Lahore,
But at the same time they lost 100 percent of their lands in E. Pakistan.


peace
 
why are we even asking this question?
I am not saying this to troll, but basing it on history, 99% of Indian history has been as warring states.
What evidence did we have that India would not have disintegrated 20 years later anyways?
What evidence do we have that it still might not?
I mean just look at all the problems there with people getting upset at Land use, language, religion, race, cast, etc.

To India's credit they have managed to duct tape the situation and make it work so far, but the future is very uncertain.

As for Pakistan getting it's freedom, how can you argue against that?
If someone told you that you could be fully independent or you could controlled by an outsider, which one would you chose?

Pakistan decided that it didn't want to take part in the experiment that is India and there is nothing wrong whit that.
 
I do think, however, that all of the available and credible data and indicators confirm the fact that Muslims in Pakistan are not only much better off than they are elsewhere in South Asia, they also enjoy higher economic and social mobility than their counterparts in India and Bangladesh.

Absolutely and 100% percent agree with you Riaz Sahib! My family from both my parent's side is an evidence to it. We would not have been what we are today if it was not Pakistan.

The opportunities, the upward social mobility and cultural development Pakistan has allowed us would not have been possible. Pakistan has given us a lot but we have not given much back to our country.

My family from both sides left India for good. We have not relatives there to compare to reminisce about. So for us, everything is Pakistan. Past was another country.

God bless Pakistan and make us responsible citizen of our beloved country.
 
Absolutely and 100% percent agree with you Riaz Sahib! My family from both my parent's side is an evidence to it. We would not have been what we are today if it was not Pakistan.

The opportunities, the upward social mobility and cultural development Pakistan has allowed us would not have been possible. Pakistan has given us a lot but we have not given much back to our country.

My family from both sides left India for good. We have not relatives there to compare to reminisce about. So for us, everything is Pakistan. Past was another country.

God bless Pakistan and make us responsible citizen of our beloved country.


We have relatives in India.

We all were at the same level in 1947.

Now we are miles ahead of them (and I am not being pompous here). And No Indian can convince us that Muslims get equal opportunities in India. They do not. They face HUGE amounts of discrimination.

If it was not for the mota bhatta Khor Altaf, we would have progressed even more.

But too bad many of the Urdu speakers still carry this angry-Bihari mentality and they refused to accept Sindhis as their new brothers. And thus still caught in the Bihari-ism Mohajir-ism.

peace
 
We have relatives in India.

We all were at the same level in 1947.

Now we are miles ahead of them (and I am not being pompous here). And No Indian can convince us that Muslims get equal opportunities in India. They do not. They face HUGE amounts of discrimination.

If it was not for the mota bhatta Khor Altaf, we would have progressed even more.

But too bad many of the Urdu speakers still carry this angry-Bihari mentality and they refused to accept Sindhis as their new brothers. And thus still caught in the Bihari-ism Mohajir-ism.

peace

I read what you said. Now can we compare the minorities of the two countries? Like Muslims of India vs Hindu/Sikhs of Pakistan. Who is doing comparatively better? Please share your views.

Another thing, What ever your claims of Muslim discrimination be? but go and ask any Indian how they view Abdul Kalam or Maulana Azad as compared to Nehru/Gandhi family? To your surprise, you will find most of the people hating Nehru/Gandhi family but Abdul Kalaam & Azad would be role model for them.

Just my personal opinion,i feel that if India wasn't partitioned,may be we wouldn't have achieved the progress we have achieved now.

True with divisive politics of Muslim league & Congress, the country would have only suffered. More over, I don't want the type of incidents that are happening in Pakistan to ever happen in India.
 
Maybe except those thousands who get killed in Karachi and elsewhere routinely.
 
Back
Top Bottom