Arab tyrants better for Israel

[MOHSENAM]

Here you go, all the crimes they commit is a lie. And our religion is a lie. Of course he will always avoid a religious debate because he will always lose it! This is why they keep insisting on deliberately lying to give an excuses for their man made sect. I bet this guy doesn't even consider himself Arab.

And when he says 'Wahabi' he means:

Umar, Abu Bakr, Muhammad(SAW), Aisha(RA), every Arab sunni in the world



It kind of is mainstream but there is a large minority against their ways. I have to go now, i'll return to this discussion and I don't want the Israeli to get involved since I already know what the snake will do.

allah made a covenant with the children of israel and raised among them twelve chieftains. He said: 'i shall be with you and if you establish the prayers and pay the obligatory charity; if you believe in my messengers and assist them and give allah a generous loan, i shall forgive you your sins and admit you to gardens underneath which rivers flow. whosoever amongst you disbelieves after that, 'he indeed has strayed from the straight path'.

But because they broke their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. they changed the words from their places and have forgotten a portion of what they were reminded. except for a few, you will always find treachery from them, yet pardon them, and forgive; indeed allah loves the gooddoers.

[5.12,13]


Let me tell u something.Shia believe to Hazrat Fatimah [SAA] daughter of Prophet [PBUH] ,Hazrat Ali[SAA] his cousin and 12 Imams after him who are children of Imam Ali [SAA] , Hazrat Fatimah [SAA] and Hazrat Muahammd [PBUH]
Not Omar who injured Hazrat Fatimah [SAA] and burned her house.

 

[1000]

all that arguing while the truth is both sunnis and shias are trash


solved

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Something is terribly wrong. I can't pinpoint the sole most important thing that causes all of that but it's worrying.

Education.Industrialization(Indigeneous,not western aided).First one leads to second.

 

[al-Hasani]

Education.Industrialization(Indigeneous,not western aided).First one leads to second.

I am not sure about education. It's more about opportunities, stability and economy. You have too many highly educated people who are not being able to find a job. Across the entire ME. It's even more prevalent in South Asia, Africa and other areas of the non-Western world from what I know.

My post was just more aimed at people who are wasting their energy on issues that are not important at the end of the day instead of doing something really productive.

Of course speaking about a civic society and how that is formed also comes up here.

It's just a shame that so much potential, resources, historical baggage (maybe that is a burden due to the achievements of the past) is used in such a wrong way either directly or indirectly. Of course this can be seen across the entire world but right now it is particularly bad in certain areas of the ME. Of course also due to those areas being in conflict right now.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I am not sure about education. It's more about opportunities, stability and economy. You have too many highly educated people who are not being able to find a job. Across the entire ME. It's even more prevalent in South Asia, Africa and other areas of the non-Western world from what I know.

My post was just more aimed at people who are wasting their energy on issues that are not important at the end of the day instead of doing something really productive.

Of course speaking about a civic society and how that is formed also comes up here.

It's just a shame that so much potential, resources, historical baggage (maybe that is a burden due to the achievements of the past) is used in such a wrong way either directly or indirectly. Of course this can be seen across the entire world but right now it is particularly bad in certain areas of the ME. Of course also due to those areas being in conflict right now.

Large masses remain uneducated(problem not just in middle east but across asia),bigger problem is those that are getting educated aren't contributing anything new..u are not seeing arabian scientists win or contribute towards new innovations/thesis or nobel prizes.This is happening in other parts of asia.So there must be a problem with the quality of the educationi.e doesn't support original thinking or lacking technical part of the education.Maybe science and indigeneous research is just not given enough priority.Foreign specialists brought in too quickly instead of the hard slog?

 

[al-Hasani]

Large masses remain uneducated(problem not just in middle east but across asia),bigger problem is those that are getting educated aren't contributing anything new..u are not seeing arabian scientists win or contribute towards new innovations/thesis or nobel prizes.This is happening in other parts of asia.So there must be a problem with the quality of the educationi.e doesn't support original thinking or lacking technical part of the education.Maybe science and indigeneous research is just not given enough priority.Foreign specialists brought in too quickly instead of the hard slog?

That is actually changing and KSA for instance is in the top 40 when it comes to scientific papers and patents. In fields such as chemistry and petroleum engineering Saudi Arabia is one of the leading countries in terms of research, papers published and patents etc. The Arab world along with the ME are slowly changing that.

I am talking about proportions. You cannot compare India, which has 1.2 billion people, with KSA or any other ME country. The most important thing is per capita contribution. India might have 100-200 recognized people in this field but is that really impressive or good enough when the population is 1.2 billion big? I mean such things can always be discussed back and fourth.
What is worrying in the case of large parts of the ME is that many people have wrong priorities, that the civil societies are often a hindrance and many other problems. That's a shame considering the important and even crucial role (historically) of the ME when it came to science or what is now known as the Arab world or the potential.

Some hindrances are also religious, social and economic. No doubt about that. But I think that it is too simplistic to just point at 1 thing. I believe that it is a combination.

You can't help but wonder what went wrong when you look past in history. It's actually a surreal development. That's what is astounding to me and I know that many people have written about it extensively.

But in my view people need to look forward and get their priorities right for a start.

 

[al-Hasani]

@AUSTERLITZ

There was a time where Islamic/Muslim societies encouraged science, revived their own old local one (ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Phoenician, Levantine, Yemenite etc. etc.), that of others (Greek, Roman etc.) or founded new one but after 500 years of the Islamic Golden Age (arguably the most advanced place on earth at that time) and enlightenment this changed in an instance when the Mongols sacked Baghhad in 1258 and from that point the Islamic world never regained its position or place. 200 years after that period (the beginning of the Renaissance in Southern Europe - which the Muslims ironically helped establish greatly due to their work in Al-Andalus and elsewhere when it came to preserving knowledge and adding new. Both that of their own and that of other ancient civilizations) Europe gained supremacy and hegemony and since that period the differences have stayed intact and become even much, much greater.

So my question is then. If it's not bound in religion (Islam has clearly shown not to be an hindrance in that department), a historical lack of that (which is not the case in the ME or Arab world AT ALL) then what he hell is it?

Was it instability, a false pride, lack of innovation and willingness to change and approach new ideas that might challenge status quo, being taken advantage of by outsiders, a shallow interoperation of religion, some unfortunate new cultural practices etc.

For instance in this thread we have people discussing sects in year 2014. People who are educated. Why is that?

So this is a problem. You have engineers, lawyers and in general learned people falling into the trap of trivialities and other non-productive nonsense and when you try to challenge status quo you are sometimes labelled as a lapdog or as a person wanting foreign influence etc. While the locals forget their own history and their own region's key and central role in the earliest of sciences and technology millennium years ago or the more recent one (Islamic Golden Age - roughly from 750-1258).

It's tragicomical, worrying and sad at the same time.

I can't explain it better than this.

 

[Falcon29]

allah made a covenant with the children of israel and raised among them twelve chieftains. He said: 'i shall be with you and if you establish the prayers and pay the obligatory charity; if you believe in my messengers and assist them and give allah a generous loan, i shall forgive you your sins and admit you to gardens underneath which rivers flow. whosoever amongst you disbelieves after that, 'he indeed has strayed from the straight path'.

But because they broke their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. they changed the words from their places and have forgotten a portion of what they were reminded. except for a few, you will always find treachery from them, yet pardon them, and forgive; indeed allah loves the gooddoers.

[5.12,13]


Let me tell u something.Shia believe to Hazrat Fatimah [SAA] daughter of Prophet [PBUH] ,Hazrat Ali[SAA] his cousin and 12 Imams after him who are children of Imam Ali [SAA] , Hazrat Fatimah [SAA] and Hazrat Muahammd [PBUH]
Not Omar who injured Hazrat Fatimah [SAA] and burned her house.

Why are you citing this brother?

................

As far as what has been mentioned in a few narrations that Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) gathered at the house of Fatima (R.A.) and Umar (R.A) went there and threatened them, I would like to say that apparently after the burial of Rasoolullah (S.A.W.) and before the general Bay’at in the Masjid, Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) and a few Muhajireen Sahabah gathered at the house of Fatima (R.A.) and thought that because the general Bay’at had not yet been taken, we should appoint Ali (R.A.) as the Khalifah. They discussed this matter amongst themselves and Zubair (R.A.) also announced that he will back Ali (R.A.) with his sword. On the other hand many of the Muhajireen and Ansaar had already taken Bay’at on the hands of Abubakar (R.A.) at Saqeefa Bani Saaidah, now if another Khalifah had to be appointed, there was a great fear of revolt and the Ansaar would again have demanded that an Ameer be appointed from amongst them. Therefore, in order to suppress this revolt Umar (R.A) went to Fatima (R.A.)’s house and at that time Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) were not present. It has been stated in Kanzul Ummal that Umar (R.A) told Fatima (R.A.) that: “O the daughter of Rasoolullah (S.A.W.), nobody from amongst the people is more beloved to me than your father and nobody is more beloved to me than you after your father. I have received the bad news that these people are gathering in your house and conspiring against the Khilaafat of Abubakar. If they do not stop conspiring then by Allah! I will burn their homes.” On saying this Umar (R.A) left and when Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) arrived at the house of Fatima (R.A.), Fatima (R.A.) said to them: “Do you know that Umar came to see me and he has taken an oath that if you conspire against the Khilaafat of Abubakar he will burn your homes? By Allah! Umar will most definitely fulfil his oath. Therefore leave my house with the intention of dropping your opinions and thoughts and do not return with the same object.” Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) left the house and did not gather there again until they took Bay’at on the hands of Abubakar (R.A.). (Kanzul Ummal, Vol. 5, Page 651)

From this narration of Kanzul Ummal a few points have become clear and evident:

When Umar (R.A) arrived at Fatima (R.A.)’s house Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) were not present, therefore neither did Umar (R.A) meet them nor did a fight or quarrel break out.

1. Umar (R.A) associated with Fatima (R.A.) in a very respectful manner and also mentioned to her that she was more beloved to him than his own children.
2. Umar (R.A) did not threaten Fatima (R.A.) in any way.
3. When Umar (R.A) left Fatima (R.A.)’s house, both Fatima (R.A.) and her home were sound and intact. No harm was afflicted on either of them. Later when Ali (R.A.) arrived Fatima (R.A.) did not complain of Umar (R.A) behaving in a disrespectful manner, rather she advised him not to oppose Umar (R.A) and not to conspire against the Khilaafat of Abubakar (R.A.) in her house in future.
4. Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) took Bay’at on the hands of Abubakar (R.A.) without any coercion.

The accusations that have been levelled against Umar (R.A) that he broke down the door of Ali (R.A.)’s house and approached Ali (R.A.) and Fatima (R.A.) in a disrespectful manner and due to this Fatima (R.A.) suffered a miscarriage is totally false and a mere fabrication. In reality those who levelled this accusation are disgracing and Ali (R.A.) and Fatima (R.A.) and also making a mockery of Islam. Was Ali (R.A.) so cowardly that he could not defend his house nor avenge his wife?! When Ali (R.A.) became Khalifah why did he not take revenge nor claim the blood money from the family of Umar (R.A) for the child that he had lost?! The ones who narrate these types of narrations are in actual fact the enemies of Islam. They portray the Sahabah (R.A.) in front of the Kuffar in such a fallacious manner that they were thirsty for governance, they had no legal system, the strong used to suppress the weak, to speak the truth was a crime, the oppressors were not punished, lies were spoken in order to please rulers, just as the hypocrites they too had hatred in their hearts for their rulers. Can your heart accept such accusations and nonsense? Could the senior Sahabah behaved in such a manner? Were such Sahabah not capable of demolishing great empires such as that of Qaisar and Kisra with scanty ammunitions and means? Will Allah Ta’ala assist such oppressors?

The claim that Fatima (R.A.) had a miscarriage is a mere fabrication. It has been mentioned in an authentic book of history, i.e. Albidayah wan Nihaayah, that during the lifetime of Rasoolullah (S.A.W.), Fatima (R.A.) gave birth to a third son by the name of Muhassin and that this child passed away in his childhood. This is why the majority of the historians mentioned only two sons of Fatima (R.A.).

The reason why Umar (R.A) reacted staunchly with those who opposed the Khilaafat after Abubakar (R.A.) was appointed as the Khalifah was because Rasoolullah (S.A.W.) has said: “If anybody else claims Khilaafat after a Khalifah has been chosen from amongst the Muslims, then he should be killed no matter who he may be.” (Sahih Muslim)

After the general Bay’at took place Abubakar (R.A.) said: “I never intended to be a Khalifah nor did I demand it. If you are not pleased with this Bay’at then I will step down and you can appoint someone else as the Khalifah.” Majority of the Muhajireen, especially Ali (R.A.) refused this offer and said: “No, you (Abubakar) are more worthy of the Khilaafat than anybody else. Rasoolullah (S.A.W.) forwarded you in such an important issue such as Salaat so how can we pull you back.” When Ali (R.A.) and Zubair (R.A.) were asked why did they not take the Bay’at in the beginning? They replied that the reason was because they were consulted on the issue. It has been narrated in the Shiite book “Ihtijaaj Tabrasi” that Ali (R.A.) took Bay’at on the hands of Abubakar (R.A.) and also performed Salaat behind him. Ali (R.A.) announced during his Khilaafat that Rasoolullah (S.A.W.) did not bequest us to appoint the Khalifah and neither did he take a pledge from us. If I had a pledge then I would have never allowed Abubakar (R.A.) to climb the Mimbar of Rasoolullah (S.A.W.) but in reality Abubakar (R.A.) was worthy of Khilaafat. Rasoolullah (S.A.W.) also forwarded him, we supported him and worked with him, and after his demise we assisted Umar (R.A) and Uthmaan (R.A.)

One should ponder that if Ali (R.A.) had a pledge then he would have most definitely mentioned it during his Khilaafat when there was no fear of anybody reprimanding him or threatening him. Had Abubakar (R.A.) or Umar (R.A) oppressed him any way, he would have also mentioned it but he did not mention anything of that sort.

We have elaborated in detail on the Khilaafat of Abubakar (R.A.). One should accept that which is authentic and that which also suits the nature of the Sahabah Kiraam and Islam. Those narrations which portray false pictures of the Sahabah and Islam will not be accepted because those who opposed Islam while portraying themselves as Muslims fabricate such false narrations and spread them in such a manner that causes disunion amongst the Muslims and also that they may disperse into groups and start baying for each others blood. Not everything mentioned in the history books are authentic and you should not bother arguing with the Shiites, rather you should worry about being a practical Muslim. Also, you should mention the Sahabah in a respectful manner and do not have hatred and prejudice for any Sahabi and inculcate love for all the Sahabah. To love them is a sign of Imaan and to oppose them and hate them is a sign of hypocrisy.

If any Shiite keeps bothering you then you should ask him that: “Was Ali (R.A.) brave or cowardly? If he was brave, then why did he conceal the truth? What prevented him from disclosing the truth during the Khilaafat? If according to your belief (Shiite) Ali (R.A.) had any bequest regarding Khilaafat and governmental issues but he was not able to express them openly, then how did you find out about it? Where is this bequest of his and in which Kitaab is it to be found? Why don’t you prove it from authentic sources.”

References:

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 2, Page 1009, 1072.
Fathul Baari, Vol. 12, Page 145, Hadith no. 6830, Vol. 13, Page 208, Hadith no. 7219
Musnad Ahmad ibni Hambal, Vol. 1, Page 55, Hadith 133, Page 121, Hadith 391
Kanzul Ummal, Vol. 5, Page 635, 643-657, Hadith no. 14131-14156
Raudhul Unuf, Sharah Seerah ibni Hisham, Vol. 4, Page 260
Albidayah wan Nihaayah, Vol. 5, Page 245-252, Vol. 6, Page 301-303, Vol. 7, Page 331
Alkaamil fit Taarikh li ibni Atheer, Vol. 2, Page 189-194
Taarikh ul Islam lith Thahabi, Page 5-14, Page 639-642
Hum Sunni kiyun Hain, Page 233-248
Shia ke Hazaar Sawaal ka Jawaab, Page 291
‘Abaqaat of Allamah Khalid Mahmood

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@Malik Alashter




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Yes, Al-Qaeda might be useful for once and clean the earth from illiterate low IQ Gypsy retards like you.

Is that creature for real or is it some foreign import or a Farsi under disguise? A special case indeed.

@Hazzy997

I really don't know what to say about him either.

Just for the fun of it though .... @Malik Alashter