Arab tyrants better for Israel

[ResurgentIran]

Well this is one authors opinion.
The Israeli ambassador to US (Michael Oren) has said that Israel much rather see Al-Qaeda in power than Bashar Al Assad.
Who is more dangerous to Israel? A strategic enemy with an organized army or a bunch of mindless terrrorists that their only goal is to set up caliphate and impose their extremist views on the rest of Syrians?
I think we all know the answer.
Btw Michael Oren was later forced to retract his statement by Netanyahu, because it was very damaging.
Israel much rather see AQ/Nusrah in power than Bashar Al Assad. Because in former scenario, the state of Syria will disintegrate which Israel prefer very much.

Im not pro-Sisi. I just happen to think that Muslim Brotherhood is worse for Egyptians, because they put their ideological interests above their national interests.
And Egyptians are very patriotic people. I'll leave it to them to decide.

 

[Ceylal]

Stop trolling.

Not long ago , you were praising them and followed their advice to the letter...now, like a good arabs, they left you hanging. what is new? Arabs will be always Arabs. You want to regain what you've lost? Stand up and fight...

 

[Falcon29]

How about the Arab/Semitic world should try to regain their position as the center of civilization that they held for millenniums instead of all this political/sectarian nonsense for once?

How about we as Arabs or citizens of Arab country x or y try to advance on aspects such as technology, science etc.?
How about coming close to Israel's level (the highest in the world per capita) or maybe even surpassing them? What's stopping us? We got all the land we can wish for, a population nearly 500 million big, enormous resources (more than most others if not all) and the history.

Yet it seems that not only the Arab world but the entire Muslim world have stagnated to pathetic levels.

Yes, I know all about the scientific and technological decline in the Muslim world since centuries ago (basically 1258), colonialism, Western hegemony for the past 500 years or so etc. But that should be the past now.

Something is terribly wrong. I can't pinpoint the sole most important thing that causes all of that but it's worrying.

I want to regain our position and we ain't doing anything about it.

If all Palestinians think like this, I can assure you, you won't be able to take back even one inch from Israel in another century.

Instead of getting in to sectarian debates and trying to expel Shias, fight for your own land that is now called Israel.

Btw, what you are saying about Iraq is exactly what ISIS says to justify its murders and terrorist attacks. Calling a Shia majority country a 'Sunni Arab nation' is like what AQ groups preach in areas they are operating.

So, we better cut this sectarian nonsense.

Nothing sectarian here, Iraqi Shia are very sectarian. So whenever they're called up on it they play the sectarian card. I don't care about Iranian Shia, Iran is their own nation. However, Iraq is important from the Arab Sunni perspective and I don't have much tolerance for Arab Shia. Neither do most Arabs due to many reasons.

Not long ago , you were praising them and followed their advice to the letter...now, like a good arabs, they left you hanging. what is new? Arabs will be always Arabs. You want to regain what you've lost? Stand up and fight...

I can't understand, what do you mean bro? What are we going to fight for? Nobody does anything, they accept our situation. Now Sisi was also threatening Algeria and will get involved in Libya. Basically, the right people are staying out.

Well this is one authors opinion.
The Israeli ambassador to US (Michael Oren) has said that Israel much rather see Al-Qaeda in power than Bashar Al Assad.
Who is more dangerous to Israel? A strategic enemy with an organized army or a bunch of mindless terrrorists that their only goal is to set up caliphate and impose their extremist views on the rest of Syrians?
I think we all know the answer.
Btw Michael Oren was later forced to retract his statement by Netanyahu, because it was very damaging.
Israel much rather see AQ/Nusrah in power than Bashar Al Assad. Because in former scenario, the state of Syria will disintegrate which Israel prefer very much.

Im not pro-Sisi. I just happen to think that Muslim Brotherhood is worse for Egyptians, because they put their ideological interests above their national interests.
And Egyptians are very patriotic people. I'll leave it to them to decide.

I don't care about Israel, I care about this situation we arab citizens are complicit in. This article exists because our state and failures in the Arab world today. We have many more problems than Israel, and for Palestine that's not important as it will be a divine event when we liberate it. It's not something we're going to solve.

 

[ResurgentIran]

I want to regain our position and we ain't doing anything about it.



Nothing sectarian here, Iraqi Shia are very sectarian. So whenever they're called up on it they play the sectarian card. I don't care about Iranian Shia, Iran is their own nation. However, Iraq is important from the Arab Sunni perspective and I don't have much tolerance for Arab Shia. Neither do most Arabs due to many reasons.



I can't understand, what do you mean bro? What are we going to fight for? Nobody does anything, they accept our situation. Now Sisi was also threatening Algeria and will get involved in Libya. Basically, the right people are staying out.



I don't care about Israel, I care about this situation we arab citizens are complicit in. This article exists because our state and failures in the Arab world today. We have many more problems than Israel, and for Palestine that's not important as it will be a divine event when we liberate it. It's not something we're going to solve.

Except Iraqi Sunni Arabs are a mere 10 % of the population, if not less. The rest of the Sunni's in that country are Kurds and they dont exactly choose side between the Shia Arabs or the Sunni Arabs.

I dont like to play into sectarian debates, but as far as Iraq goes, that can hardly be considered an Arab Sunni country.

 

[al-Hasani]

Except Iraqi Sunni Arabs are a mere 10 % of the population, if not less. The rest of the Sunni's in that country are Kurds and they dont exactly choose side between the Shia Arabs or the Sunni Arabs.

I dont like to play into sectarian debates, but as far as Iraq goes, that can hardly be considered an Arab Sunni country.

25-30% actually. Kurds only make up about 10% of the total population and should not really be counted at the end of the day since they have their own tiny entity.

Anyway whether Sunni or Shia is not of that much importance and will become even more irrelevant as times goes. Most have relatives from both sects. You have tribes (larger families) where some branches are Sunni and some Shia. Yet they are both Iraqi Arabs and Muslims.

Historically, even today, 66% of the entire Iraqi geography is inhabited by a majority of Sunni Arabs. Baghdad has always historically been a Sunni Muslim city until recently where many Southerners started moving into Baghdad. Hell even Basra had a large population of Sunnis not long ago. Today they are only about 10-20%.

Most of the Shia Arabs in the South got converted not more than 2-3 centuries ago. Some a mere 4-5 generations ago.

Anyway Iraq is hardly a Shia country either since Shia's make up about 60% of the entire population. It's not like in Iran where 90% of the population are Shia or in every other Arab country except few exceptions where 90% of the population are Sunnis.

 

[Falcon29]

Except Iraqi Sunni Arabs are a mere 10 % of the population, if not less. The rest of the Sunni's in that country are Kurds and they dont exactly choose side between the Shia Arabs or the Sunni Arabs.

I dont like to play into sectarian debates, but as far as Iraq goes, that can hardly be considered an Arab Sunni country.

Those are facetious CIA numbers somehow taken during the war. This isn't a sectarian debate. There as never a Shia stronghold in Iraq in history. It's a recent thing, it was always an Arab 'Sunni' nation. And Arabs need to take it. That's unlikely though.

 

[ResurgentIran]

25-30% actually. Kurds only make up about 10% of the total population and should not really be counted at the end of the day since they have their own tiny entity.

Anyway whether Sunni or Shia is not of that much importance and will become even more irrelevant as times goes. Most have relatives from both sects. You have tribes (larger families) where some branches are Sunni and some Shia. Yet they are both Iraqi Arabs and Muslims.

Historically, even today, 66% of the entire Iraqi geography is inhabited by a majority of Sunni Arabs. Baghdad has always historically been a Sunni Muslim city until recently where many Southerners started moving into Baghdad. Hell even Basra had a large population of Sunnis not long ago. Today they are only about 10-20%.

Most of the Shia Arabs in the South got converted not more than 2-3 centuries ago. Some a mere 4-5 generations ago.

Anyway Iraq is hardly a Shia country either since Shia's make up about 60% of the entire population. It's not like in Iran where 90% of the population are Shia or in every other Arab country except few exceptions where 90% of the population are Sunnis.

The Sunni's overall are the one that make up about 30 % of the country. But Kurds are also included in that.
So I guess an estimate between 10-20 % would be fair, although its probably in the lower end.

It doesnt matter. Even if is 25-30 %, Iraq would not be an Arab Sunni country, as the clear cut majority are Shiites.
And I didnt call Iraq a Shiite country. That would be wrong, because it would marginalize other groups.
I just said that Iraq is not an Arab Sunni country

Those are facetious CIA numbers somehow taken during the war. This isn't a sectarian debate. There as never a Shia stronghold in Iraq in history. It's a recent thing, it was always an Arab 'Sunni' nation. And Arabs need to take it. That's unlikely though.

It is clearly a sectarian debate.

 

[al-Hasani]

The Sunni's overall are the one that make up about 30 % of the country. But Kurds are also included in that.
So I guess an estimate between 10-20 % would be fair, although its probably in the lower end.

It doesnt matter. Even if is 25-30 %, Iraq would not be an Arab Sunni country, as the clear cut majority are Shiites.
And I didnt call Iraq a Shiite country. That would be wrong, because it would marginalize other groups.
I just said that Iraq is not an Arab Sunni country

It's actually 40% if the Kurds are included and Sunni Arabs make up at least 25% of the population if not more. Practically all of Al-Anbar is Sunni Arab, Salah-ad-Din, vast majority of Diyala, Tikrit, Ninavah (home to the 3 biggest city in Iraq -Mosul, most of Western and Central Baghdad, large parts of Babil and in the South you also have 2-3 million Sunni Arabs.

Anyway we are speaking about like there is a difference between an Iraqi of the Shia sect belonging to the Shammari tribe for instance that is living in Hillah or an Iraqi of the Sunni sect living in Mosul belonging to the Shammari tribe. There is no such difference. Or Jabouri or Tamimi etc.

60% is not clear cut. I never made that claim.

Anyway discussing whether country x or y are Sunni or Shia (basically two of the main sects in the same religion) in a country that is diverse in that perspective and where intermarriages among those two have been common is crazy.

 

[Falcon29]

25-30% actually. Kurds only make up about 10% of the total population and should not really be counted at the end of the day since they have their own tiny entity.

Anyway whether Sunni or Shia is not of that much importance and will become even more irrelevant as times goes. Most have relatives from both sects. You have tribes (larger families) where some branches are Sunni and some Shia. Yet they are both Iraqi Arabs and Muslims.

Historically, even today, 66% of the entire Iraqi geography is inhabited by a majority of Sunni Arabs. Baghdad has always historically been a Sunni Muslim city until recently where many Southerners started moving into Baghdad. Hell even Basra had a large population of Sunnis not long ago. Today they are only about 10-20%.

Most of the Shia Arabs in the South got converted not more than 2-3 centuries ago. Some a mere 4-5 generations ago.

Anyway Iraq is hardly a Shia country either since Shia's make up about 60% of the entire population. It's not like in Iran where 90% of the population are Shia or in every other Arab country except few exceptions where 90% of the population are Sunnis.

If you think this way then all your Arab Geo-political interests will NOT be achieved. Iraq is very important for Sunni Arabs especially considering the state of the Arab world today. Your identity will also be threatened, tomorrow you'll see what's going to happen to Bahrain and elsewhere. The problem is some of these Arabs who consider themselves 'Shia' don't want to identify with Muslims or Muslim history. They see a lot of our ancestors as invaders of Persia and people misleading Islam. This means they will keep struggling to restore their identity under the pretext of a false man made sect.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Anyway discussing whether country x or y are Sunni or Shia (basically two of the main sects in the same religion) in a country that is diverse in that perspective and where intermarriages among those two have been common is crazy.

Yes, I agree about that. The point I was making is that Iraq is not an Arab Sunni country.

 

[Falcon29]

It is clearly a sectarian debate.

Okay, that's fine, maybe it's one we need to have. You told me you were agnostic if I remember, yet you probably identify as a Shia as if it's a race? Or am I wrong?

 

[al-Hasani]

If you think this way then all your Arab Geo-political interests will NOT be achieved. Iraq is very important for Sunni Arabs especially considering the state of the Arab world today. Your identity will also be threatened, tomorrow you'll see what's going to happen to Bahrain and elsewhere. The problem is some of these Arabs who consider themselves 'Shia' don't want to identify with Muslims or Muslim history. They see a lot of our ancestors as invaders of Persia and people misleading Islam. This means they will keep struggling to restore their identity under the pretext of a false man made sect.

That's actually not correct bro. It's a misunderstanding that Shia Arabs are somehow not identifying with being Arabs or the Arab world. Nothing could be further from the truth. Only a few of them do that. In fact the Arabs of Southern Iraq are more Arab or at least more true to their Arab roots and culture than many for instance urban Iraqi Sunni Arabs. It's not as simple as that. I have come to realize that those sects do not matter much.

Southern Iraqis are usually patriotic people and are not lapdogs of Iranians whom they have no warm feelings for or any other foreigners. We need to distinguish between sect and ethnicity, nationality, culture, language, country, history etc.

If I turned Shia tomorrow I would not need the guidance of Iran to do that just because they are the most numerous "Shia nation."

Both groups are just hostages in a geopolitical struggle and played out against each other. I mean 95% of all Arabs whether Sunni or Shia Saudi Arabians, Iraqi Sunni or Shias, Lebanese Shia or Sunni, Yemeni Shia or Sunni have no problems with each other. It's blown out of proportions.

There are indeed misguided people but they belong to both sects.

I think leaving sectarianism (which I see happening but slowly) is a must. It's to no gain. Especially not when brother is killing brother.

It's easy to get carried away in this pathetic conflict between those sects but it's wrong.

 

[ResurgentIran]

Okay, that's fine, maybe it's one we need to have. You told me you were agnostic if I remember, yet you probably identify as a Shia as if it's a race? Or am I wrong?

I am indeed agnostic. When I say that Iraq is not an Arab Sunni country, it is not because I have something against Sunnis, Im just going by the numbers and stating a fact.

I also said that I dont think it is a Shiite country because it implies exclusivity, which is wrong.

 

[Falcon29]

That's actually not correct bro. It's a misunderstanding that Shia Arabs are somehow not identifying with being Arabs or the Arab world. Nothing could be further from the truth. Only a few of them do that. In fact the Arabs of Southern Iraq are more Arab or at least more truth to their Arab roots and culture than many Iraqi Sunni Arabs. For instance the ones living in major cities. It's not as simple as that. I have come to realize that those sects do not matter much.

Southern Iraqis are usually patriotic people and are not lapdogs of Iranians whom they have no warm feelings for or any other foreigners. We need to distinguish between sect and ethnicity, nationality, culture, language, country, history etc.

If I turned Shia tomorrow I would not need the guidance of Iran to do that just because they are the most numerous "Shia nation."

Both groups are just hostages in a geopolitical struggle and played out against each other. I mean 95% of all Arabs whether Sunni or Shia Saudi Arabians, Iraqi Sunni or Shias, Lebanese Shia or Sunni, Yemeni Shia or Sunni have no problems with each other. It's blown out of proportions.

There are indeed misguided people but they belong to both sects.

I think leaving sectarianism (which I see happening but slowly) is a must. It's to no gain. Especially not when brother is killing brother.

It's easy to get carried away in this pathetic conflict between those sects but it's wrong.

You don't see the point. A Shia today is something very different than before. The Shia in the past were regular Muslims with political differences. Shism was never a religion nor a sect. Later it was created, and it's a threat to Islam and Arabs. Islam is very clear, yet they do the same as every other modern sect and say it is incomplete. This is a lie, therefore any arguments they make today are transgressing and oppression against Islam. What is true is true, what is false is false. They keep promoting false things in order to distance themselves from Sunni's(Arabs). It's corruption of religion, we've already gone over every argument with them they make. There's no justification for a man made ideology to exist from an Islamic POV. There is a justification for those who believe in their ideology.

Civil strife always existed in our history, whether it was with Ali(RA) or Salah Al Din. If anything, hadith says it will blow out of proportion near the end times. The problem is there isn't a religious debate. So what's the excuse for accepting this ideology? We will always have problems if it stays this way. And they don't get along as you say, there's many problems. We don't need to kill each other. We Arab Sunni's need to preserve Islam and guard our interests.

I am indeed agnostic. When I say that Iraq is not an Arab Sunni country, it is not because I have something against Sunnis, Im just going by the numbers and stating a fact.

I also said that I dont think it is a Shiite country because it implies exclusivity, which is wrong.

I get your point from a demographic POV.

 

[ResurgentIran]

At the end of the day Sunni and Shia believe in the same God and just want to live their lifes.
This sectarian shit is getting completely insane.

No wonder the Western world see us all as backward.