Anas Haqqani visits the Tomb of Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi with a veiled warning to India

[not_two]

I just wanted to know who are these subhuman, barbarians and hopeless people and countries you refer to.

Ghaznified countries with barbarian philosophies ..hint : they won't come out of that cave untill they loose everything..

 

[jamahir]

Ghaznified countries with barbarian philosophies ..hint : they won't come out of that cave untill they loose everything..

OK, so I am guessing you mean Muslims and Islam. Then let me tell you two things to start :

1. This Indian Christian woman married a "barbarian" person under his "barbarian" philosophy because that philosophy better secured her socio-economic rights in case of divorce. I quote a section and you should also note the underlined :

When we examine marriage laws in their historic context, it is interesting to note that the universally accepted notion that marriages are contractual rather than sacramental originates in Muslim law, which was accepted by the French law only in the 1800s and incorporated into the English law in the 1850s and became part of codified Hindu law as late as 1955. Today it appears to be the most practical way of dealing with the institution of marriage. Treating marriage as a sacrament which binds the parties for life has resulted in some of the most discriminatory practices against women such as sati and denial of right to divorce and remarriage, even in the most adverse conditions.

The cornerstone of a Muslim marriage is consent, ejab-o-qubul (proposal and acceptance) and requires the bride to accept the marriage proposal on her own free will. This freedom to consent (or refuse), which was given to Muslim women 1,400 years ago, is still not available under Hindu law since sacramental rituals such as saptapadi and kanya dan (seven steps round the nuptial fire and gifting of the bride to the groom) still form essential ceremonies of a Hindu marriage. Even after the codification of Hindu law, the notion of consent is not built into the marriage ceremonies.

The contract of marriage (nikahnama) allows for negotiated terms and conditions, it can also include the right to a delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez) where the woman is delegated the right to divorce her husband if any of the negotiated terms and conditions are violated.

Mehr is another unique concept of Muslim law meant to safeguard the financial future of the wife. It is an obligation, not a choice, and can be in the form of cash, valuables or securities. While there is no ceiling, a minimum amount to provide her security after marriage must be stipulated. This is a more beneficial concept than streedhan which is given by choice and usually by the natal family. In addition to Mehr, at the time of divorce, a Muslim woman has the right to fair and reasonable settlement

Though Muslim law stipulates many different ways to end a marriage, including a woman’s right to dissolve her marriage (khula), divorce by mutual consent (mubarra), delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez), judicial divorce (fasq) and dissolution under Muslim Marriage Act

What about the fanatic upholders of your "non-barbarian" philosophy who so recently were enraged by Alia Bhatt's ad for Manyavar suits where she as the bride at her wedding calls for not Kanyadaan ( traditional Hindu discarding away of the bride by her parents into the hands of her husband and in-laws ) but for Kanyamaan ( respectful existence of the bride in her husband's house ) ? And below are the misogynist and suffocating thoughts of Yogi Adityanath, another ardent upholder of your "non-barbarian" philosophy :

He believes women need male protection from birth to death and their ‘energy/power’ should be regulated or controlled, lest it become worthless and destructive.

He adds the shastras say that a woman is protected in her childhood by her father, by her husband in her youth and by her son in her old age — so that way a woman is not capable of being left free or independent.

"Protected" as in caged / owned. Such thoughts have led to the oppression and murders of females in your "non-barbarian" philosophy.

2. The "barbarian" philosophy and its time of the Islamic Golden Age and its elements like the West Asian engineer / inventor Ismail al Jazari led ultimately to the European Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution, whose benefits you and I are reaping by being on the internet.

 

[not_two]

OK, so I am guessing you mean Muslims and Islam. Then let me tell you two things to start :

1. This Indian Christian woman married a person of that "barbarian" under his "barbarian" philosophy because that philosophy better secured her socio-economic rights in case of divorce. I quote a section and you should also note the underlined :


What about the fanatic upholders of your "non-barbarian" philosophy who so recently were enraged by Alia Bhatt's ad for Maanyavar suits where she as the bride at her wedding calls for not Kanyadaan ( traditional Hindu discarding away of the bride by her parents into the hands of her husband and in-laws ) but for Kanyamaan ( respectful allowance for the bride in her husband's house ) ? And below are the misogynist and suffocating thoughts of Yogi Adityanath, another ardent upholder of your "non-barbarian" philosophy :


"Protected" as in caged / owned. Such thoughts have led to the oppression and murders of females in your "non-barbarian" philosophy.

2. The "barbarian" philosophy and its time of the Islamic Golden Age and its elements like the West Asian engineer / inventor Ismail al Jazari led ultimately to the European Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution, whose benefits you and I are reaping by being on the internet.

Read read read is my suggestion to you ..I can't talk everything here until you guarantee there will be no ban on religious discussion..Some barbarian guy is not authority on religion but the authority on religion should not be barbarian..

 

[jamahir]

I can't talk everything here until you guarantee there will be no ban on religious discussion

I can't guarantee that but if you present your argument in a rational way it will I think be seen by mods as something not bad.

..Some barbarian guy is not authority on religion but the authority on religion should not be barbarian..

Please don't talk in code. Present simple words.

 

[Akatosh]

todays actual somnath
Is rape encouraged in the temples their I wonder

Woman raped in Gir Somnath, accused on run

On March 18, 2019, he came to my house when I was alone with my children. He threatened to kill my four-year-old boy with a knife and then raped me in front of my children, said the Victim in her complaint.

indianexpress.com

Two get 14 years in jail for minor’s rape in Veraval | Rajkot News - Times of India

Rajkot: The special POCSO court in Veraval in Gir Somnath district on Thursday sentenced two men to 14 years imprisonment for raping a 16-year-old gir.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Ludhiana: Father of four rapes 19-year-old neighbour for 11 days, booked

Took her to a friend’s place after promising to marry her, say police.

www.hindustantimes.com

Rape, grime and punishment: The story of power and violence

Rapes must be understood as crimes of variegated violence and given graded punishments, premeditation and savagery topping the list.

m.economictimes.com

Dirty pagans

This news has no relation with Somnath Temple.
Plus far worse crime happened in Ghazni in recent years.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

Naah it was smashed multiple times into pieces. Hindu rajas in that era used that place to formulate their war strategy against increasing muslim dominance in the north. More than the worship place, it was an important regional militarily head quarters in 11th century until Ghaznavi neautralized it for ever and now the temple stand there is insignificant other than providing harmless worship/tourist opportunity to the locals.

I did read that this was taught in Pakistani textbooks but you seriously believe it?? it's completely made up, and only seen in Pakistani textbooks. not actual history.

Calm down. @STREANH is a sensible person. Don't be so quick to judge just because he has Indian flags. Just google for why he kept his user-name. And there is no need to defend the Taliban.

you're wasting your time with this guy, Maira. he's virulently racist and casteist, and projects his own sense of supremacy as criticism of India.

 

[not_two]

I can't guarantee that but if you present your argument in a rational way it will I think be seen by mods as something not bad.



Please don't talk in code. Present simple words.

Look dear It is laughable for me that in this age someone believes religious fairytales ..be it a flying monkey or flying donkey .. I am rational and try not your prejudice to interfere with your thinking ..If anyone thinks old barbarian laws of chopping hands and heads , laundibaaz , loot and murder of other faiths , jizya ,crusade , women as property everything is better than today's modern laws then I can only laugh..

 

[Maira La]

Ha ha ...out dated , teeth removed venomous snake hisses , ugliness is just flowing through mouth ... Come out of illness and be human once ..

You don't sound too bright. What's your caste?

Look dear It is laughable for me that in this age someone believes religious fairytales

Your problem is genes, more than the caste cult. We non-Indians will look down on you no matter what religion you follow. Gangaland is the anus of the world.

 

[jamahir]

you're wasting your time with this guy, Maira. he's virulently racist and casteist, and projects his own sense of supremacy as criticism of India.

Well, he indeed was non-sensible in that post and I hope he looks at your post, @Chhatrapati's and mine and sees that he has to correct himself.

Look dear It is laughable for me that in this age someone believes religious fairytales ..be it a flying monkey or flying donkey .. I am rational and try not your prejudice to interfere with your thinking

OK, fair enough.

If anyone thinks old barbarian laws of chopping hands and heads , laundibaaz , loot and murder of other faiths , jizya ,crusade , women as property everything is better than today's modern laws then I can only laugh..

1. Jizya - Is not applicable now. Maybe not applicable even during the time of Muslim kingdoms. Did Tipu Sultan impose jizya ?

2. Crusades - Were religious wars done by medieval European Christian kingdoms to take back West Asia from Muslims.

3. Laundiabaazi or laundabaazi ? Because the latter is cultural to some regions in the world including India and the former has been there throughout human history.

4. "Loot and murder of other faiths" - Unfortunate but has been done by other faiths too including by Hindu kings who destroyed Buddhism in India to almost extinction.

5. "Women as property" - Actually Islam was the one which gave foremost rights to women which I have posted in my previous post. Women got right to inherit property and bequeath property. They got right to consent or reject a prospective husband. They got right to divorce or to get marriage counselling. They got right to own businesses. How about other faiths ? The modern legal practices of other faiths derived their socio-economic laws, including for marriage, from Islam and which I have already posted about before. But it's another matter if some Muslims don't practice Islam as it should be and limit themselves to observing prayer, fasting and festivals.

6. Chopping of hands and heads in Saudia and Taliban rule - These people are not the ideal practitioners of Islam.

 

[not_two]

You don't sound too bright. What's your caste?


Your problem is genes, not religion. We non-Indians will look down on you no matter what religion you follow. Gangaland is the anus of the world.

You are too low for me to address ..So dwell in ugliness ..Don't quote me from gutter..

Well, he indeed was non-sensible in that post and I hope he looks at your post, @Chhatrapati's and mine sees that he has to correct himself.



OK, fair enough.



1. Jizya - Is not applicable now. Maybe not applicable even during the time of Muslim kingdoms. Did Tipu Sultan impose jizya ?

2. Crusades - Were religious wars done by medieval European Christian kingdoms to take back West Asia from Muslims.

3. Laundiabaazi or laundabaazi ? Because the latter is cultural to some regions in the world including India and the former has been there throughout human history.

4. "Loot and murder of other faiths" - Unfortunate but has been done by other faiths too including by Hindu kings who destroyed Buddhism in India to almost extinction.

5. "Women as property" - Actually Islam was the one which gave foremost rights to women which I have posted in my previous post. Women got right to inherit property and bequeath property. They got right to consent or reject a prospective husband. They got right to divorce or to get marriage counselling. They got right to own businesses. How about other faiths ? The modern legal practices of other faiths derived their socio-economic laws, including for marriage, from Islam and which I have already posted about before.

6. Chopping of hands and heads in Saudia and Taliban rule - These people are not the ideal practitioners of Islam.

In above topics give references to any one of your views on any of the topic apart from crusade ...just one topic which you think most defendable with valid references ...

 

[jamahir]

In above topics give references to any one of your views on any of the topic apart from crusade ...just one topic which you think most defendable with valid references ...

I will give two :

1. For general talk about Islamic marriage law I will again ask you to go through that Indian Christian woman's article I linked in post# 62. She knows the law :

The writer is the programme director of Majlis, a legal centre that provides socio-legal support to women survivors of violence

2. For rights of females in Islamic law for property inheritance I will quote from this document from the Indian legal system :

Muslim law recognizes two types of heirs, Sharers and Residuaries. Sharers are the ones who are entitled to a certain share in the deceased’s property and Residuaries would take up the share in the property that is left over after the sharers have taken their part.

Sharers:

The Sharers are 12 in number and are as follows: (1) Husband, (2) Wife, (3) Daughter, (4) Daughter of a son (or son's son or son's son and so on), (5) Father, (6) Paternal Grandfather, (7) Mother, (8) Grandmother on the male line, (9) Full sister (10) Consanguine sister (11) Uterine sister, and (12) Uterine brother.

The share taken by each sharer will vary in certain conditions. For instance, a wife takes 1/4th of share in a case where the couple is without lineal descendants, and a one-eighth share otherwise. A husband (in the case of succession to the wife's estate) takes a half share in a case where the couple is without lineal descendants, and a one-fourth share otherwise. A sole daughter takes a half share. Where the deceased has left behind more than one daughter, all daughters jointly take two-thirds.

If the deceased had left behind son(s) and daughter(s), then, the daughters cease to be sharers and become residuaries instead, with the residue being so distributed as to ensure that each son gets double of what each daughter gets.

Non-Testamentary and Testamentary succession under Muslim law:

In Non-testamentary succession, the Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act, 1937 gets applied. On the other hand, in case of a person who dies testate i.e. 2 one who has created his will before death, the inheritance is governed under the relevant Muslim Shariat Law as applicable to the Shias and the Sunnis.

In cases where the subject matter of property is an immovable property, situated in the state of West Bengal, Chennai and Bombay, the Muslims shall be bound by the Indian Succession Act, 1925. This exception is only for the purposes of testamentary succession.

Birthright:

Inheritance of property in Muslim law comes only after the death of a person, any child born into a Muslim family does not get his right to property on his birth. If an heir lives even after the death of the ancestor, he becomes a legal heir and is therefore entitled to a share in the property. However, if the apparent heir does not survive his ancestor, then no such right of inheritance or share in the property shall exist.

Distribution of the Property:

Under the Muslim law, distribution of property can be made in two ways – per capita or per strip distribution.

The per capita distribution method is majorly used in the Sunni law. According to this method, the estate left over by the ancestors gets equally distributed among the heirs. Therefore, the share of each person depends on the number of heirs.

The per strip distribution method is recognised in the Shia law. According to this method of property inheritance, the property gets distributed among the heirs according to the strip they belong to. Hence the quantum of their inheritance also depends upon the branch and the number of persons that belong to the branch.

Rights of females:

Muslim does not create any distinction between the rights of men and women. On the death of their ancestor, nothing can prevent both girl and boy child to become the legal heirs of inheritable property. However, it is generally found that the quantum of the share of a female heir is half of that of the male heirs. The reason 3 behind this is that under the Muslim law a female shall upon marriage receive mehr and maintenance from her husband whereas males will have only the property of the ancestors for inheritance. Also, males have the duty of maintaining their wife and children.

Widow’s right to succession:

Under Muslim law, no widow is excluded from the succession. A childless Muslim widow is entitled to one-fourth of the property of the deceased husband, after meeting his funeral and legal expenses and debts. However, a widow who has children or grandchildren is entitled to one-eighth of the deceased husband's property. If a Muslim man marries during an illness and subsequently dies of that medical condition without brief recovery or consummating the marriage, his widow has no right of inheritance. But if her ailing husband divorces her and afterwards, he dies from that illness, the widow's right to a share of inheritance continues until she remarries.

A Child in the Womb:

A child in the womb of its mother is competent to inherit provided it is born alive. A child in the embryo is regarded as a living person and, as such, the property vests immediately in that child. But, if such a child in the womb is not born alive, the share already vested in it is divested and, it is presumed as if there was no such heir (in the womb) at all.

 

[not_two]

I will give two :

1. For general talk about Islamic marriage law I will again ask you to go through that Indian Christian woman's article I linked in post# 62. She knows the law :



2. For rights of females in Islamic law for property inheritance I will quote from this document from the Indian legal system :

1. What is halala and why should a woman suffer to stay with her kids if man gives talaq ?
What about child marriage ?
Why should a women cover herself from head to toe if man can't control his lust even if he looks women's face ?
Why four marriages are allowed for man but not for woman ?
Can husband beat his wife ? Why ?
Can she refuse to get involved in sex with husband in pregnancy or other reasons ?
2.
Sharers:
The Sharers are 12 in number and are as follows: (1) Husband, (2) Wife, (3)
Daughter, (4) Daughter of a son (or son's son or son's son and so on), (5) Father,
(6) Paternal Grandfather, (7) Mother, (8) Grandmother on the male line, (9) Full
sister (10) Consanguine sister (11) Uterine sister, and (12) Uterine brother.
The share taken by each sharer will vary in certain conditions. For instance, a
wife takes 1/4th of share in a case where the couple is without lineal
descendants, and a one-eighth share otherwise. A husband (in the case of
succession to the wife's estate) takes a half share in a case where the couple is
without lineal descendants, and a one-fourth share otherwise. A sole daughter
takes a half share. Where the deceased has left behind more than one daughter,
all daughters jointly take two-thirds.
If the deceased had left behind son(s) and daughter(s), then, the daughters cease
to be sharers and become residuaries instead, with the residue being so
distributed as to ensure that each son gets double of what each daughter gets.
So this is justice according to your own source ??? Is it better than modern laws ??

 

[firohot4321]

This visit of Anas Haqqani to the Tomb of Sultan Ghaznavi has created panic waves across India. Surely the Taliban have other things in mind as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445436903860445190

View attachment 782406

Its interesting that he visited tomb of ghaznavi
I think in deobandi school of thought
Visiting shrines isn't condoned

 

[jamahir]

1. What is halala and why should a woman suffer to stay with her kids if man gives talaq ?

No, I don't know what is halala. If you mean the Instant Triple Talaq then it is not Islamic. You should have read that Christian woman's article. The real talaq is triple but it happens over three months and not the three seconds one via SMS, phone call, email, WhatsApp etc done by misinformed men. During the three months a marriage counselor who is usually the Qazi ( the local judge - there is no priest system in Islam ) tries to intercede if the wife wants, for the first month, the second and the third, with each month if not succeeding being declared a Talaq month and if after three months they don't patch up then the Talaq is brought into effect and the marriage dissolved. This system is the basis for modern Western marriage counselling which you in India also can use.

I repeat and note the underlined :

Though Muslim law stipulates many different ways to end a marriage, including a woman’s right to dissolve her marriage (khula), divorce by mutual consent (mubarra), delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez), judicial divorce (fasq) and dissolution under Muslim Marriage Act

And I suppose the qazi doing the triple talaq process ( three months ) will use the judicial divorce method.

What about child marriage ?

1. I don't see why a girl of 16 has to be called a child. It is against Nature irrespective of what modern Western laws say. Do people suddenly attain enlightenment when they come upon that magical age of 18 ? Who decided that age of 18 as one of adulthood ? If that age is so magical then everyone over the age of 18 should have contributed to making humanity a very evolved species, with no political and socio-economic tragedies and disharmony. But is that the case ? This voting age of 18 is stupid as is the British-derived political system of multiple parties, five-yearly elections and an unnecessarily complicated political system. I have had 15 or 16-year-old girls looking lasciviously with me. Should they have felt ashamed of themselves ? That Age 18 Magic is not natural. And below describes Hindu marriage practice as in the 1974 film Ankur which is set in Andhra Pradesh but existed everywhere in India :

Surya (Anant Nag), the son of the village landlord, had just finished his studies in the nearby city of Hyderabad and arrives back home. Surya's father (Khader Ali Beg) has a mistress named Kaushalya with whom he has an illegitimate son named Pratap. Surya's father claims to have given Kaushalya "the best land in the village", a gift which serves as both a token of his affection and also keeps Kaushalya quiet and satisfied. Surya is forced by his father into a child marriage with the under aged Saru (Priya Tendulkar), and begins to feel extremely sexually frustrated due to the fact that they cannot have sex until Saru reaches puberty.

How will you look at this including the film ? Note that the words "child marriage" above is an effect of modern Indian law but wasn't seen as that during the time the film is set in and it happens even now among Hindus.

2. You should search for the marriage ages of Hindu deities.

Why should a women cover herself from head to toe if man can't control his lust even if he looks women's face ?

The burqa has nothing to do with Islam. It is really a pre-Islamic Jewish garment which got adopted into some Muslim societies and in some eras. An Egyptian Muslim woman parliamentarian and academic, Amna Nosseir, has researched on this and has called for a ban on the burqa :

An Egyptian lawmaker has said members of parliament are drafting a law that would ban women from wearing the burqa in government institutions after alleging the Islamic full-face veil was a "Jewish tradition".

Amna Nosseir said on Sunday that the proposed ban would be in the best interest of Egyptian society and that she has been battling against the burqa over the past 40 years.

Nosseir, who wears the hijab, said on Wednesday that the burqa - known in Arabic as the niqab - had its origins in Jewish religious law.

"In the Old Testament, you find in chapter 38 that the Jewish religious authorities tell you that if Jewish women leave the house without covering the face and head then they are breaking Jewish religious law," the lawmaker said during an interview with local media.

"I have gathered around 20 texts by Jewish religious authorities that completely forbid women from showing their faces and heads," Nosseir said while discussing also banning female university students from wearing "ripped jeans" in lectures.

She added that this part of Jewish law became entrenched in pre-Islamic Arab tribes of the Arabian Peninsula and then spread throughout the Middle East with the Muslim conquests.

The verse the lawmaker could be referring to is Genesis 38, where a biblical figure encounters his daughter-in-law in the street and mistakes her for a prostitute because she had covered her face with a veil.

You should also watch this vid from 1966 of a speech by the great Egyptian leader Jamal Abdul Nasser who recounts his meeting with the chief of the Muslim Brotherhood group who wanted Nasser to impose the burqa on Egyptian women. Nasser makes fun of the burqa. Note the reaction of the audience. There are English subtitles.

Below is a picture of the female protagonist ( on the left ) of the Turkish serial Ertugrul which is about the setting up of the Ottoman / Usmania / Usmanli Empire. Does she wear the burqa ?

Her again in the serial :

Among my own relatives none of the women wore the burqa about 15 to 20 years ago. Now most do. This is basically a societal change brought by the misguided and misinformed Tablighi Jamaat. Most of the Muslim women who wear the burqa in the world live in India. An unfortunate situation but nothing to do with real Islam. There is no Quranic verse that declares the imposition of the burqa. It is a cultural problem.

Why four marriages are allowed for man but not for woman ?

1. Such a system emerged because of the anticipation of the phase of early Muslim wars where there would be many male casualties and therefore many widows who have to be given a socio-economically secure life.

2. But idea-wise a man can have four wives only if he can provide equally for all of them. Do justice for all of them.

Can husband beat his wife ? Why ?

You tell me.

Can she refuse to get involved in sex with husband in pregnancy or other reasons ?

Of course she can.

2.
Sharers:
The Sharers are 12 in number and are as follows: (1) Husband, (2) Wife, (3)
Daughter, (4) Daughter of a son (or son's son or son's son and so on), (5) Father,
(6) Paternal Grandfather, (7) Mother, (8) Grandmother on the male line, (9) Full
sister (10) Consanguine sister (11) Uterine sister, and (12) Uterine brother.
The share taken by each sharer will vary in certain conditions. For instance, a
wife takes 1/4th of share in a case where the couple is without lineal
descendants, and a one-eighth share otherwise. A husband (in the case of
succession to the wife's estate) takes a half share in a case where the couple is
without lineal descendants, and a one-fourth share otherwise. A sole daughter
takes a half share. Where the deceased has left behind more than one daughter,
all daughters jointly take two-thirds.
If the deceased had left behind son(s) and daughter(s), then, the daughters cease
to be sharers and become residuaries instead, with the residue being so
distributed as to ensure that each son gets double of what each daughter gets.
So this is justice according to your own source ??? Is it better than modern laws ??

You should have read that document properly. Note the underlined :

Rights of females:

Muslim does not create any distinction between the rights of men and women. On the death of their ancestor, nothing can prevent both girl and boy child to become the legal heirs of inheritable property. However, it is generally found that the quantum of the share of a female heir is half of that of the male heirs. The reason 3 behind this is that under the Muslim law a female shall upon marriage receive mehr and maintenance from her husband whereas males will have only the property of the ancestors for inheritance. Also, males have the duty of maintaining their wife and children.

So the daughter receives double property / money - one from her ancestral share and other from her marriage ( the mehr and maintenance ). The son does not receive anything from his wife. And other than that the female also has right to self-acquired property and money. Meaning through some business or investment. It is logical. But this is according to historic Islamic law which is an evolved law compared to laws of other religions and even modern Western law but in this thread I present the outline of a new economic system which abolishes the traditional money system while keeping a money system but implements the Communist ideal of abolishing economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ). This new system improves upon Islamic law and Communist ideal.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Pakistan honour this great Muslim warrior.