An Artist in Exile Tests India’s Democratic Ideals

[Vinod2070]

^^ Good post. I think Hussain should come home and apologize for the paintings which have offended a section of the people.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

All I am saying is that India should drop its pretense of being a secular society. It clearly is not and its recent behavior tends to be biased against Muslims.

 

[Neo]

That is ones own version of secularism, Hussain should paint his god as nude

It would be an act of blasphemy since paintings are not tollerated in Islam.
Otoh hinduism allows to paint nude gods and godesses...
Its got nothing to do with secularism.

 

[su-47]

All I am saying is that India should drop its pretense of being a secular society. It clearly is not and its recent behavior tends to be biased against Muslims.

This guy insulted a religion by painting the Goddesses in nude! When a Danish painter drew prophet Mohammed in a negative light, people were calling for his head, and some went as far as to associate that pic with the whole of Denmark!

He was not persecuted for his religion. any nut job who paints Goddesses in the nude will come under a lot of flak. Of course, Hindu fanatics used the fact that he was a Muslim to further their argument.

Had he painted decent pics of Goddesses, no one would have said anything. But he painted them in nude! Would you tolerate such sacrilege of your religion?

I know its hard for you to think out of the anti-india box, but just imagine for a second if a bangladeshi, regardless of his religion, drew pics of prophet mohammed naked and publicized it. How would he fare in bangladeshi society?

 

[Vinod2070]

It would be an act of blasphemy since paintings are not tollerated in Islam.
Otoh hinduism allows to paint nude gods and godesses...
Its got nothing to do with secularism.

It was a custom in a period long gone by. When the sensibilities were different and people had a different idea of morality and what is acceptable and what is not.

Now the sensibilities of the people are different and that is proved by a lot of people taking offense to it. Some Hindu artists have also been targeted for similar reasons. There is unfortunately a hardening of stance on the part of some people in India on such issues and that is resulting in cultural policing.

If paintings are not tolerated in Islam, is it not wrong for a Muslim to paint at all, though? What about painting Hindu Gods and Goddesses? Is that acceptable for him to do as a Muslim?

He is an artist and religion has nothing to do with his profession. He would attract the ire of any religious group if he hurts their feelings especially if they see him as a hypocrite in not painting his own mother's picture in the nude (that painting had dress on).

 

[Neo]

Su-47, again there's a huge difference in muslim and hindu idealogy. Nude paintings have existed in India for centuries, statues are carved in ancient temples with gods having sex., this is nothing new.

I don't think its a matter of secularism but rather religious devide. Had the artist been a hindu instead of a muslim then we would not ve having this issue.

 

[DarkStar]

That is ones own version of secularism, Hussain should paint his god as nude
then visit either side of partitioned country to face the music. Its easier to point fingers following secularism rather than following it themselves.

Mf.Hussain did not do anything that has not already happened in India.

How many temples are there with nude figurines of gods and goddesses, some in poses of copulation? If a person who happens to be a muslim continues art in the same regard, you have a problem with it? If he happened to be hindu, you would have feted him instead.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I know its hard for you to think out of the anti-india box, but just imagine for a second if a bangladeshi, regardless of his religion, drew pics of prophet mohammed naked and publicized it. How would he fare in bangladeshi society?

I agree with you but the difference is that Islam is protected by the constitution and such acts against the prophet would not be tolerated. India on the other hand claims to promote secularism so depictions of Hindu Goddesses in the nude can be tolerated on the grounds of artistic license.

 

[Vinod2070]

So the argument seems to be that while we will not tolerate any of this artistic freedom nonsense in our country and religion, we demand that from others!

Good show but fools no one.

 

[Neo]

It was a custom in a period long gone by. When the sensibilities were different and people had a different idea of morality and what is acceptable and what is not.

Now the sensibilities of the people are different and that is proved by a lot of people taking offense to it. Some Hindu artists have also been targeted for similar reasons. There is unfortunately a hardening of stance on the part of some people in India on such issues and that is resulting in cultural policing.

Yet erotic carvings in the temples of Khajuraho, Bhubaneshwar and many other places attarct mass tourism from India aswell as abroad. Even your government is actively promoting tours to these places. Visit any international travel fare and you'll find posters and brochures of these temples.

If paintings are not tolerated in Islam, is it not wrong for a Muslim to paint at all, though? What about painting Hindu Gods and Goddesses? Is that acceptable for him to do as a Muslim?

True, paintings are not allowed and as an individu he's responsible for his own acts...he's not acting on behalf of the muslims.

He is an artist and religion has nothing to do with his profession. He would attract the ire of any religious group if he hurts their feelings especially if they see him as a hypocrite in not painting his own mother's picture in the nude (that painting had dress on).

There's your answer...he is an artist creating arts! Even a liberal minded artist would know his limitations and not paint his mother in nude. Hindu Gods and Godesses otoh, they've been painted millions of times and its still accepted and valued as "art". Again nothing new...

 

[Flintlock]

Su-47, again there's a huge difference in muslim and hindu idealogy. Nude paintings have existed in India for centuries, statues are carved in ancient temples with gods having sex., this is nothing new.

I don't think its a matter of secularism but rather religious devide. Had the artist been a hindu instead of a muslim then we would not ve having this issue.

Mf.Hussain did not do anything that has not already happened in India.

How many temples are there with nude figurines of gods and goddesses, some in poses of copulation? If a person who happens to be a muslim continues art in the same regard, you have a problem with it? If he happened to be hindu, you would have feted him instead.

You both are wrong. There are no temples in India depicting gods having sex.

The depictions in Khajuraho and several other temples are of common people engaging in everyday activities, like eating, dancing, working, combing hair, having sex, etc. etc.

These temples simply serve as a reminder of pre-Islamic Indian society where sex was not considered a taboo but a normal part of daily life.
The idea of sex as a dirty word comes from Abrahmic societies.

In any case, interpreting cultural mores and historical societies is a very complicated topic and members here will be well-advised to refrain from making false judgements based on ham-handed and ignorant comparisons.

A relevant thread on understanding other cultures has been started by me here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/15841-understanding-other-cultures.html


Having said that, it is apparent that a lot of changes have taken place within Hindu society since that time, which has been influenced for over a thousand years by first Islamic and later British cultural and social values. Obviously, the attitudes towards sex today are not the same as those during the 10th century AD.

The opposition from right-wing Hindu groups is hardly surprising, however it is important to note that the institutions that matter in India - namely the Supreme Court and the Parliament, have supported Hussain's artistic freedom over the sentiments of right-wing groups.

Munshi and other Bangladeshis who feel compelled to highlight this issue should be reminded of the fact that Taslima Nasreen, who is currently living in New Delhi, was arrested in Bangladesh for insulting Islam. This is a far cry from the attitude of the Indian government towards both her and MF Hussain, and frankly it would be a laugh-worthy to even try and compare the level of freedom of expression in the two countries.

 

[DarkStar]

If muslims were selling pictures of Allah and Muhammad for 1 ruppee, then it is acceptable for artists to paint their own pictures of them...By commercialising images of Hindu and Christian Gods, they have invited artists to make their own interpretations...

 

[Goodperson]

Mf.Hussain did not do anything that has not already happened in India.

How many temples are there with nude figurines of gods and goddesses, some in poses of copulation? If a person who happens to be a muslim continues art in the same regard, you have a problem with it? If he happened to be hindu, you would have feted him instead.

I am not aware of places where Gods are painted in nude, Probably you are referring to Khajurao temples but even there I don't think gods are painted in nude. Or you are making references to lingas even there the faith and understanding is different. You should understand religion first to make such irresponsible comments.
Yes many will have problems when some person from other religions paints their Gods in nude. This has absolutely nothing to do with secularism.

If you are talking about India's policy or courts ruling then all the courts and even Supreme courts of India have absolved hussain of any wrong doing. Indian government has come out against protestors and people of majority relegion supports Hussein.

 

[Goodperson]

I agree with you but the difference is that Islam is protected by the constitution and such acts against the prophet would not be tolerated. India on the other hand claims to promote secularism so depictions of Hindu Goddesses in the nude can be tolerated on the grounds of artistic license.

Please take back your Taslima Nasreen, Atleast she has not been accused of fraud or corruption.
Please let me know the punishment in Sharia for the same.

 

[Vinod2070]

Yet erotic carvings in the temples of Khajuraho, Bhubaneshwar and many other places attarct mass tourism from India aswell as abroad. Even your government is actively promoting tours to these places. Visit any international travel fare and you'll find posters and brochures of these temples.

They are our heritage and we are proud of that. There is no reason to disown that heritage. They are the product of a period long gone. No new temples have the same kind of carvings.

True, paintings are not allowed and as an individu he's responsible for his own acts...he's not acting on behalf of the muslims.

Exactly. He is doing that as an individual and as an artist. No doubts about that. And he should be supported or opposed for his actions as an artist and not for his religion.

That doesn't seem to be the case here. Had he roused the ire of Muslims instead of Indians, most likely the people in support and those opposing him would have been just the reverse.

Unfortunate but true.

There's your answer...he is an artist creating arts! Even a liberal minded artist would know his limitations and not paint his mother in nude. Hindu Gods and Godesses otoh, they've been painted millions of times and its still accepted and valued as "art". Again nothing new...

Its not new but is not in keeping with the current sensibilities of the people. And yes, there is a new trend of cultural policing in India by some lunatics with some lumpens targeting the Valentine day crowd etc. This is one of those kinds of issues. There is a strong support for him from Indian artistic community and several other organizations.

When you talk of tradition, you may know that prophet Mohamed has been depicted in several Islamic countries for a long time. It will still not be tolerated by most Muslims if someone does it now, particularly not if they deem the depiction to be offensive.