American tourist beaten to death in greece

[gambit]

TYes some our politicians were coerced/blackmailed/bribed to send Polish troops to Afganistan and Iraq, but they did this against the will of majority of Poles.

Irrelevant.

Since you believe in collective guilt that transcend time and that since the Polish government represents Poland and the Polish people, Poland is DIRECTLY and EQUALLY responsible for any Muslim deaths at the hands of the US.

Poland sent 2000 troops to Iraq, that means 2000 US soldiers were free to commit murders against the Iraqi people, right ?

Since you believe in collective guilt and punishment, if a Muslim suicide bomber detonate in Warsaw at peak hrs and kills a bunch of Poles, by your argument, you MUST support that suicide bombing.

 

[Piotr]

Irrelevant.

Since you believe in collective guilt that transcend time and that since the Polish government represents Poland and the Polish people, Poland is DIRECTLY and EQUALLY responsible for any Muslim deaths at the hands of the US.

Poland sent 2000 troops to Iraq, that means 2000 US soldiers were free to commit murders against the Iraqi people, right ?

Since you believe in collective guilt and punishment, if a Muslim suicide bomber detonate in Warsaw at peak hrs and kills a bunch of Poles, by your argument, you MUST support that suicide bombing.

I didn't said that I believe in collective guilt. Your lack of respect towards Poland only shows that it doesn't pay off to support the so called "USA".

 

[Dai Toruko]

Since you believe in collective guilt and punishment, if a Muslim suicide bomber detonate in Warsaw at peak hrs and kills a bunch of Poles, by your argument, you MUST support that suicide bombing.

Why do you take muslims as an example?
Since when are muslim = terrorists?
Or is Breivik's action also to be understood as a Christian terrorism?
Such racist statements tell a lot about your character.

 

[bobo6661]

I didn't said that I believe in collective guilt. Your lack of respect towards Poland only shows that it doesn't pay off to support the so called "USA".

Tell that to those cheering for Trump in Poland Hmm they will call you Russian spy for talking your great knowledge in Poland So be beware of new changes

Zbigniew Brzeziński is burning in Hell now.

I think in the Hell in your head ;p

 

[gambit]

I didn't said that I believe in collective guilt. Your lack of respect towards Poland only shows that it doesn't pay off to support the so called "USA".

Of course you believe in collective guilt and its inevitability -- collective punishment.

You said in post 87 page 6...

IMO all US militarymen are responsible for millions of killed civilians in Afganistan, Iraq, Libya and other countries US invaded and looted.

Which part of 'all US militarymen' are we mistaken about collective guilt ?

If you give yourself the latitude to MORALLY condemn the entire US military for any reason you see fit, I can give myself the same latitude to morally condemn Poland for her participation in US military adventures.

You think your Poland was needed by US ? The reality is that Poland's participation in Iraq was largely symbolic, pal. Poland needed to give an impression that her military is capable. Poland also needed a real military experience and we provided that. What make you think that Poland's military leadership did not quietly asked US for participation ?

So by argument that the entire US military is responsible for crimes against Muslims in the ME, my argument is that your Poland carries the same guilt.

You struck me as the type who while having computer skills is actually not very smart. You do not think thru your argument. This one backfired on you -- badly.

Why do you take muslims as an example?
Since when are muslim = terrorists?

Take it up with our Polish forum member by his argument that the entire US military is guilty for crimes against Muslims in the ME.

Or is Breivik's action also to be understood as a Christian terrorism?

You can, and actually that was debated. The difference is that no Americans got mad about that characterization.

Such racist statements tell a lot about your character.

You want to go there ? When I was in Turkey -- Incirlik -- as an Asian-American I experienced racism from Turks. A few had to be forced into attending training sessions conducted by me.

 

[T-Rex]

If you cannot separate state v state actions, then any citizen from any country is vulnerable.

If a gang of Chinese killed a Japanese tourist, YOUR argument support that murder. Somewhere in Poland's history, someone will find something Poland did wrong and if he kills a Pole, YOUR argument support that murder.

The fact that you tries to justify the murder of this American tells me that you are nothing but a hate filled person. Am not surprised, really.

I am vehemently against Nazi behaviour be it in Greece, US or Germany but I have a question about "If you cannot separate state v state actions" this part your comment. If I'm not wrong the US judiciary has recently allowed the victims of 9/11 to sue KSA for the actions of certain individuals from KSA, now isn't this an instance of failure to separate state from individual actions?

 

[Avicenna]

I am vehemently against Nazi behaviour be it in Greece, US or Germany but I have a question about "If you cannot separate state v state actions" this part your comment. If I'm not wrong the US judiciary has recently allowed the victims of 9/11 to sue KSA for the actions of certain individuals from KSA, now isn't this an instance of failure to separate state from individual actions?

You raise a fantastic point.

I have no doubt he has an answer to explain that away as well.

 

[gambit]

I am vehemently against Nazi behaviour be it in Greece, US or Germany but I have a question about "If you cannot separate state v state actions" this part your comment. If I'm not wrong the US judiciary has recently allowed the victims of 9/11 to sue KSA for the actions of certain individuals from KSA, now isn't this an instance of failure to separate state from individual actions?

Actually, it is not. The US government is not involved in the lawsuit insofar as to say Saudi Arabia was the culprit. All the US government did was ALLOWED individuals to make their own decision on the culpability of individual Saudis regarding those individual had anything to do with 9/11.

You raise a fantastic point.

Of course it was. He is a fellow Muslim. Any level less than fantastic would be a betrayal.

I have no doubt he has an answer to explain that away as well.

And it was a good one, too. Also legally sound.

 

[T-Rex]

Actually, it is not. The US government is not involved in the lawsuit insofar as to say Saudi Arabia was the culprit. All the US government did was ALLOWED individuals to make their own decision on the culpability of individual Saudis regarding those individual had anything to do with 9/11.

That makes sense. Now, is it safe to assume that the US government would follow the same policy when non-state actors from Pakistan who might be inspired by Daesh or paid by RAW commit terrorism?

 

[-SINAN-]

You want to go there ? When I was in Turkey -- Incirlik -- as an Asian-American I experienced racism from Turks. A few had to be forced into attending training sessions conducted by me.

BS. No Turk will believe in your statement. First of all our Turkic brethren has slant eyes. I have never ever heard of any racism against Asians in our country.

 

[Penguin]

If you give yourself the latitude to MORALLY condemn the entire US military for any reason you see fit, I can give myself the same latitude to morally condemn Poland for her participation in US military adventures.

You think your Poland was needed by US ? The reality is that Poland's participation in Iraq was largely symbolic, pal. Poland needed to give an impression that her military is capable. Poland also needed a real military experience and we provided that. What make you think that Poland's military leadership did not quietly asked US for participation ?

So by argument that the entire US military is responsible for crimes against Muslims in the ME, my argument is that your Poland carries the same guilt.

The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, prompted the CIA to search for outside facilities in which to detain and interrogate high-level al-Qaeda suspects. The secret prisons, known as “black sites,” were used by the CIA to interrogate suspects, often using waterboarding to obtain intelligence.

The locations of the prisons — which spanned eight countries — were kept secret, and the information on each one was privy to only the president and a handful of other officials.

... lets not forget one of the CIA’s first and most important "black site'prisons in Europe was located in Poland. The CIA struck a $15 million deal with the Polish intelligence service to build and fortify the site, which was dubbed “Quartz.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cret-prisons-overseas/?utm_term=.1041f0acf843

 

[Mugwop]

Europeans especially serbs are hostile towards Americans being black had nothing to do with it.
All of this can't happen over a simple selfie request.

 

[Piotr]

Tell that to those cheering for Trump in Poland

To people brought to Warsaw by PiS with buses (source) from the whole Poland to show that allegedly “Poles love Trump” ?. No thanks.

I think in the Hell in your head ;p

Brzeziński supported US hegemony and unipolar world. I’m fundamentally opposed to hegemony of any country (be it USA, Russia or any other country). I support the idea of multipolar world.

Of course you believe in collective guilt and its inevitability -- collective punishment.

I didn’t said that all people in “USA” are responsible. I said that US militarymen – people who willingly serve US government (knowing that US government committed many crimes against humanity) are responsible. So this is not collective guilt. I know that there are some good people from “USA” like Edward Snowden.

You think your Poland was needed by US ? The reality is that Poland's participation in Iraq was largely symbolic, pal.

I think that Mr. “you're either with us, or against us” Bush wanted to allow guys like you to claim that countries like Poland are somehow also responsible for crimes committed by “USA”.

So by argument that the entire US military is responsible for crimes against Muslims in the ME, my argument is that your Poland carries the same guilt.

Even if we assume that Polish government is fully responsible for death of 6 people in Afganistan, it is still much less than 20 million people killed by “USA” (US government and US militarymen)

Since it seems that you have never been good at math I will try to explain this to you. 20 million can be also noted as 20000000. In fact 20000000>6 which means that 20 million is more that 6. In fact 20000000>>6 which means that 20 million is much more that 6. So your "same guilt" theory is BS.
BTW in my opinion "USA" (US government and US militarymen) is the source of evil, and USA not Poland (Polish government) is mostly responsible for death of 6 people in Nangar Khel in Afganistan. It is also USA which started this war.

You don’t have to thank me for explaining basic math to you.

You struck me as the type who while having computer skills is actually not very smart. You do not think thru your argument. This one backfired on you -- badly.

You struck me as the type who don’t understand even the basic math.

But since we are getting off-topic I suggest we should agree to disagree, should we ?

 

[Safriz]

He and his gang start to harass Serbian waiters, and Serbian boys simply few times kicked him in the head.
Tragic.
But he should realize that Serbian (or any other conservative nation) girls are not the same like Texas or Cali sluts who sleep with tons of guys until 18 birthday.

Simply, it is matter of civilization.
When our queen lost her husband she built a church to commemoretes him, when Jacky Kennedy lost her husbands, just a couple months later she spread her legs to rich Greek guy.

Then don't let your girls work in a bar and cover them in Burqa as we Muslims do.
If you allow your women to work in a bar where people get drunk and lose ability of thinking straight, then why cry ?
Its the same as working in a coal mine while wearing white cotton suit and expecting it to remain clean. It won't

 

[gambit]

I didn’t said that all people in “USA” are responsible. I said that US militarymen – people who willingly serve US government (knowing that US government committed many crimes against humanity) are responsible. So this is not collective guilt.

Of course it is collective guilt. You clearly do not have a good understanding of the concept. I will clear it up for you...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_responsibility

Collective responsibility refers to responsibilities of organizations, groups and societies. Part of it is the concept known as collective guilt by which individuals who are part of such collectives to be responsible for other people's actions and occurrences by tolerating, ignoring, or harboring them, without actively engaging.

It does not matter if you say all US citizens or not, the moment you attribute guilt to members of a group, you just engaged in collective guilt. You want all US military members to be guilty of crimes of individuals, I want all Germans to be guilty of crimes of individual Germans, past and present. That means if a Pole murder a German, by your own argument, you must support that murder as justified.

I think that Mr. “you're either with us, or against us” Bush wanted to allow guys like you to claim that countries like Poland are somehow also responsible for crimes committed by “USA”.

No one forced Poland to enter the Iraq mess. You claimed that Poles opposed, fine. That maybe so, but the Polish government represents and speaks for ALL Poles. So if an Iraqi murder a Polish soldier, under your argument of collective guilt, you must support that murder.

You don’t have to thank me for explaining basic math to you.

Your 'math' is as worthless as your arguments.