Alexander the Great/ Mauryans/ Graeco-Bactrians

[Agnihotra]

Hi,

Many a people don't realize that the greek / macedonian army ran out of the punjab arena as if its tail was on fire---and chose the water route to escape---which was the SAFEST ROUTE and the fastest route for a defeated military---. As if they had suffered a catastrophic loss---and that loss was of the death of Alexander after his defeat at the hands of Porus---.

The thing is---any invading force coming from north and conquering Punjab had only flat lands in front of it to conquer where all the booty---loot and plunder was---.

So---why did this greek / macedonian army literally ran out of the arena---because its leader was dead and they had been defeated at Jhelum---.

according to historical sources, greeks under Alexander smashed their way from Khyber pass to Arabian sea by destroying and killing punjabis and sindhis.

https://www.themaparchive.com/the-empire-of-alexander-the-great-336323-bce.html

if they were scared of Punjabis, why they attacked and conquered all of punjab after battle with porus instead of simply going back to Khyber pass ?

I am curious are not all Buddhists or followers of other faiths 'converted; at some point. Or are some baked in the oven, hot and prepared?

Most Indians are of dominant Ancestral South Indian stock [aboriginal hunter gatheres] and were prevailed on or conquered by people from Indus Region thus introducing the foundation of Hindusim. Majority of India is the aborginal underclass that become prevailed upon by people from our region.

example ?

You will find most of your elite [Brahmin etc] display significant genetic influence from western parts of the sub-continent.

lol nope. Central Asia and Levant/Neolithic homeland

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I disagree, Egyptians looks same as their forefathers.

Ancient Egyptwas not Nordic or Subsaharan country, whole of North Africa and Middle East was and still today is a Semitic land.

I take it you don’t know very many Egyptians. Roman, Arab, and Turkish rule have definitely changed the phenotype and culture of Egyptian people.

 

[Agnihotra]

I take it you don’t know very many Egyptians. Roman, Arab, and Turkish rule have definitely changed the phenotype and culture of Egyptian people.

Yes but I believe their basic genes are still same. Something like 70-30 split.

Even before arabization local peopleof Egypt for thousandsof years were Caucasoids with brown skin like most of Middle East such as Arabia, Iran and Levent.

It seems every black guy in US claims that Ancient Egypt was a black civilization untill whites and Arabs migrated and destroyed it, few nutjobs even claim to be true Jews, Greeks, Dravidians and Brahmins.

I can be wrong though.

 

[Pakistani E]

The question is, can Irani/Pakistani claim that their forefathers established IVC with that minor(tiny) DNA contribution, where as so called aboriginals can not call even with major contribution ???
Think logically.


But, where is the fusion ???
That minor contribution can not be called fusion.
Migration didn't take place in IVC time, it happened much much later.
You know, why Indian Sanghi and Pakistani Mulla historians fight and disagree over everything but are unanimous on this point with out even any single proof ???
Because their survival in modern day depends upon this. If they accept it, they are finished.
PS: linguistics is a very interesting subject. Sometimes It can also open secret doors of history.
For example: in Rigveda, word for elephant is HASTIN MRIG (हस्तिनमृग) means "animal with hand". Now what does it infer ??
It means RigVedic people had never seen elephants, so when they came in India, they started calling it "animal with hand" in amazement. That means Indian Sanghi claim of Aryans being local is false.
Regards.

Maybe you should read some of the links to the studies further about the South West Asian migrations in to the subcontinent.

Also, just because they had what is being called "aboriginal" DNA, it doesn't necessarily mean that someone hundreds of miles away is going to be a direct descendant. It's more likely that someone from this area is directly descendant from the earlier inhabitants, rather than someone who just happens to share similar ancestors.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Does anybody know the exact number of years that Mauryans held sway over coterminous Pakistan? I count just over 100. That seems blip over 5,000 years of our history but some here do make it sound as if it ruled this region for far longer.

from 305 BC till the invasion of the Graeco Bactrians at around 185 BC------120 years

and Mohyal Brahmins held Kabul for around 50 years from 850 AD to 900 AD

 

[Agnihotra]

from 305 BC till the invasion of the Graeco Bactrians at around 185 BC------120 years

and Mohyal Brahmins held Kabul for around 50 years from 850 AD to 900 AD

What Happ after 900 ?

 

[MastanKhan]

according to historical sources, greeks under Alexander smashed their way from Khyber pass to Arabian sea by destroying and killing punjabis and sindhis.

https://www.themaparchive.com/the-empire-of-alexander-the-great-336323-bce.html

if they were scared of Punjabis, why they attacked and conquered all of punjab after battle with porus instead of simply going back to Khyber pass ?



example ?



lol nope. Central Asia and Levant/Neolithic homeland

Hi,

If you had read history---you would find that over the centuries---receding militaries have destroyed and wreaked havoc over the locals on their exit from the arena---.

you have answered you comment yourself---by referencing " historical sources "---all these historical sources are greek---why would they belittle Alexander---.

The bottom line here is---if Alexander was victorious at Jhelum---then there was nothing left in his way to further his conquest to the rich fertile plains for the ultimate loot and plunder---.

His military's abrupt departure clearly indicates that---first he was defeated at Jhelum---and second---he was either killed at Tulamba / Multan or fatally wounded---.

Killed is more appropriate---.

Marcus covered for a few battles for Julius ceasar when Ceasar would be having SEIZURES---. Marcus would wear Julius's attire and his face mask and enter the battle surrounded by Ceasar's faithful body guards---and the army or the enemy did not know if it was Ceasar or if it was Marcus leading the troops---.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The bottom line here is---if Alexander was victorious at Jhelum---then there was nothing left in his way to further his conquest to the rich fertile plains for the ultimate loot and plunder---.

Tell me?

• Was there going to be some point where his troops would get tired or go on forever until they hit the South China Sea/Pacific Ocean?
• Is it possible the Greeks were only interested in the 'known world' which was marked on the east by the Persian satrapies Gandhara/Hendush [coterminous Pakistan]?
• If he [Alexander] lost why did the Greeks not hightail out by heading back to their [conquered] rout that they had come along?
• Why launch on a major thrust along the entire Indus River and then tyracing back along the terrible coast of Balochistan?

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

What Happ after 900 ?

Saffarids kicked them out of Kabul and they (Hindu Shahis) were limited to modern day Punjab and NWFP...and they would even lose these holdings because of the Ghaznavid invasions of 1000 AD

http://pro.geo.univie.ac.at/projects/khm/showcases?language=en

 

[Chhatrapati]

linguistics is a very interesting subject. Sometimes It can also open secret doors of history.

Yep indeed.

For example: in Rigveda, word for elephant is HASTIN MRIG (हस्तिनमृग) means "animal with hand". Now what does it infer ??

The thing about Sanskrit is, it can mean a lot than what's simply read and translated. That's why you see a lot of different interpretations for vedas, which changes with who translated it.
Elephants are first mentioned in Rig Veda as Vaarana, then it's mentioned as Hastinamriga which may simply relates to the trunk, and correction, when in Sanskrit, हस्तिनमृग is Hastina-mriga. Not the Hindi Hastin Mrig. Lord Ganapati is also mentioned as Hastimugha means Elephant headed and not "Hand headed" if I go by your translation. So, I don't think it's a great idea to draw conclusions by picking apart a word.

@Nilgiri I rarely find Sanskrit to Tamil or vise versa adoptions. Maybe it's my poor Tamil Vocabulary. Vaaranam means elephant in Tamil too right?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Tell me?

• Was there going to be some point where his troops would get tired or go on forever until they hit the South China Sea/Pacific Ocean?
• Is it possible the Greeks were only interested in the 'known world' which was marked on the east by the Persian satrapies Gandhara/Hendush [coterminous Pakistan]

• If he [Alexander] lost why did the Greeks not hightail out by heading back to their [conquered] rout that they had come along?
• Why launch on a major thrust along the entire Indus River and then tyracing back along the terrible coast of Balochistan?

There is an answer to this.

If we look at 'maps' of the world dating from these times, they show Oceanus directly to the east of the Persian Empire, at the end of the Ganges, that is seen to have flowed due east and flowed straight into the all-surrounding Ocean.

Aristotle had an obsession with reaching the Ocean; it is possible - this is just a speculation - that his old teacher inspired Alexander to try to reach the surrounding Ocean. That is why he wanted to go straight east, on until he reached that confluence of river and Ocean.

On another note, there is no question of having his having lost; the pattern of events before, during and after the battle does not support that at all. It is quite another thing that the battle itself may have been very hard-fought, and much closer to a narrow squeak than the historians would have liked to portray.

 

[Hamza913]

if they were scared of Punjabis, why they attacked and conquered all of punjab after battle with porus instead of simply going back to Khyber pass ?

After fighting Porus, they did go back. However, they decided to take a route going through what is now Multan. During this battle, Alexander was struck by an archer.

Alexander's campaign in the Indus was not an easy one, his troops faced bitter resistance and suffered many casualties. He himself was struck by an arrow, his beloved horse Bucephalus died, and his soldiers almost launched a mutiny.

 

[Nilgiri]

Yep indeed.


The thing about Sanskrit is, it can mean a lot than what's simply read and translated. That's why you see a lot of different interpretations for vedas, which changes with who translated it.
Elephants are first mentioned in Rig Veda as Vaarana, then it's mentioned as Hastinamriga which may simply relates to the trunk, and correction, when in Sanskrit, हस्तिनमृग is Hastina-mriga. Not the Hindi Hastin Mrig. Lord Ganapati is also mentioned as Hastimugha means Elephant headed and not "Hand headed" if I go by your translation. So, I don't think it's a great idea to draw conclusions by picking apart a word.

@Nilgiri I rarely find Sanskrit to Tamil or vise versa adoptions. Maybe it's my poor Tamil Vocabulary. Vaaranam means elephant in Tamil too right?

Yes Vaaranam is old word for elephant....not much in use in regular parlance today though. It would be one of those considered as too "Sanskrit" by "politically correct/pure" dravidian movements. "Gaja"-based words are found in other south indian languages as well...but rare in Tamil use (though would be understood).

"Yaanai" is the word I grew up with....and anyone that knows Tamil would instantly recognise.

There are actually many words for elephant in Tamil....most come from cognates describing their various attributes/colours etc.

Vaaranam however I would say is of equivalent official status to Yaanai....just has fallen out of use mostly.

"Vezham" is for the rare white elephant.

BTW, another use of hastina as elephant is Hastinapur (in Mahabharat)...city of elephants.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

After fighting Porus, they did go back. However, they decided to take a route going through what is now Multan. During this battle, Alexander was struck by an archer.

Alexander's campaign in the Indus was not an easy one, his troops faced bitter resistance and suffered many casualties. He himself was struck by an arrow, his beloved horse Bucephalus died, and his soldiers almost launched a mutiny.

It seems that Punjab too, just like Afghanistan, can be coined as the graveyard of empires.

We either made or broke empires throughout history.

Yes but I believe their basic genes are still same. Something like 70-30 split.

Even before arabization local peopleof Egypt for thousandsof years were Caucasoids with brown skin like most of Middle East such as Arabia, Iran and Levent.

It seems every black guy in US claims that Ancient Egypt was a black civilization untill whites and Arabs migrated and destroyed it, few nutjobs even claim to be true Jews, Greeks, Dravidians and Brahmins.

I can be wrong though.

You are getting away from my main point. Even if they have foreign DNA and have mixed with invaders and migrants and even adopted a completely new language (Arabic,) they are still just as Egyptian as their ancestors.

In the same vein, Pakistanis are just as native to this land as the people of the IVC.

 

[Hamza913]

It seems that Punjab too, just like Afghanistan, can be coined as the graveyard of empires.

The term cannot apply to either region. However, it can be said for both that there exists a strong tradition of militarism. Punjabi individuals like Porus, Abdullah Bhatti, Ahmad Khan Karral, Mukarrab Khan, Ilm Uddin, Sarang Khan, Shahbaz Khan Kamboh and Shabbir Sharif are examples of this.