Afghans hate of Pakistan - The real reason

[Yankee-stani]

Pra, we are NOT responsible for Afghanistan and neither we have the right to turn it into pakistan it's their country and they and only they should, and can decide it's fate. It's long over due that pakistan put it's own poor citizens first, who have gone with basics for far to long.

Afghanistan since 1947 has always been a nuisance be it any govt,from monarch Zahir Shah,to Daud Khan to the psuedo Communists only exception was the Taliban but even then always been a pain for some reason the Pasthun ultranationalist always want our lands in KPK and having dealt with Afghans in the diaspora both Secular and Islamists my opinions have became more low of them granted their food,hospitality and some of their girls are cute but mostly scrummy and hatred of Pakistan and Pakistanis

What about LeJ and the anti Shia venome they were spewing before 2001? TTP formed after the Lal Masjid debacle and 2009 Swat operation. What did you expect our goverment to do? Sit back and turn our country into a sectarian war zone? That is a terrorist sympathiser attitude.



How many Sunnis were TARGETTED just for the mere fact that they were Sunnis? Were Sunnis pulled put of busses and shot point blank?





I want that too. But not willy nilly. There has to be a call from within Afghanistan. They need to be ready for it. Pakistan is not an open bar where we just allow anybody in without any predetermination. Afghanis need Pakistan more than we need them. We are a far more stable country than them. They need to give up their unnecessary and racist hate for Pakistan and realize that before we make any move.

Exactly they are land locked craphole there backwardness is on them granted we could blame Zia,Americans and us being in the anti Soviet camp in the 80s but Afghanis primarily have to blame themselves for this mess

 

[Ladyuk]

I do have my faith in a strong Pakistan that was envisioned by Mr. Jinnah. I want all the differences between our two countries including the Kashmir issue to be solved peacefully, and as per the expectations of all parties. I am also in favour of a Plebiscite for the Kashmiri people: in today's India they will lynch me for making a statement like that as my country is experiencing its own issues with religious fascism. I am also sure there are many others in India who think like me.

A peaceful, prosperous and stable Pakistan is a natural buffer for India against the unwashed hordes of Afghanistan. I don't think these people can be brought into the 21st century. That country is as livable as Rwanda, Somalia, or Liberia. They are really at the absolute bottom when you look into any major human development statistic. It probably leads the world in terms of kidnapping, disappearances, and summary executions.

I watch a lot of Pakistani news channels. I don't think any possible mergers with Afghanistan looks alive on the country's agenda, but there might be a minority viewpoint like I read in this thread.

May I ask are you from south India? It's just I have met a lot is south Indians and you sound so like them. I know many Indians might not like the existence of pakistan, but you should thank your lucky stars day and night that you aren't a neighbour of the ghariat mand aryan master race.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

That is a terrorist sympathiser attitude.

In interest of Eid and such, I won't engage you further on this topic.

I do have my faith in a strong Pakistan that was envisioned by Mr. Jinnah. I want all the differences between our two countries including the Kashmir issue to be solved peacefully, and as per the expectations of all parties. I am also in favour of a Plebiscite for the Kashmiri people: in today's India they will lynch me for making a statement like that as my country is experiencing its own issues with religious fascism. I am also sure there are many others in India who think like me.

A peaceful, prosperous and stable Pakistan is a natural buffer for India against the unwashed hordes of Afghanistan. I don't think these people can be brought into the 21st century. That country is as livable as Rwanda, Somalia, or Liberia. They are really at the absolute bottom when you look into any major human development statistic. It probably leads the world in terms of kidnapping, disappearances, and summary executions.

I watch a lot of Pakistani news channels. I don't think any possible mergers with Afghanistan looks alive on the country's agenda, but there might be a minority viewpoint like I read in this thread.

Nice ideas, but Pakistan and Afghanistan will determine our future relations. India does not have much say in it.

Absolutely these mad mullahs were against the creation of this country from the outset. They would call baba jinnah a englishmen and would repeatedly question his iman, same with other prominent figures in the freedom movement.

After his death some of them even labelled him kafir e azam. If he was alive today do you think he would support reforming the judiciary or promoting jirga system? Infact if baba jinnah was alive today half of pakistans population would label him a liberal and the other half a kafir no doubt.

These mad mullahs have harmed pakistan irreparably and the measure of how far and extensive this cancer has spread can be seen on this very forum where supposedly educated people espouse everything baba jinnah fought against.
Truely a sad state of affairs if you question it your told that your against muslim brotherhood and unity. Sigh.

.

Look up Dr. Israr Ahmad (influenced IK) and Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani (read Quaid janazah.)

Your "moulvis" of ML and scholars helped make Pakistan possible.

Least you forget Ch. Rehmat Ali and Allama Iqbal who were instrumental in the idea of Pakistan. If anyone claim they were secular, they deserve a chittar.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Yes, our countries are enemies. Our religions also do not get along historically.

I don't agree one bit with this statement. Maybe I am an idealist but I know most people whether in India or Pakistan are better than that. I don't care whether our countries and religions (I don't have any religion though) did not get along that well historically. Now they are, and they surely will!

But yes, there are many challenges. That's not an excuse to give up.

I believe extremely strongly in my faith, like most Pakistanis do. PDF shows mainly diaspora, many of whom are secular or do not have much of a religious background.

That figures. And there is absolutely nothing wrong in having strong faith in Islam. I support it!

However, I hope you are here to understand the way of thinking of Pakistanis and not trying to get us to change for you or anyone. Many Indians have tried this and have grown frustrated. Please do not ask us to change, we won't.

I agree that asking someone to change is always a futile exercise. As you said I am definitely here to understand the way of Pakistanis, but unfortunately, it can no longer include you. You are a religious fundamentalist that supports the Taliban, Loya Jirgas, and God knows what else. I cannot be patient with your views anymore than I can the RSS/Hindutva groups. All religious extremists are the same as far as I am concerned. The Taliban is just the spitting mirror image of the RSS, as a famous Bollywood scriptwriter Javed Akhtar once said.

That said, this is the Internet, a great platform to exchange views. But I really have zero interest in knowing what a religious fundamentalist thinks. I already know those views very well for any /*Insert Religion*/

Not even a single Pakistani I met so far in real life was a religious fundamentalist. In fact, the ones I run into are usually much less religious compared to even Indian Muslims. But I need to put it on record, I have absolutely no problem with anyone who is religious, and strongly committed to his faith.

That doesn't change the fact that religious fundamentalism is a mental disease. It doesn't matter whether you're a Christian fundie Bible basher in the USA, an RSS Nazi in India, or a Taliban supporter in Afghanistan, you're all one and the same as far as I am concerned.

Islam is so dear to the heart of a Pakistani, it is the basis of Pakistan. We are united together by this fabric.

I get it that's your way of life, and you don't know any alternative to that. I have listened, and understood your views very well. But there is a diversity of opinions in your country which radically differs from yours. Right here on this thread if I may add. Somehow I find those other views more palatable to my liberal conscience.

 

[Ladyuk]

Afghanistan since 1947 has always been a nuisance be it any govt,from monarch Zahir Shah,to Daud Khan to the psuedo Communists only exception was the Taliban but even then always been a pain for some reason the Pasthun ultranationalist always want our lands in KPK and having dealt with Afghans in the diaspora both Secular and Islamists my opinions have became more low of them granted their food,hospitality and some of their girls are cute but mostly scrummy and hatred of Pakistan and Pakistanis



Exactly they are land locked craphole there backwardness is on them granted we could blame Zia,Americans and us being in the anti Soviet camp in the 80s but Afghanis primarily have to blame themselves for this mess

It won't ever change just look at Afghanistan's history it's each Afghan tribe fighting another afghan tribe for supremacy and dominance. Their culture is deeply rooted in tribal loyalty, revenge and racial supremacy. The idea that we can influence them, turn them into pakistan or God forbid merge with them flys in the face of reality. In short a fools endeavour that is destined to fail.

 

[Cliftonite]

In interest of Eid and such, I won't engage you further on this topic.



Nice ideas, but Pakistan and Afghanistan will determine our future relations. India does not have much say in it.

.

Look up Dr. Israr Ahmad (influenced IK) and Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani (read Quaid janazah.)

Your "moulvis" of ML and scholars helped make Pakistan possible.

Least you forget Ch. Rehmat Ali and Allama Iqbal who were instrumental in the idea of Pakistan. If anyone claim they were secular, they deserve a chittar.

You're overplaying the role of Mullahs. Some of them put their support behind Pakistan, some of them vehemently opposed it but Pakistan was through and through Jinnah's creation. He was a man of steel mashaAllah. Sohrawardy, Fazlul Haq, Liaquat Ali Khan, Feroz Khan and the other ML leaders too would have not made Pakistan if it were not for Jinnah.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

May I ask are you from south India? It's just I have met a lot is south Indians and you sound so like them. I know many Indians might not like the existence of pakistan, but you should thank your lucky stars day and night that you aren't a neighbour of the ghariat mand aryan master race.

I'm from Mumbai. Actually I'm a Northern Indian but views like mine are common everywhere.

Not all Indians are opposed to the creation and existence of Pakistan. Unfortunately, our Indian media has become the mouthpiece for the current fascist government led by Narendra Modi. Many Muslims are being harassed in India at the moment. But rest assured there is a strong opposition and resistance to this tyranny. Eventually the BJP will fall one way or the other.

Hindutvadi extremists in India are similar to White supremacists in Europe. As it turns out, the Talibanis are no different. I suggest all of them get together in a common party and debate each other to death.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You're overplaying the role of Mullahs. Some of them put their support behind Pakistan, some of them vehemently opposed it but Pakistan was through and through Jinnah's creation. He was a man of steel mashaAllah. Sohrawardy, Fazlul Haq, Liaquat Ali Khan, Feroz Khan and the other ML leaders too would have not made Pakistan if it were not for Jinnah.

Khair Mubarak.

We will discuss Quaid e Azam's religiosity in another thread when the time comes. He was a student (mureed) of Allama Iqbal and believed firmly in Islam. This is why I call him a Wali, he was blessed with foresight directly from Allah swt.

It won't ever change just look at Afghanistan's history it's each Afghan tribe fighting another afghan tribe for supremacy and dominance. Their culture is deeply rooted in tribal loyalty, revenge and racial supremacy. The idea that we can influence them, turn them into pakistan or God forbid merge with them flys in the face of reality. In short a fools endeavour that is destined to fail.

Same was said about Arabs pre-Islam.

 

[Ladyuk]

In interest of Eid and such, I won't engage you further on this topic.



Nice ideas, but Pakistan and Afghanistan will determine our future relations. India does not have much say in it.

.

Look up Dr. Israr Ahmad (influenced IK) and Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani (read Quaid janazah.)

Your "moulvis" of ML and scholars helped make Pakistan possible.

Least you forget Ch. Rehmat Ali and Allama Iqbal who were instrumental in the idea of Pakistan. If anyone claim they were secular, they deserve a chittar.

Allama iqbal was more into Sufism that anything else if he and baba jinnah were alive today they would not agree with many of your views least of which is embracing archaic practices like jirga. Baba jinnah himself said that religion is between man and God and that he didn't want pakistan to be a theological state run by mullahs.

Had baba jinnahs vision and values which are deeply rooted in islam been implemented today not only we as a nation would have been better off but we wouldn't have a fraction of the issues we have. If people, particular the youth do not reject mullahism and embrace jinnahism pakistan will have no viable future.

Khair Mubarak.

We will discuss Quaid e Azam's religiosity in another thread when the time comes. He was a student (mureed) of Allama Iqbal and believed firmly in Islam. This is why I call him a Wali, he was blessed with foresight directly from Allah swt.



Same was said about Arabs pre-Islam.

Pre-islam Arabs had our beloved prophet and the sahaba among them to guide them. Afghans have a assortment of warlords, tribal leaders and various leaders of secular party's all vying for power which in all likely hood will end in civil war.
As I said before we should concentrate on our own issues which we have a plethora of not least poverty.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Good points on both sides of the discussion. Nice to see civil discourse on pdf.

 

[Ladyuk]

I'm from Mumbai. Actually I'm a Northern Indian but views like mine are common everywhere.

Not all Indians are opposed to the creation and existence of Pakistan. Unfortunately, our Indian media has become the mouthpiece for the current fascist government led by Narendra Modi. Many Muslims are being harassed in India at the moment. But rest assured there is a strong opposition and resistance to this tyranny. Eventually the BJP will fall one way or the other.

Hindutvadi extremists in India are similar to White supremacists in Europe. As it turns out, the Talibanis are no different. I suggest all of them get together in a common party and debate each other to death.

Mumbai eh it's just all the south Indians that I have met so far have been very decent, reasonable and insightful. I'm not saying the rest of the Indians that I have met weren't nice it's just south Indians stood came across more tolerant.
I really, really hope decent, patriotic Indians manage to defeat these rss hindutva facist types other wise as a outsider looking in your country might not survive 8n it's current form.

I have always had this urge to crowd fund and buy a island in the middle of no where and put all these extremist on there with no way out. I bet they wouldn't survive each other's company for very long.

 

[nahtanbob]

Thank you for saying this. A lot of our Islamic oriented members turn a blind eye to this topic and say Afghans are our natural brothers. *eye roll*. I have seen Bangladeshis and Indians less hateful towards Pakistan than Afghans. Never seen one truly pro Pakistan Afghani. Their hate is almost a deep visceral hate. Even though we've been nothing but kind to him. And their presence here rots the minds of our tribals too. I had a classmate in university from FATA, his tribe exists on both sides of the borders. After PTM, he HATES the Pakistani army and state with a passion. He just can't say it loudly yet.

this is from an Afghan barber in USA. he feels pakistan has kept Afghanistan in misery for geopolitical gains of its own. of course the guy is a barber. what does he know ?

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Mumbai eh it's just all the south Indians that I have met so far have been very decent, reasonable and insightful. I'm not saying the rest of the Indians that I have met weren't nice it's just south Indians stood came across more tolerant.
I really, really hope decent, patriotic Indians manage to defeat these rss hindutva facist types other wise as a outsider looking in your country might not survive 8n it's current form.

I have always had this urge to crowd fund and buy a island in the middle of no where and put all these extremist on there with no way out. I bet they wouldn't survive each other's company for very long.

I will be biased and suggest that anyone born and bred in Mumbai is probably way more tolerant than anywhere else in India, or at least used to be that way. It is very similar to Karachi in that regard.

That said there are many RSS Nazis in that city as well including my friends, unfortunately. It's a disease which has become widespread. I left India around 2005 and have been back on several occasions. But it looks like each year, the problem is getting worse.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

this is from an Afghan barber in USA. he feels pakistan has kept Afghanistan in misery for geopolitical gains of its own. of course the guy is a barber. what does he know ?

Fundamentally, it comes down to basic manners for some people. Is this refugee perchance dripping with gratitude to USA for giving him refuge from his wartorn nation? The odd thing is, Pakistan has granted refuge for countless more afghans than USA could ever dream of doing, yet here we are, dignifying such lack of gratitude with a response.

 

[Ladyuk]

I will be biased and suggest that anyone born and bred in Mumbai is probably way more tolerant than anywhere else in India, or at least used to be that way. It is very similar to Karachi in that regard.

That said there are many RSS Nazis in that city as well including my friends, unfortunately. It's a disease which has become widespread. I left India around 2005 and have been back on several occasions. But it looks like each year, the problem is getting worse.

I've heard that Mumbai and Karachi share similarities maybe one day I will get a chance to visit and find out. The more you talk about the rss hindutva the more they sort of remind me of our extremist unfortunately. My mother was born and bred in pakistan and left when she was 21 years old, she is now in her 60s and every time she goes to visit pakistan she comes back more and more demoralised due to the widespread mullahism that is going on.