Afghans hate of Pakistan - The real reason

[Shantanu_Left]

I'll check them out for sure.

Jirgas and panchayats are rotten systems that hand out punishments like corrective rape. Where a few illiterate village leaders decide matters on their clan loyalties and skewed sense of morality. Whoever thinks it's a good system in lieu of court systems wants to take Pakistan back to the stone ages. Jirga and excellent justice systems.What a frickin joke.

Pakistan has a modern international judicial system. I hope it is strong enough and endures compared to Jirgas, Panchayats and other relics of the past. It's a joke indeed to equate such systems offering SUMMARY JUSTICE with modern legal systems that allow you the right to appeal, witness protection, prevention of coercive actions etc. really a huge list of human rights considerations.

I can't speak for Pakistan but India's legal system definitely requires a lot of reform, and there is scope for improvement. We have currently 8 million pending cases in India's judiciary. Still I wouldn't want to return to an era of Panchayats and "elder's courts" deciding a summary verdict based on their preconceived biases which they pass for wisdom.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

LHC is corrupt but the base legislation and jurisdiction in place is balanced and healthy. It can be solved out by weeding out the inherent corruption. Jirga OTOH is a completely arbitrary system that depends on the mood of the jirga leaders that day amd their clan loyalty. No concept of check and balances. Might is right.

One of the first actions of the British was to ban Islamic qazis from functioning, why do you think that is? The idea of instant, affordable local justice which could not be controlled was unpalatable for them.

Who says the qazi is not accountable? There are systems of checks and balances built into the system, but it needs to go to the top.

Unlike the British system where the judge is impartial and all evidence needs to be brought and judged in the courtroom, the Qazi is both a judge and a detective. He is not isolated to a place, and his duty is to ascertain the truth. Furthermore, he is responsible for all judgements he has made, and can revisit the cases if new evidence becomes available. He can be removed by the state if he repeatedly shows poor judgement.

He is a legal expert of Islamic law and local tradition.. He has a very high place of honor and pride in society.

This system does not exist anywhere else in the world, except in Afghanistan under Taliban, and is a big reason for the success of Taliban and their popularity.

Pakistan has a modern international judicial system. I hope it is strong enough and endures compared to Jirgas, Panchayats and other relics of the past. It's a joke indeed to equate such systems offering SUMMARY JUSTICE with modern legal systems that allow you the right to appeal, witness protection, prevention of coercive actions etc. really a huge list of human rights considerations.

I can't speak for Pakistan but India's legal system definitely requires a lot of reform, and there is scope for improvement. We have currently 8 million pending cases in India's judiciary. Still I wouldn't want to return to an era of Panchayats and "elder's courts" deciding a summary verdict based on their preconceived biases which they pass for wisdom.

This system functioned in Hindustan for 800 years. It was successful and fit the needs of the people.

I don't know the way it is practiced in India, but in Muslim countries a Qazi is an expert of fiqh, the legal tradition of Islam. Next to Sultan and Wazir, Qazi was the next most respected person in society.

 

[Cliftonite]

One of the first actions of the British was to ban Islamic qazis from functioning, why do you think that is? The idea of instant, affordable local justice which could not be controlled was unpalatable for them.

Who says the qazi is not accountable? There are systems of checks and balances built into the system, but it needs to go to the top.

Unlike the British system where the judge is impartial and all evidence needs to be brought and judged in the courtroom, the Qazi is both a judge and a detective. He is not isolated to a place, and his duty is to ascertain the truth. Furthermore, he is responsible for all judgements he has made, and can revisit the cases if new evidence becomes available. He can be removed by the state if he repeatedly shows poor judgement.

He is a legal expert of Islamic law and local tradition.. He has a very high place of honor and pride in society.

This system does not exist anywhere else in the world, except in Afghanistan under Taliban, and is a big reason for the success of Taliban and their popularity.



This system functioned in Hindustan for 800 years. It was successful and fit the needs of the people.

I don't know the way it is practiced in India, but in Muslim countries a Qazi is an expert of fiqh, the legal tradition of Islam. Next to Sultan and Wazir, Qazi was the next most respected person in society.

Looooool. The Taliban were no flourishing emblem of justice. You could get flogged in the main square for something as simple as shaving your beard or for women, venturing out of the house without a mehram. Read the testimonies of the Afghans who lived during that time. No sane Pakistani wants that barbarism except for Maudoodi fanboys. You're free to emigrate to Afghanistan after Taliban takes over if you want. Humaray achay khaase mulk ka baira gharq nahi karo apni Caliphate ki fantasies mein

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

It's a joke indeed to equate such systems offering SUMMARY JUSTICE with modern legal systems that allow you the right to appeal, witness protection, prevention of coercive actions etc. really a huge list of human rights considerations.

Ask any Pakistani about our judicial system, it is the opinion of the vast majority of Pakistanis that it should be reformed. You have terrorists who attack our army and people, released on technicalities. It is being proxy controlled by foreign powers. The judicial system has completely failed in Pakistan.

When Benazir was killed, Zardari blocked the case. He burned all evidence. He delayed the proceedings.

Nawaz Sharif and his goons kept getting our of jail, and they even allowed him to leave the country, much to the anger of Imran Khan. Not one dollar of looted wealth has been returned, despite WikiLeaks, concrete money trail, and the whole country knowing the names of those involved and amounts of money stolen.

It has outlived its usefulness.

 

[Cliftonite]

Ask any Pakistani about our judicial system, it is the opinion of the vast majority of Pakistanis that it should be reformed. You have terrorists who attack our army and people, released on technicalities. It is being proxy controlled by foreign po we ers. The judicial system has completely failed in Pakistan.

When Benazir was killed, Zardari blocked the case. He burned all evidence. He delayed the proceedings.

Nawaz Sharif and his goons kept getting our of jail, and they even allowed him to leave the country, much to the anger of Imran Khan. Not one dollar of looted wealth has been returned, despite WikiLeaks, concrete money trail, and the whole country knowing the names of those involved and amounts of money stolen.

It has outlived its usefulness.

Reform it then. Get out on the streets and ask for change. Initiate protest movements. Don't advocate barbaric regimes where hands are cut off in the main square of Kabul on Fridays. We don't want a society like that.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Looooool. The Taliban were no flourishing emblem of justice. You could get flogged in the main square for something as simple as shaving your beard or for women, venturing out of the house without a mehram. Read the testimonies of the Afghans who lived during that time. No sane Pakistani wants that barbarism except for Maudoodi fanboys. You're free to emigrate to Afghanistan after Taliban takes over if you want. Humaray achay khaase mulk ka baira gharq nahi karo apni Caliphate ki fantasies mein

So you believe every Western tabloid and their outrageous remarks about Taliban? Then further you seem not get that Taliban of the early years were a collection of many different small local governed areas loosely tied to a central leadership. Taliban law varied from state to state, laws depended on the area which was governed, people were removed and reinstated again and again. It was a project which was the first of its kind in the world in a long time, a genuine Islamic reformation in action.

You again are taking shots at my religious views. What does Maulana Maududi have anything to do with this?

Why should I leave my comfortable home in my country in Pakistan for a foreign nation, because my views are different than yours? What kind of nonsense are you on? What relation does any of this have to do with Khilafat?

Talk to me again when you learn to behave.

Reform it then. Get out on the streets and ask for change. Initiate protest movements. Don't advocate barbaric regimes where hands are cut off in the main square of Kabul on Fridays. We don't want a society like that.

You have to contend with Taliban as our neighboring country as a reality. Pakistan and Afghanistan relations will soar to the sky.

It matters not what your beliefs are. I am telling you about the coming reality. Reformation is going to take place in Pakistan itself.

If you listen to Imran Khan, he praises the Jirga system also and sees it as a model for instant, affordable, and reliable justice in Pakistan for all, on a basis of equality. No longer will the poor and rich have different systems of justice.

 

[Cliftonite]

So you believe every Western tabloid and their outrageous remarks about Taliban? Then further you seem not get that Taliban of the early years were a collection of many different small local governed areas loosely tied to a central leadership. Taliban law varied from state to state, laws depended on the area which was governed, people were removed and reinstated again and again. It was a project which was the first of its kind in the world in a long time, a genuine Islamic reformation in action.

You again are taking shots at my religious views. What does Maulana Maududi have anything to do with this?

Why should I leave my comfortable home in my country in Pakistan for a foreign nation, because my views are different than yours? What kind of nonsense are you on? What relation does any of this have to do with Khilafat?

Talk to me again when you learn to behave.



You have to contend with Taliban as our neighboring country as a reality. Pakistan and Afghanistan relations will soar to the sky.

It matters not what your beliefs are. I am telling you about the coming reality. Reformation is going to take place in Pakistan itself.

If you listen to Imran Khan, he praises the Jirga system also and sees it as a model for instant, affordable, and reliable justice in Pakistan for all, on a basis of equality. No longer will the poor and rich have different systems of justice.

You can drink the kool aid and play brother brother with Afghanis. Jab woh mulk ka baira gharq kardein phir mat bolna. We've been through this already during Zia. We can see what the influx of Afghans and Islamization did to us. What about the tribals who formed TTP? Don't shoo it away by saying it was funded by India and the USA. Who were the foot soldiers carrying it out? It was your beloved Afghanis and tribals. How many Shias, Hazaras, Ismailis and Christians died at their hands? You don't care about your own minority countrymen, the most you can do is offer a few words of lip service of condemnation at their plight. But Afghaniyon ke liye itne ziada otaawlay hoye ja rahay ho.

Not everything is a conspiracy by the West to dismantle the Muslims. There are many functioning Muslim countries we can emulate like Turkey and Indonesia. We don't have to emulate mullahs from Tora Bora. It might be fun for you because you wouldn't be at the end of their persecution. It's our women and our non Sunni minorities.

 

[Ladyuk]

You can drink the kool aid and play brother brother with Afghanis. Jab woh mulk ka baira gharq kardein phir mat bolna. We've been through this already during Zia. We can see what the influx of Afghans and Islamization did to us. What about the tribals who formed TTP? Don't shoo it away by saying it was funded by India and the USA. Who were the foot soldiers carrying it out? It was your beloved Afghanis and tribals. How many Shias, Hazaras, Ismailis and Christians died at their hands? You don't care about your own minority countrymen, the most you can do is offer a few words of lip service of condemnation at their plight. But Afghaniyon ke liye itne ziada otaawlay hoye ja rahay ho.

Not everything is a conspiracy by the West to dismantle the Muslims. There are many functioning Muslim countries we can emulate like Turkey and Indonesia. We don't have to emulate mullahs from Tora Bora. It might be fun for you because you wouldn't be at the end of their persecution. It's our women and our non Sunni minorities.

You know I said it before on this very thread these people won't stop till they have turned our country to Afghanistan.

Baba jinnah was a lawyer, who got his education from the UK. Had he not I doubt we would even have a country today. He did not espouse the jirga system or any other archaic tribal system he embraced modernity without which we today would be living under the jack boots of the hindutva fascists.

 

[Cliftonite]

You know I said it before on this very thread these people won't stop till they have turned our country to Afghanistan.

Baba jinnah was a lawyer, who got his education from the UK. Had he not I doubt we would even have a country today. He did not espouse the jirga system or any other archaic tribal system he embraced modernity without which we today would be living under the jack boots of the hindutva fascists.

Shias, Ahmedis, Ismailis braced the partition and put their trust in Pakistan, only for these mullahs to sell them out for Afghanis and other 'real' Muslim brothers. Jinnah himself was an Ismaili, he appointed Ahmedis, Hindus and Christians in chief posts. He kept women at the forefront of political activity, his sister Fatima Jinnah, Rana Liaquat Ali, Pasha Haroon, Shaista Ikramullah led the way for women. These mullah fanboys want to take our women back to the stone ages, having tribal leaders decide their personal matters in jirgas.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You can drink the kool aid and play brother brother with Afghanis. Jab woh mulk ka baira gharq kardein phir mat bolna. We've been through this already during Zia. We can see what the influx of Afghans and Islamization did to us. What about the tribals who formed TTP? Don't shoo it away by saying it was funded by India and the USA.

Musharraf's bad policies post-2001 gave anti-Pakistan elements an impetus. You even had Punjabi Taliban, does that make all Punjabis guilty?

How many Shias, Hazaras, Ismailis and Christians died at their hands? You don't care about your own minority countrymen, the most you can do is offer a few words of lip service of condemnation at their plight. But Afghaniyon ke liye itne ziada otaawlay hoye ja rahay ho.

These are very strong allegations, all unwarranted.

How many Sunnis died from terrorism, do you remember? Only Non-Sunnis important for you?

Not everything is a conspiracy by the West to dismantle the Muslims. There are many functioning Muslim countries we can emulate like Turkey and Indonesia. We don't have to emulate mullahs from Tora Bora. It might be fun for you because you wouldn't be at the end of their persecution. It's our women and our non Sunni minorities.

We learn from China and Turkey too. When did I every deny this? I want a state apparatus that functions in Afghanistan too.

Otherwise if we listen to you, we wait for the next foreign power to come and set up shop in Kabul to start pushing terrorists into Pakistan.

We cannot afford to not be involved in Afghanistan. I know it is far from Karachi, but please understand.

Leave your racial and sectarian rivalries out.

You know I said it before on this very thread these people won't stop till they have turned our country to Afghanistan.

Baba jinnah was a lawyer, who got his education from the UK. Had he not I doubt we would even have a country today. He did not espouse the jirga system or any other archaic tribal system he embraced modernity without which we today would be living under the jack boots of the hindutva fascists.

No, we want to turn Afghanistan into Pakistan. A functional and viable state which can provide for its people. For that and for our own betterment, Pakistan needs to shore up its Islamic credentials. It necessitates a change.

Our current system post-British has failed and outlived its usefulness. We bring a modern Islamic model based on nationalism and protection for all segments of society, who will resist?

Pakistan is thirsty for this kind of Islam, this is what made Ertugrul so popular.

 

[Ladyuk]

Shias, Ahmedis, Ismailis braced the partition and put their trust in Pakistan, only for these mullahs to sell them out for Afghanis and other 'real' Muslim brothers. Jinnah himself was an Ismaili, he appointed Ahmedis, Hindus and Christians in chief posts. He kept women at the forefront of political activity, his sister Fatima Jinnah, Rana Liaquat Ali, Pasha Haroon, Shaista Ikramullah led the way for women. These mullah fanboys want to take our women back to the stone ages, having tribal leaders decide their personal matters in jirgas.

Absolutely these mad mullahs were against the creation of this country from the outset. They would call baba jinnah a englishmen and would repeatedly question his iman, same with other prominent figures in the freedom movement.

After his death some of them even labelled him kafir e azam. If he was alive today do you think he would support reforming the judiciary or promoting jirga system? Infact if baba jinnah was alive today half of pakistans population would label him a liberal and the other half a kafir no doubt.

These mad mullahs have harmed pakistan irreparably and the measure of how far and extensive this cancer has spread can be seen on this very forum where supposedly educated people espouse everything baba jinnah fought against.
Truely a sad state of affairs if you question it your told that your against muslim brotherhood and unity. Sigh.

 

[Yankee-stani]

The only reason any sane Pakistani should support the Taliban is for geostrategic reasons not ideological Taliban on the ideological front are far from sane but I can respect them only for their struggle against Yankee occupiers for two decades as for Afghanistan I dont trust Afghans one bit many trully hate us but they are pathetic weak country always outside interference

 

[Ladyuk]

Musharraf's bad policies post-2001 gave anti-Pakistan elements an impetus. You even had Punjabi Taliban, does that make all Punjabis guilty?



These are very strong allegations, all unwarranted.

How many Sunnis died from terrorism, do you remember? Only Non-Sunnis important for you?



We learn from China and Turkey too. When did I every deny this? I want a state apparatus that functions in Afghanistan too.

Otherwise if we listen to you, we wait for the next foreign power to come and set up shop in Kabul to start pushing terrorists into Pakistan.

We cannot afford to not be involved in Afghanistan. I know it is far from Karachi, but please understand.

Leave your racial and sectarian rivalries out.



No, we want to turn Afghanistan into Pakistan. A functional and viable state which can provide for its people. For that and for our own betterment, Pakistan needs to shore up its Islamic credentials. It necessitates a change.

Our current system post-British has failed and outlived its usefulness. We bring a modern Islamic model based on nationalism and protection for all segments of society, who will resist?

Pakistan is thirsty for this kind of Islam, this is what made Ertugrul so popular.

Pra, we are NOT responsible for Afghanistan and neither we have the right to turn it into pakistan it's their country and they and only they should, and can decide it's fate. It's long over due that pakistan put it's own poor citizens first, who have gone with basics for far to long.

 

[Cliftonite]

Musharraf's bad policies post-2001 gave anti-Pakistan elements an impetus. You even had Punjabi Taliban, does that make all Punjabis guilty?

What about LeJ and the anti Shia venome they were spewing before 2001? TTP formed after the Lal Masjid debacle and 2009 Swat operation. What did you expect our goverment to do? Sit back and turn our country into a sectarian war zone? That is a terrorist sympathiser attitude.

These are very strong allegations, all unwarranted.

How many Sunnis died from terrorism, do you remember? Only Non-Sunnis important for you?

How many Sunnis were TARGETTED just for the mere fact that they were Sunnis? Were Sunnis pulled put of busses and shot point blank?

No, we want to turn Afghanistan into Pakistan. A functional and viable state which can provide for its people. For that and for our own betterment, Pakistan needs to shore up its Islamic credentials. It necessitates a change.

I want that too. But not willy nilly. There has to be a call from within Afghanistan. They need to be ready for it. Pakistan is not an open bar where we just allow anybody in without any predetermination. Afghanis need Pakistan more than we need them. We are a far more stable country than them. They need to give up their unnecessary and racist hate for Pakistan and realize that before we make any move.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

You know I said it before on this very thread these people won't stop till they have turned our country to Afghanistan.

Baba jinnah was a lawyer, who got his education from the UK. Had he not I doubt we would even have a country today. He did not espouse the jirga system or any other archaic tribal system he embraced modernity without which we today would be living under the jack boots of the hindutva fascists.

I do have my faith in a strong Pakistan that was envisioned by Mr. Jinnah. I want all the differences between our two countries including the Kashmir issue to be solved peacefully, and as per the expectations of all parties. I am also in favour of a Plebiscite for the Kashmiri people: in today's India they will lynch me for making a statement like that as my country is experiencing its own issues with religious fascism. I am also sure there are many others in India who think like me.

A peaceful, prosperous and stable Pakistan is a natural buffer for India against the unwashed hordes of Afghanistan. I don't think these people can be brought into the 21st century. That country is as livable as Rwanda, Somalia, or Liberia. They are really at the absolute bottom when you look into any major human development statistic. It probably leads the world in terms of kidnapping, disappearances, and summary executions.

I watch a lot of Pakistani news channels. I don't think any possible mergers with Afghanistan looks alive on the country's agenda, but there might be a minority viewpoint like I read in this thread.