Afghanistan’s Future according to Amrullah Saleh

[halupridol]

Saleh does have a interesting point of view.

 

[Kaniska]

@Kaniska Bhaijan -- and (not trolling now, and not being sarcastic at all -- but genuinely asking): Our Indian brothers must know this right? so why do we get the arguments about roots like the ones you posted. What I've stated above is pretty basic and not rocket science.

BTW, as a side: I registered a couple of times for Sanskrit classes but unfortunately had to drop out of them due to time commitments and I practiced yoga after coming to the US for many years -- hope to restart next year.

Never mind dear friend...as i stated to my Pakistan friends who is now my current room mate as well as in forum....We fight because...we love to fight each other....We have a very strange kind of hostility....We are 2 nation where fight war, but we love to know about each other so eagerly what is happening in each other, we see each other s movie, we stay together when we are outside....In US, you know very well, Pakistan person will feel secure to stay with a Indian roommate than a Chines room mate...And in the same way, Indian will stay with Pakistan or BD people rather than any Russian room mate...

So all these things has some intrinsic message which every one understand it...Starting with the sane people in both sides....So chill out..we might fight in PDF because, it is most entertaining time pass in this forum...And it is also another reason because, we never had any story of togetherness in post independence to talk about....So it is not like we do not understand, rather we have been forced to misuunderstand because, we never really sure about histroy..our histroy is written and influenced by the crooked British people..

So in my opinion, South Asia should really invest in writing the true history of the region with proper reserch and sincerity rather than just getting biased where you adapt every thing from Arab, we keep on denying that Islam has not any role in Indian history...As long as these 2 things are not understood and accepted...We are not moving forward...

 

[Razia Sultana]

Really, really?

So India preferes to be called by a name given by Europeans -- why use it at all -- why not go back to your roots like Bombay became Mumbai, Banglore became Banaluru, etc. Why use India.

What people forget to say remember conveniently is that Modern India as in 1946 was cobbled together by the Europeans, yes the British. So a united India would have been a British concoction. For all the swadeshi fans (and I guess I am one to an extent) why stick with a European definition of ourselves. Why not go to princely states, or Ashoka's kingdom.

And, if we are to look to at our other Human cousins. Iran is not called Persia nor is Italy called Rome. Iranians have not given up their culture because they are no longer called Persia.

Because Pakistan was founded in 1947 -- people somehow think Pakistanis popped out of thin air in 1947. We are as old or as young as anybody else.

Further the US is only 229 years old -- they don't seem to have any issues when dealing with 5000 year old states now do they.

Age is but a number?

Razi Sultana as confused as Amrullah Saleh?

Further why don't Razi Sulatan and Amrullah Saleh convert back to Hinduism and Buddism respectively, clearly their forefathers converted only a few centuries ago.

Yes, many Indians, specially english speaking Indians prefer India and Indians although the original name is Bharat or Bharatiya Ganarajya meaning Indian Republic. India has many names like Bharat, Hind, Hindustan, Aryawart, Jamboodweep and India but aryawart and jamboodweep are not prevalent now. As regards to Mumbai and Bengaluru, these are the local names and local governments made it official.

What you fail to understand is that when anyone refered to India, Hind or Bharatvarsh b4 1946, they referred to the sub himalayan land east of Persia and until Myanmar. This land was ruled by hundreds of kingdoms and a few like Asoka, Mughals and British ruled over entire sub continent. Modern nationalism is a 20th century phenomenon and nations were still settling well after the WW-II. Indian nationalism does not go back pre-historic time but it formed along the freedom movement. India's nationalist movement is synonymous with freedom movement nd democratic movement. With one movement we achieved our freedom, democracy and nationalism.

India and Pakistan share their history and heritage but the issue is pakistanis hate the words India and hindu and when they look before 1947, they find themselves as Indians. So they do all kinds of things to distinguish themselves from India and then they wonder about their roots. Then suddenly they remember about Islam and try to make it as their roots as distinct from indians.

Thanks for suggesting me to convert to hinduism but my family traces its roots to central asia/afghania that came to india alongwith a muslim army and then settled here. Unfortunately my earliest ancestor who accepted the path shown by Rasool Allah (saw) was not a hindu but his later progeny chose to live like a muslim in a land where hindus were in majority. But I can clearly see how blinded you get when you run out of arguments.

 

[pakistani342]

Yes, many Indians, specially english speaking Indians prefer India and Indians although the original name is Bharat or Bharatiya Ganarajya meaning Indian Republic. India has many names like Bharat, Hind, Hindustan, Aryawart, Jamboodweep and India but aryawart and jamboodweep are not prevalent now. As regards to Mumbai and Bengaluru, these are the local names and local governments made it official.

What you fail to understand is that when anyone refered to India, Hind or Bharatvarsh b4 1946, they referred to the sub himalayan land east of Persia and until Myanmar. This land was ruled by hundreds of kingdoms and a few like Asoka, Mughals and British ruled over entire sub continent. Modern nationalism is a 20th century phenomenon and nations were still settling well after the WW-II. Indian nationalism does not go back pre-historic time but it formed along the freedom movement. India's nationalist movement is synonymous with freedom movement nd democratic movement. With one movement we achieved our freedom, democracy and nationalism.

India and Pakistan share their history and heritage but the issue is pakistanis hate the words India and hindu and when they look before 1947, they find themselves as Indians. So they do all kinds of things to distinguish themselves from India and then they wonder about their roots. Then suddenly they remember about Islam and try to make it as their roots as distinct from indians.

Thanks for suggesting me to convert to hinduism but my family traces its roots to central asia/afghania that came to india alongwith a muslim army and then settled here. Unfortunately my earliest ancestor who accepted the path shown by Rasool Allah (saw) was not a hindu but his later progeny chose to live like a muslim in a land where hindus were in majority. But I can clearly see how blinded you get when you run out of arguments.

I had made some very specific criticism.

1. The Indus valley civilization is not in India -- the decedents of Indus valley civilization are Pakistanis or Indians who come from lands now under Pakistan -- not other people of the sub-continent -- and especially not people who claim to be arab or central asian settlers. It is you my sister who are confused
2. All Muslims are converts too -- perhaps you should convert to that religion which your ancestors practiced -- Arab paganism or Bhuddism or Animal Worship? Which was it?
3. Why is it that Indian muslims who claim to be Syeds, Qazis and Qureshis look like the rest of us -- those who converted from Hinduism -- could it be that actually at your core you are insecure or think of Hindu origin as lesser?
4. We are anonymous here, but I wonder if you stood in a lineup say in NYC, would people think of you as an Arab, Turk or Tamil? I am sure that both you and I would get classified as Tamil but the "common person standard" -- so where does this Arab or other ancestry come from or is your Arab or Central Asian ancestry made up like the others I know.
5. Anyhow aap ko apka Rasulullah payara ho hamay apna Shiva phujaree aabaa-o ajdad
6. Before 1947 I see a state cobbled together by the British. Before the state that was cobbled together by the British it consisted of warring states. To scare us children, our elders would evoke stories of Sikhs coming and that they would dump our bodies in wells. So please spare us your kindergarten-esque knowledge
7. Further how is the progeny of an invading army preaching houb-e-hind to Pakistanis -- the invading army that subjugated a native population? strange times?
8. By your argument the progeny of Hindus today choose to live as Pakistanis just as whatever your origin was and however you came to India now choose to be a Muslim (central asian mind you -- no brown wallas here) and live in India.
9. Oh and I suspect the Pakistani Muslims when they look at India shudder that in the Worlds largest democracy a raper and torcher of Muslims rose to the highest office in the Land, in a state founded by the likes of Ghandi and Nehru -- I think we'll duke it our here with the TTP but please no Modi -- Aap ko aap ka Modi bhi mubarak ho
10. Poetic justice: the great grand daughter of an invader has to live under Modi? Karma or no Karma -- I say Karma!!!

Snide joke:

Two Syeds get into a fight: claiming the other is not a Syed
They go before a judge and witnesses are produced
When the first witness is called he testifies:
I don't know about Syed A but Syed B is definitely a Syed
The judge asks the witness why does he state that
The witness responds by saying: well your honor because I saw Syed B add Syed one day to his name.

@Razia Sultana -- after several edits I'm happy with this version -- enjoy ;-)

 

[Gazi]

Even i am also surprised...I am not trolling now...Let us be honest...the Pakistan is the place of the Sindhu Civilization...But you guys never ever tries to accept your roots....rather you accepted the roots of the people who invaded you and us too....And for us, we call them invaders so we accept the emotions of a place which is supposed to be unline you who accepts invaders are your hero...That is why you never carries the legacy of the great civilization..

Civilization this civilization that I think its good that we came out of this historic Mumbo Jumbo and start looking at present and Future of whatever we have as I see it is quite a distraction in moving forward for any country in the World. Pakistan in its current form is more of a Confederation of four major Culture and many Subculture exist within and all of them are dependent on each other as every Unit lack something which other Units have and this is what keeping things in Pakistan in order otherwise Internal Chaos can be devastating.

Punjab doesnt have an open sea while Sindh and Baluchistan have one, KPK doesnt have much Fertile Lands and Open Sea while Sindh have an open Sea and Punjab have fertile Land, Baluchistan doesnt have enough Manpower to develop and Extract its resources and Protect them on their own but Densely populated Punjab, Sindh and KPK have this resource available and last comes Sindh their whole Agriculture depends on flow of Indus River that comes from Punjab so everyone is dependent on one another in Pakistan.

Baluchistan had always been either with Arabs or with Persia while KPK had been with Afghans throughout the history while Punjab and Sindh have same roots as most of North India but despite of that they are together and we cant consider Afghans as Invaders at least not of ****

Pakistan may look Quite Fragile from outside but from inside that is not the case there are only Conflicts of Interests some conflict among distribution of Resources which is part of the problem every Third World Country but having something like Breakaway Crisis like East Pakistan wont going to happened. The identity of Pakistan is getting Stronger day by day and within few years there wont be any threat left of Ethno-Nationalist movement trying to separate their Unit from Pakistan while Nationalist Politics would continue to survive.

 

[Razia Sultana]

1. You are wrong here. there are many centers of Indus valley civilization that are on the east of Radcliff Line. Dravidians are perhaps the descendents of indus valley people later subjugated by horse riding aryan hindus and pushed southwards. Aryan Hindus are not original to India. Only tribals can claim to be somewhat originals of this land.
2. You are correct. all muslims are convert but we dont know what my ancestors practiced before converting to islam, nor it matters to us anymore.
3. There are many muslims in pakistan who share their surname with sikhs. Do they still feel insecure? If so, then there must be something drastically wrong with your nation and society as Jinnah and Iqbal were barely 2nd generation muslims. You will also find lots of difference between syeds, qazis and qureshis from hyderabad, bhopal, lucknow and patna. social mobility among muslims are very high at least in India.
4. I dont understand your point. But its a fact that except dravidians and other tribals, all the hindus and muslims came via Khyber Pass. Although its very strange but in my village we have both dark and fair people among hindus and muslims. feeling of superiority or inferiority among muslims is only economic but among hindus its many.
5. Yes, it is better we keep our faith and religion personal and not try to infringe that personal boundary..
6. You are confusing with medieval princely states and modern nationalism. Earlier a king defined a state and boundaries kept changing during and after his reign but a nation is defined by its people based on certain traits and values.
7. The progenies of an invading army made this land their home and this land relieved them of their nomadic, barbaric past. Indians dont take pride in weilding sword and riding horse, be he a fearsome sikh, moustached rajput or bearded muslim. times do change.
8. I could not agree with you more. Certain Indians chose to live as muslim and called their country Pakistan. Lets not talk about skin color. Even hindus claim to be aryans who came to india from caucasus.
9. Its good enough a point to look within and find out if you still get influenced by propaganda. Pakistan's PM came to witness his swearing in and will be rolling out red carpet for him in next SAARC summit in Pakistan.
10. I live in a democracy and I value democracy. I dont live under anybody. We all live by our constitution. My Karma awaits Kiama.

We have learnt and teach our children not to discriminate on the basis of caste, creed or religion. We tell our hindu friends that there is no place for caste, creed or color in Islam.... so i would have said the same what the witness told in your story. Anyone who writes Syed as part of his name is a Syed for me.

I had made some very specific criticism.

1. The Indus valley civilization is not in India -- the decedents of Indus valley civilization are Pakistanis or Indians who come from lands now under Pakistan -- not other people of the sub-continent -- and especially not people who claim to be arab or central asian settlers. It is you my sister who are confused
2. All Muslims are converts too -- perhaps you should convert to that religion which your ancestors practiced -- Arab paganism or Bhuddism or Animal Worship? Which was it?
3. Why is it that Indian muslims who claim to be Syeds, Qazis and Qureshis look like the rest of us -- those who converted from Hinduism -- could it be that actually at your core you are insecure or think of Hindu origin as lesser?
4. We are anonymous here, but I wonder if you stood in a lineup say in NYC, would people think of you as an Arab, Turk or Tamil? I am sure that both you and I would get classified as Tamil but the "common person standard" -- so where does this Arab or other ancestry come from or is your Arab or Central Asian ancestry made up like the others I know.
5. Anyhow aap ko apka Rasulullah payara ho hamay apna Shiva phujaree aabaa-o ajdad
6. Before 1947 I see a state cobbled together by the British. Before the state that was cobbled together by the British it consisted of warring states. To scare us children, our elders would evoke stories of Sikhs coming and that they would dump our bodies in wells. So please spare us your kindergarten-esque knowledge
7. Further how is the progeny of an invading army preaching houb-e-hind to Pakistanis -- the invading army that subjugated a native population? strange times?
8. By your argument the progeny of Hindus today choose to live as Pakistanis just as whatever your origin was and however you came to India now choose to be a Muslim (central asian mind you -- no brown wallas here) and live in India.
9. Oh and I suspect the Pakistani Muslims when they look at India shudder that in the Worlds largest democracy a raper and torcher of Muslims rose to the highest office in the Land, in a state founded by the likes of Ghandi and Nehru -- I think we'll duke it our here with the TTP but please no Modi -- Aap ko aap ka Modi bhi mubarak ho
10. Poetic justice: the great grand daughter of an invader has to live under Modi? Karma or no Karma -- I say Karma!!!

Snide joke:

Two Syeds get into a fight: claiming the other is not a Syed
They go before a judge and witnesses are produced
When the first witness is called he testifies:
I don't know about Syed A but Syed B is definitely a Syed
The judge asks the witness why does he state that
The witness responds by saying: well your honor because I saw Syed B add Syed one day to his name.

@Razia Sultana -- after several edits I'm happy with this version -- enjoy ;-)

 

[Gazi]

1. You are wrong here. there are many centers of Indus valley civilization that are on the east of Radcliff Line. Dravidians are perhaps the descendents of indus valley people later subjugated by horse riding aryan hindus and pushed southwards. Aryan Hindus are not original to India. Only tribals can claim to be somewhat originals of this land.
2. You are correct. all muslims are convert but we dont know what my ancestors practiced before converting to islam, nor it matters to us anymore.
3. There are many muslims in pakistan who share their surname with sikhs. Do they still feel insecure? If so, then there must be something drastically wrong with your nation and society as Jinnah and Iqbal were barely 2nd generation muslims. You will also find lots of difference between syeds, qazis and qureshis from hyderabad, bhopal, lucknow and patna. social mobility among muslims are very high at least in India.
4. I dont understand your point. But its a fact that except dravidians and other tribals, all the hindus and muslims came via Khyber Pass. Although its very strange but in my village we have both dark and fair people among hindus and muslims. feeling of superiority or inferiority among muslims is only economic but among hindus its many.
5. Yes, it is better we keep our faith and religion personal and not try to infringe that personal boundary..
6. You are confusing with medieval princely states and modern nationalism. Earlier a king defined a state and boundaries kept changing during and after his reign but a nation is defined by its people based on certain traits and values.
7. The progenies of an invading army made this land their home and this land relieved them of their nomadic, barbaric past. Indians dont take pride in weilding sword and riding horse, be he a fearsome sikh, moustached rajput or bearded muslim. times do change.
8. I could not agree with you more. Certain Indians chose to live as muslim and called their country Pakistan. Lets not talk about skin color. Even hindus claim to be aryans who came to india from caucasus.
9. Its good enough a point to look within and find out if you still get influenced by propaganda. Pakistan's PM came to witness his swearing in and will be rolling out red carpet for him in next SAARC summit in Pakistan.
10. I live in a democracy and I value democracy. I dont live under anybody. We all live by our constitution. My Karma awaits Kiama.

We have learnt and teach our children not to discriminate on the basis of caste, creed or religion. We tell our hindu friends that there is no place for caste, creed or color in Islam.... so i would have said the same what the witness told in your story. Anyone who writes Syed as part of his name is a Syed for me.

Here is my take India, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not Nation State rather a they are CONFEDERATIONS and in Confederations National Pride and Association to Prehistoric Civilizations means nothing rather UNITY is what is what Matters the most. In India I dont think South Indians share much of their Historic Achievements with North Indians while in Pakistan Persian Stock of Baluch and Pashtuns doesnt share many Achievements with Indian Stock of Punjabi and Sindhis as well. Even Afghanistan has North South Problem where North has consider itself part of Greater Khorasan while South is Pashtun Heartland. When we have so much cultural diversity then how can we promote one over another and claim that our Nations are Stronger in all of this????

Internal Unity is the answer for countries like India, Afghanistan and Pakistan to survive and Thrive. Pride is just a Distraction in such level of cultural diversity and it serves no purpose for Nation Building and development. Sooner or later Afghans had to understand that as well and come to terms with Pakistan and accept Durrand Line as permanent Border and live in peace with their neighbours rather then giving headaches like they are giving us today. I dont know how you end up with Amrullah Saleh's mindless rant but even he dont know how to fix his Country as well the person I believe is capable over there is Ashraf Ghani due to his Background of Economics and his experience in serving one of the leading institution of the World but seems like he is surrounded by Warlords couldnt do much of a job himself as he is like a small Fish in a Shark Pool right now only to be eaten if he moves his Fins. With such situation I can only hope that Afghanistan would ever become a Functioning State in near future.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Here is my take India, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not Nation State rather a they are CONFEDERATIONS and in Confederations National Pride and Association to Prehistoric Civilizations means nothing rather UNITY is what is what Matters the most. In India I dont think South Indians share much of their Historic Achievements with North Indians while in Pakistan Persian Stock of Baluch and Pashtuns doesnt share many Achievements with Indian Stock of Punjabi and Sindhis as well. Even Afghanistan has North South Problem where North has consider itself part of Greater Khorasan while South is Pashtun Heartland. When we have so much cultural diversity then how can we promote one over another and claim that our Nations are Stronger in all of this????

Internal Unity is the answer for countries like India, Afghanistan and Pakistan to survive and Thrive. Pride is just a Distraction in such level of cultural diversity and it serves no purpose for Nation Building and development. Sooner or later Afghans had to understand that as well and come to terms with Pakistan and accept Durrand Line as permanent Border and live in peace with their neighbours rather then giving headaches like they are giving us today. I dont know how you end up with Amrullah Saleh's mindless rant but even he dont know how to fix his Country as well the person I believe is capable over there is Ashraf Ghani due to his Background of Economics and his experience in serving one of the leading institution of the World but seems like he is surrounded by Warlords couldnt do much of a job himself as he is like a small Fish in a Shark Pool right now only to be eaten if he moves his Fins. With such situation I can only hope that Afghanistan would ever become a Functioning State in near future.

I agree. Afghanistan should recognize Durand Line and focus on their stability and development.