Af-Pak - Destined For Conflict

[H!TchHiker]

Don't dare to fight with Afghanies . NATO comited to saport . paf will be destroyed in only 3 days . And in field war afganies are far expirianced . it would be a blonder to pak

Define Afganies ? what is this term mean ?

 

[haviZsultan]

Af-Pak – Destined for conflict

by Asfandyar Bhittani | Published on January 4, 2017

No, Not all out war, yet, but war nonetheless. The proxy war and the war of rhetoric. Pakistan and Afghanistan are among the very few countries that hate each other while sharing the same religion, both being Islamic republics and big chunks of their respective populations sharing the same heritage, Yet we couldn’t be further apart. Like other countries, what we share doesn’t unite but actually divides us.

The Problem

For most Af-Pak commentators, the history and the problems or interference start at 1979 and they consider Mujahideen and afghan Taliban the problem. But Afghan Taliban aren’t the problem or even the Pakistani Taliban, or Daud Khan’s Invasion Of Bajaur In 1960-61, or his support for racial militants in Pakistan in the 1970s or Bhutto’s support for Massoud and Haqqani or Zia’s Support for mujahideen. None of them are problems for they all are PRODUCTS of the same problem, which is the day of July 26, 1949, when the Afghan Loya Jirga unrecognised the Durand line and unilaterally declared Durand line agreement void.

Afghan Viewpoints & Legitimacy of Durand Line
There are many arguments Afghanistan and its leaders have made but some of them have been the centerpiece or their narrative.

The biggest argument the Afghan side made is that “The agreement had a 100-year expiry date” This claim is totally false. The expiry date myth has its roots in ‘Second Convention of Peking’ of 1898 Between Qing dynasty of China & UK, where a 99 years clause was written in the agreement, There is no mention of any time frame in the Durand line agreement. There is also a contradiction in this narrative and Afghan government actions. If the agreement was to expire after 100 years, in 1993, why declare it void in 1949?

Afghanistan answer to this question is that “The Agreement was between Afghanistan & British India (British raj), not Pakistan, and with the end of British Raj, Afghanistan declared it void” This argument is technically incorrect. Afghanistan declared it void TWO YEARS AFTER the end of British Raj and formation of a Pakistani successor state which inherited the Durand Line agreement and Vienna Convention on Succession of States in Respect of Treaties (VCSSRT) backs the Pakistani argument on the inheritance of the agreement.

One argument Afghanistan makes is that “It was signed by Amir Abdur Rahman Khan under duress, without consulting his government” But considering that the successive Afghan regimes ratified the agreement in 1905, 1919 & 1921, the “duress” narrative falls apart.

The third argument that Afghan politicians make is that “The border divides the Pashtun population in two.” But this argument is a two-edged sword, their own purposed Indus river border would also divide Pashtuns in two. Today there are more Pashtuns in Karachi than in Peshawar, let alone Kabul. Many others live in Rawalpindi, Lahore or like me, in Islamabad.
Another argument includes equating Durand line with Line of control (LoC) in Kashmir. This is the most absurd as both are worlds apart in reality. No one, neither India or Pakistan consider it a permanent border. It is disputed territory according to UN. Durand line on other hand is literally considered international border by everyone except Afghanistan.

And The last major argument made is that “Pashtun land on Pakistan’s side of Durand Line belongs to Afghanistan or Pashtuns should be reunited as Pashtunistan under Afghanistan, due to similar language and customs.” There is no legal basis for this claim, otherwise, half the world will be claiming the other half & vice versa. But if the argument is even considered, logically the smaller Pashtun body should join the larger one & consider there are twice as many Pashtuns in Pakistan, this argument will only backfire on Afghanistan.

Pashtunistan is a dead horse. Even the staunch Pashtun nationalists, like ANP, don’t call for secession.

The Products of Loya Jirga rejection of Durand Line Agreement
Its only natural for a state to follow the policies its government has prescribed for it. And thus we saw Afghan army under Prime Minister Daud Khan unsuccessfully invading Bajaur twice in 1960-61. Then came 1970s, when we saw President Daud Khan hosting and arming, Mukti Bahini styled, Anti-Pakistan militants of BPLF and politicians like Ajmal Khattak in 1973. National Awami Party leaders were paid in Afghanistan by India for ‘Pashtunistan‘. This is confirmed by Jumma Khan Sufi, a close aide of Ajmal Khattak, in his book ‘Faraib e Natamam’. These policies also continued after communist Saur revolution.

But before Saur, naturally, came Pakistan’s first response after 26 years in 1975, Bhutto responded to Daud Khan with Ahmad Shah Massoud, Hekmatyar & Jalaluddin Haqqani. They failed in the 70s but were much more successful under Zia in 80s. Post-1979 history is well discussed and we all know how this tit for tat has been going on since then.

The Only Available Antidote

What’s the Solution? Peace Talks between Afghanistan and Pakistan like Ashraf Ghani suggested? No. The only reason Ghani tried to reach out to Pakistan was because Afghanistan has realised it has lost the asymmetric war with Pakistan (TTP was in full retreat in 2015) like PM Daud realized that he has lost the conventional war with Pakistan in the 1960s & started an asymmetric one. These Peace talks will bear no fruit as they aren’t the antidote.

Afghanistan needs to understand, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. As long as Afghanistan doesn’t recognise the Durand border agreement, its state apparatus will naturally have to keep kicking the dead horse of Pashtunistan and create trouble for Pakistan, and Pakistan will naturally reply in the same tongue.

If Afghanistan can live with their other borders, in which they had no say in, why can’t they abide with the one they once agreed to? If Afghanistan doesn’t reverse the 1949 decision made by Loy Jirga, Af-Pak region is destined for conflict.

https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/blog/af-pak-destined-for-conflict/#

Author - Asfandyar Bhittani

Wrora this is a brilliantly written peace. I too am an independent journalist and though you did not mention this in our initial meeting on PDF (where I welcomed you to the site) this is a great piece. I have been searching for articles by Pakistani pashtuns who give the Pakistani perspective. Some traitors and Afghan nationals have constantly been painting a picture contrary to the beliefs and views of modern Pakistani pashtuns. I have argued against these views extensively when I was on various pashtun forums for the purpose of research for my first book.

It is simple that most of pashtun history belongs to Pakistan. Not only because most pashtun leaders like Ahmed Shah Durrani, Lodhis and others including poets like Rehman Baba and philosophers like Pir Roshan were born in Pakistan, or parts under us but also because about 70% of the Pashtun population is Pakistani and not only that, Pakistani by choice. With 30 million pashtuns Pakistan can stake a larger claim to Pashatun history than Afghanistan's 14 million.

Then the Durand line agreement was signed by Abdur Rehman Khan and the British, an Afghan national monarch. He sacrificed the lar pashtun lands to save bar pashtuns, namely he saved Kandahar and Kabul by signing a treaty with the British. It was an insensitive act and pashtun history from that point on in 1983 diverged for ever. Pashtuns in Afghanistan were jealous and viewed the southern lands as theirs, dreaming of Durrani era dominance. Pakistani Pashtuns fought for Pakistan and joined the muslim league in great numbers to the extent that 3 of 4 now or never movement philosphers were pashtuns. Afghans are lost in a past that can never be the future. It is unfair, after 100+ years now that the pashtuns in Pakistan are richer, culturally stronger and powerful the Afghans want them back. Where the hell were they when Pakistani pashtuns came to ask for support of Afghanistan against the British or rebelled multiple times against them. Why have the Afghans not accepted the Durand line as the de facto border after so much?

Today the terrorism in Pakistan is exported from Afghanistan, 61, 62 saw raids from Afghanistan in Bajaur. So it is untrue that Afghanistan has beef with Pakistan over its Afghan policy since 1980's. It is in the Durand line.

Personally I love pashtuns including Afghan ones, but how can I allow someone to advocate for the break up of Pakistan, my country? It would be beneficial if all Pashtuns join Pakistan. Infact more beneficial to Afghanistan than Pakistan. But if they insult punjabis, our brothers and attack Pakistan, our country we will give them a rude awakening they will never forget. The sentiment among Afghan nationals is highly against Pakistan. It always has been.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

The biggest problem is Pakistan's desire to essentially rule over Afghanistan. Period.

Are you sure?

Ever since day one; Afghanistan has been hostile towards Pakistan. They have launched many incursions, supported many insurgencies and have tried to undermine Pakistan on the international stage at every opportunity they receive. Even during the wars with India, those two-faced cowards mobilized their armies on the border to divert forces our forces from the Indian Front. Meanwhile Pakistan has shown nothing but open & supportive arms till recent times.

Pakistan has never been interested in 'ruling' over Afghanistan; it's only some naive kids pushing for a merger or invasion. It serves in the interest of no country in absorbing a country thats economy is built on drugs and aid, that has one of the most impoverished population and is rampant in violence and crime. Afghanistan can rot by itself, we will not allow it to take down Pakistan with them. There is a reason why Pakistan is building multi-layered walls on the border.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Wrora this is a brilliantly written peace. I too am an independent journalist and though you did not mention this in our initial meeting on PDF (where I welcomed you to the site) this is a great piece. I have been searching for articles by Pakistani pashtuns who give the Pakistani perspective. Some traitors and Afghan nationals have constantly been painting a picture contrary to the beliefs and views of modern Pakistani pashtuns. I have argued against these views extensively when I was on various pashtun forums for the purpose of research for my first book.

It is simple that most of pashtun history belongs to Pakistan. Not only because most pashtun leaders like Ahmed Shah Durrani, Lodhis and others including poets like Rehman Baba and philosophers like Pir Roshan were born in Pakistan, or parts under us but also because about 70% of the Pashtun population is Pakistani and not only that, Pakistani by choice. With 30 million pashtuns Pakistan can stake a larger claim to Pashatun history than Afghanistan's 14 million.

Then the Durand line agreement was signed by Abdur Rehman Khan and the British, an Afghan national monarch. He sacrificed the lar pashtun lands to save bar pashtuns, namely he saved Kandahar and Kabul by signing a treaty with the British. It was an insensitive act and pashtun history from that point on in 1983 diverged for ever. Pashtuns in Afghanistan were jealous and viewed the southern lands as theirs, dreaming of Durrani era dominance. Pakistani Pashtuns fought for Pakistan and joined the muslim league in great numbers to the extent that 3 of 4 now or never movement philosphers were pashtuns. Afghans are lost in a past that can never be the future. It is unfair, after 100+ years now that the pashtuns in Pakistan are richer, culturally stronger and powerful the Afghans want them back. Where the hell were they when Pakistani pashtuns came to ask for support of Afghanistan against the British or rebelled multiple times against them. Why have the Afghans not accepted the Durand line as the de facto border after so much?

Today the terrorism in Pakistan is exported from Afghanistan, 61, 62 saw raids from Afghanistan in Bajaur. So it is untrue that Afghanistan has beef with Pakistan over its Afghan policy since 1980's. It is in the Durand line.

Personally I love pashtuns including Afghan ones, but how can I allow someone to advocate for the break up of Pakistan, my country? It would be beneficial if all Pashtuns join Pakistan. Infact more beneficial to Afghanistan than Pakistan. But if they insult punjabis, our brothers and attack Pakistan, our country we will give them a rude awakening they will never forget. The sentiment among Afghan nationals is highly against Pakistan. It always has been.

First of All Thank you.
i didnt mention that i write, occasionally, because it didnt occur as important to me at that time. i agree with you that afghan nationals have been portraying a false picture & many of them have been viciously attacking me on social media (twitter) for my views, calling me gul khan among other things i cant post here, i mentioned that i live in islamabad in my article, one of them here indirectly said he doesnt care what a pashtun in islamabad thinks

i agree with the rest of your statement too.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

IS Pakistan ready to give up one fourth of its land to form this new country called Pashtunistan ?

Because Pashtunistan, if it ever comes to fruition will encompasse both Afghanistan's Pashtun majority region as well as Pakistan's .

He meant as a province of Pakistan.

 

[haviZsultan]

How can you say that? we are the same people, if we accepted being part of Pakistan then why can't the rest. Just because their leaders have been misguiding them, doesn't mean we should just kick them out.

I am a staunch supporter of uniting all Pukhtun lands and i am against the durand line but as we are in majority both by land mass and population Afghanistan should merge into Pakistan. I look forward to the day when we all will be united once more.

Both views are right in their own... both the view of lar aw bar yaw Pashtun and the view that Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani pashtuns are forever divided. Though it might be beneficial that Afghanistan is merged with Pakistan due to the fact that it will reduce the influence of urdu speakers and punjabis there is also no proof that Afghan pashtuns actually want to be under Pakistan. What they promote is a view that all should be Afghan nationals and view the term Afghan as both national and ethnic. The word Afghan is used interchangeably with Pashtun and is thus a good blackmail tool for Afghan nationals who claim no Pashtun can ever be Pakistani

They view Khushal Khan Khattak as their patron saint and what he said in a time and age when he was at war with the Mughals as a statement of their views. KKK said that "slay anyone who says pashtun and afghan aren't one." Now this is history but modern Afghan nationals repeat it. They ignore the fact that Rehman Baba, Pir Roshan and even KKK's sons thrived in Mughal times as Pashtuns so history has also become a tool in the hands of Afghans. Mughals are to this day seen negatively by pashtuns despite having generals like Mahabbat Khan and rulers of Bengal who were pashtun.

Also the pashtun Afghan nationals want all Pashtuns to be in Afghanistan while viewing southern pashtuns as impure. They claim our pashtuns are urdu influenced. If so what are they, can't even speak pashto and communicate in Darri and Farsi.

In short Afghan nationals, when they talk about a unified pashtun state, they mean the break up of Pakistan, which is intolerable to a Pakistani pashtun, or any other Pakistani. When Pakistan talks about Afghan Pakistan union it talks about a larger Pakistani state. I don't think, without the use of force Pakistan and Afghanistan will ever be one.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Both views are right in their own... both the view of lar aw bar yaw Pashtun and the view that Afghan Pashtuns and Pakistani pashtuns are forever divided. Though it might be beneficial that Afghanistan is merged with Pakistan due to the fact that it will reduce the influence of urdu speakers and punjabis there is also no proof that Afghan pashtuns actually want to be under Pakistan. What they promote is a view that all should be Afghan nationals and view the term Afghan as both national and ethnic. The word Afghan is used interchangeably with Pashtun and is thus a good blackmail tool for Afghan nationals who claim no Pashtun can ever be Pakistani

They view Khushal Khan Khattak as their patron saint and what he said in a time and age when he was at war with the Mughals as a statement of their views. KKK said that "slay anyone who says pashtun and afghan aren't one." Now this is history but modern Afghan nationals repeat it. They ignore the fact that Rehman Baba, Pir Roshan and even KKK's sons thrived in Mughal times as Pashtuns so history has also become a tool in the hands of Afghans. Mughals are to this day seen negatively by pashtuns despite having generals like Mahabbat Khan and rulers of Bengal who were pashtun.

Also the pashtun Afghan nationals want all Pashtuns to be in Afghanistan while viewing southern pashtuns as impure. They claim our pashtuns are urdu influenced. If so what are they, can't even speak pashto and communicate in Darri and Farsi.

In short Afghan nationals, when they talk about a unified pashtun state, they mean the break up of Pakistan, which is intolerable to a Pakistani pashtun, or any other Pakistani. When Pakistan talks about Afghan Pakistan union it talks about a larger Pakistani state. I don't think, without the use of force Pakistan and Afghanistan will ever be one.

If you go back this thread i have said the same that we may want to unite pashtuns but not on the conditions the other one wants,

It took America a Civil war to understand that only white people doesn't mean americans. It took a world war for germans to understand only Germanic christians doesnt mean germans. I am afraid a reckoning will come one day, to make afghans understand pashtun doesn't not mean Afghan.

 

[haviZsultan]

If you go back this thread i have said the same that we may want to unite pashtuns but not on the conditions the other one wants,

It took America a Civil war to understand that only white people doesn't mean americans. It took a world war for germans to understand only Germanic christians doesnt mean germans. I am afraid a reckoning will come one day, to make afghans understand pashtun doesn't not mean Afghan.

I agree with you completely brother. I fail to understand what makes Afghan Pashtuns feel they are better pashtuns than our people? If we speak urdu they speak farsi, if they claim pashtun history we have a larger pashtun population as well as being the owners of Peshawar and Multan both places where many pashtun poets, leaders, philosophers and historians were born. The argument of Afghan pashtuns is very hollow, especially when 70%+ of their army is made up of non pashtuns despite pashtuns making up 42% of the total population. It boggles my mind really the hatred displayed by Afghan nationals against Pakistan.

They haven't accepted non pashtuns as citizens and want us to do the same.It is unfair and weak thinking. They also claim Pakistan has no history. But in reality our history is not just pastun history of the Durannis, Suris and Lodhis. It is also the history of Talpurs, Mir Chakar and Laila/Majnun Bulleh Shah because we as a state are a federation of various ethnic groups, not just punjabis or pashtuns. This makes our history much more vast, and greater than the history Afghan nationals claim to have. Also how can the smaller population claim to be the larger inheritor of history than the larger population.

I am glad someone presented the Pakistani perspective over the durand line here. Its much needed. Keep posting Asfandyar.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

I agree with you completely brother. I fail to understand what makes Afghan Pashtuns feel they are better pashtuns than our people? If we speak urdu they speak farsi, if they claim pashtun history we have a larger pashtun population as well as being the owners of Peshawar and Multan both places where many pashtun poets, leaders, philosophers and historians were born. The argument of Afghan pashtuns is very hollow, especially when 70%+ of their army is made up of non pashtuns despite pashtuns making up 42% of the total population. It boggles my mind really the hatred displayed by Afghan nationals against Pakistan.

They haven't accepted non pashtuns as citizens and want us to do the same.It is unfair and weak thinking. They also claim Pakistan has no history. But in reality our history is not just pastun history of the Durannis, Suris and Lodhis. It is also the history of Talpurs, Mir Chakar and Laila/Majnun Bulleh Shah because we as a state are a federation of various ethnic groups, not just punjabis or pashtuns. This makes our history much more vast, and greater than the history Afghan nationals claim to have. Also how can the smaller population claim to be the larger inheritor of history than the larger population.

I am glad someone presented the Pakistani perspective over the durand line here. Its much needed. Keep posting Asfandyar.

Agree completely on everything you said.

Btw 70% of their Army isnt made of Non Pashtuns, About 97% is.

https://twitter.com/x/status/802011222564601856

Original Source (vice)

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Can you also stop using the number zero in Maths because Indians came up with it?

P.S Loius Dupree is not Indian.

Sure.. But it seems you know know that the guy who actually invented "Zerp" was born,raised and taught in Taxila,Panjab,Pakistan.

if you wish so, it's your keyboard

[/QUOTE]

Lol.. Am I wrong bro?

I seriously doubt your ability to do that, You can hardly fight India on single front. How will you fight both Afghanistan and India, The reality is, Pakistan is 1/10th the size of India, where it really matters.

Yeah we can hardly fight India .. No wonder India keeps crying and we don't even give a shyt.... The afghans attack Border gate .. Hey killed and shamelessly even ask us to help their wounded..

Pakistan invading Afghanistan for strategic depth would rather ensure strategic encirclement of akistan.

Strategic depth = no anti Pak activities originating from afghan soil.

As of now Afghans are claiming parts of Pakistan, India does not support that. Because Durand line is British agreement, It is as valid/invalid as Macmohan line.

So what are you crying about?

I know this question wasn't addressed to me but let me be frank here. The northern boundry doesn't matter because Pashtuns of Afghanistan don't give a damn about it as there are no Pashtuns living beyond Oxus river.

Frankly it's the other way around .. The ruling elite of Afghanistan the northern alliance fellows don't give a damn even if you love or die... The amount of war crimes you have committed against eachother would put hitler to shame ..

And since there are more Pashtuns in Pak than your entire population .. I doubt they give a damn about you guys ... In Peshwar u are looked down upon .. Ur people called kabulis,majars, and much worse.

does not matter what Sir George saw and reported. i am expecting talks with in legal frame works. one can easily say all those member of jirgas were paid previous british malik and political agents picked by jinnah who wanted the status quo intact, because it benefited them. there was no central authority in FATA and no one can decide it's future. hence the accession unilateral and controversial.
even this is against the nature of pashtun, the tribal pashtun never submitter to any one authority, they did not submitted to ahmad shah or other barakzai or durrani king neither agreed on any one authoirty in their own tribe. the only person which had some kind of authority in Waziristan was Faqir IPI who fought against british and had thousand number of follower and armed militia, but he did not submitted to pakistan and called his land independent pashtunistan. this is one the record. if he was a part of the jirga then the accession will hold any water
by your yard stick Afghanistan can claim KP, since ANP slogan is of pashtunistan and loy afghanistan and they have a big chunk of followers and made governmnet in KP previously,

Homies ... The same people also butchered afghan troops .. And the same people are joining army in masses ....

Today the same people are going to Vader colleges in Waziristan,razmak and other parts of the country... Our FC (over 2.5 k troops come from the same belt... And so do many regulars .. I fact they are joining by the masses)...

look at you, baloch take that punishment on daily basis. lol
since your land is carved out of our land. which implies you are our child and we your father. this is simple analogy, look who is your father. don't go stupid with me or i have enough ingredients to boils the spoiled one. lul

My land is Pakistan... My father is a senior officer is the same evil military you are trying to malign ... Baloch have ruled the country... I have equal rights and opportunities in the country...

My lifestyle is better than yours by miles...

What do you have ? A war torn state ... Rules by war lords who massacred you in the 90s... Millions of your people are refugees in my country .. Hated and now hounded ... Foriegn armies rule you...

Your states accuses us of controlling you.. Haha .. What do you have to be proud off? Quetta my hometowns GDP is bigger than your capital... Your people here are into drugs and prostitition.. And yet you have the gal ?

My state can whip you back to Stone Age (which you are already living in).

the meaning from colonial era. it was easy for her majesty to call it border, but she can't because it's not

So what are you going to do ? Try another Torkham and get blown up.. And later beg Pakistan to even facilitate your wounded .. Shameless.

 

[.]

Wrote "Wakhan Corridor...An opportunity!" in 2015 from my first account (lost password to PDF ID + that email). Give it a read if you are interested

I also had a similar thread on the very wakhan corridor some 3 months back ,Thanks for sharing

there is a catch. By capturing Wakhan, Pakistan will be violating Afghan-British accord of 1893* about Durand line and some what legitimizing Afghan claim, at-least about Durand line that borders wakhan.

That's a legitimate concern but I think There's two ways of going about this and I think the latter is far productive.

1. You Capture it as a retaliatory effect if Afghanistan violates seize fire on the borders(You must give them Afghan and also US/Britain a warning based on Moral degree) that violation of seize fire will result in serious consequences(It also can be used against Indian/Afghan instigated border clashes),Everybody forgets the dead in a few weeks in Pakistan yet it is their families who carry the long lasting scars,Many of their sacrifices go in vain,We lost our soldiers and officers last year and that was when I also opened a similar thread urging to go in and annex wakhan corridor but ultimately we lack serious leadership in our country on both the military and Civil fronts.

I think a more tangible approach is not to annex anything at all .........but to make this whole badakshan province a trilateral autonomous region with special administrative rights mutually between Pakistan China and Afghanistan much to an extent like hong kong.

Might end up making it the next hong kong
Afghanistan is such a huge country putting it to some Good work will be great other than what is happening there today.

Maybe one day we'll see big buildings in this beautiful badakshan place but then again we don't have the leadership to do so (Not just in Pakistan but also Afghanistan )

Make it a multi-diverse state which would include investment from all surrounding neighbors,Make it a trade hub.
Trilateral decisions will be made based upon 2/3 votes between them if this succeeds you can go ahead and merge the other Afghan central Asian states.
If you invest in the locals setup industries(For every age groups) and provide free internet to the next Generation,Terrorism will automatically be solved in Afghanistan.
If terrorism is solved in Afghanistan then we won't have a war-torn neighbor but a prosperous and civilized Afghanistan that is controlled by 3 important countries.

@save_ghenda @CHACHA"G"

 

[Husnainshah]

Are you sure?

Ever since day one; Afghanistan has been hostile towards Pakistan. They have launched many incursions, supported many insurgencies and have tried to undermine Pakistan on the international stage at every opportunity they receive. Even during the wars with India, those two-faced cowards mobilized their armies on the border to divert forces our forces from the Indian Front. Meanwhile Pakistan has shown nothing but open & supportive arms till recent times.

Pakistan has never been interested in 'ruling' over Afghanistan; it's only some naive kids pushing for a merger or invasion. It serves in the interest of no country in absorbing a country thats economy is built on drugs and aid, that has one of the most impoverished population and is rampant in violence and crime. Afghanistan can rot by itself, we will not allow it to take down Pakistan with them. There is a reason why Pakistan is building multi-layered walls on the border.

And why do you think Pakistan supports Afghanistan in spite of all those adventures? Matter of fact, far as I can recall, Afghan adventures in this present day Pak date back to Ahmed Shah Abdali; Might even pre-date Abdali but that's as far as I know.

Pakistan has always been interested in ruling over Afghanistan, only not directly. Matter of fact, Pakistan is one of The biggest reasons Abdullah Abdullah isn't incharge of Afghanistan and that is precisely the kind of influence I'm talking.

And to the guys barking above, I'm neither an Indian, Muhajir nor a MQM supporter/voter. I'll tell you what I am though, I'm not a hypocrite.

 

[haviZsultan]

Agree completely on everything you said.

Btw 70% of their Army isnt made of Non Pashtuns, About 97% is.

https://twitter.com/x/status/802011222564601856

Original Source (vice)

There are different statistics. The 3% I have not heard before. But proves even more, if true, that Pashtuns are marginalized in Afghanistan themselves. This itself casts a huge shadow on the image of Afghans who see themselves as Pashtun supremacists. When your own people communicate in parsi and are pushed out of major institutions how do you even dare to insult Pakistan where pashtun culture flourishes. We have problems but when things at home aren't in order in Afghanistan how can you dream of a pashtun superstate that trancends the current boundaries?

Anyway nice talking to you sir. You are a valuable addition to this site.

 

[Kabira]

And why do you think Pakistan supports Afghanistan in spite of all those adventures? Matter of fact, far as I can recall, Afghan adventures in this present day Pak date back to Ahmed Shah Abdali; Might even pre-date Abdali but that's as far as I know.

Pakistan has always been interested in ruling over Afghanistan, only not directly. Matter of fact, Pakistan is one of The biggest reasons Abdullah Abdullah isn't incharge of Afghanistan and that is precisely the kind of influence I'm talking.

And to the guys parking above, I'm neither a Muhajir nor a MQM supporter/voter. I'll tell you what I am though, I'm not a hypocrite.

Pakistan was interested in neutral Afghanistan who will not interfere in our internal affairs. If you are not hypocrite then admit the fact that they supported anti-state elements in Pakistan right after 1947 till 1979. Now they are not even in position to do anything in their own country after tit for tat response but that's different issue.

 

[Shapur]

Agree completely on everything you said.

Btw 70% of their Army isnt made of Non Pashtuns, About 97% is.

https://twitter.com/x/status/802011222564601856

Original Source (vice)

yara da domra dorogh hum kha shai ne wi

The ANA is now about 43 percent Pathan (Pashtun), 32 percent Tajik, 12 percent Hazara and 10 percent Uzbek, with the rest made up of smaller ethnic groups, which is approximately the percentages of these communities in the Afghan population.

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-afghan-national-army-in-2014

After the fall of the Taliban back in 2001, it is true that ANA was largely a Northern Alliance force but things have changed since then, many former Hizb e Islami, Taliban and their ilk are now serving in ANA. Once Taliban become part of the state apparatus the Pashtun representation will increase further. No one cares how much of the cannon fodder is Pashtun, it is the decision makers at the top who are important.

Look at this report from Pakistani newspaper Dawn.

Speaking in secret afterwards, the Afghan troops told AFP that because they are ethnic minorities in the country's Pashtun-heavy army, bribery is the only way they can make sure their Pashtun commander gives them a break.

“The commander tells us, 'search your pockets'. If somebody gives him money, he can take vacation. I don't have any money so I can't go,” said one soldier, a 20-year-old ethnic Hazara man.

“As a non-Pashtun, I'm cheap. I'm not as valuable to them (the army) as a Pashtun soldier,” added a Tajik, who like others requested anonymity for fear of retribution.

The situation is sapping morale among young recruits at a small base in the Musa Qala district of volatile Helmand province, a highly dangerous area and one of Afghanistan's main Taliban flashpoints.

This is just one of the issues dogging Afghanistan's 150,000-member national army, whose strength is key to the plan for international troops gradually to withdraw and hand responsibility for security to Afghan forces by 2014.

A report from respected NGO International Crisis Group in May said today's Afghan army was “incapable of fighting the insurgency on its own”, highlighting ethnic factionalism, illiteracy, drug addiction and desertion.

Its research found that Pashtuns and Tajiks – thought to make up 42 and 27 percent of all Afghans respectively – dominate the officer ranks, while Hazaras, Uzbeks and other groups remain under-represented at that level.

http://www.dawn.com/news/595844

I know people with a certain agenda want to portray the pashtuns of Afghanistan as victims and marginalised so they can legitimize their support for Taliban and make Afghanistan look a bad option for pashtuns but facts show otherwise.

It is simple that most of pashtun history belongs to Pakistan. Not only because most pashtun leaders like Ahmed Shah Durrani, Lodhis and others including poets like Rehman Baba and philosophers like Pir Roshan were born in Pakistan, or parts under us but also because about 70% of the Pashtun population is Pakistani and not only that, Pakistani by choice. With 30 million pashtuns Pakistan can stake a larger claim to Pashatun history than Afghanistan's 14 million.

Pashtun history belongs to all Pashtuns, all the figures you mentioned were born before the creation of Pakistan so how can they be Pakistani? Ahmad Shah Durrani's birth place is Herat Afghanistan to some scholars and Multan now in Pakistan according to others. Just because the kids of some British officer might have been born in India doesn't make the them Indian. Your logic is flawed. If you can claim Ahmad Shah Abdali as Pakistani for the mere fact that he was born in Multan which is now born in pakistan then why aren't the Afghan refugees given the same right?

What is certainly true is that biggest tribe of Pashtuns in Pakistan can trace their lineage back to areas in Afghanistan, the Yusufzais who are the largest pukhtun tribe migrated from Kandahar to Kabul then they were expelled by uzbek ruler from Kabul so they settled in Pakhtunkhwa. Most other tribes in KPK also trace their lineage to Afghanistan or at least Pashtun areas of Balochistan.

It is munafiqat of the highest order to split Pashtun history because of an imaginary line envisaged by the enemies of Pashtuns.

Then the Durand line agreement was signed by Abdur Rehman Khan and the British, an Afghan national monarch. He sacrificed the lar pashtun lands to save bar pashtuns, namely he saved Kandahar and Kabul by signing a treaty with the British. It was an insensitive act and pashtun history from that point on in 1983 diverged for ever. Pashtuns in Afghanistan were jealous and viewed the southern lands as theirs, dreaming of Durrani era dominance. Pakistani Pashtuns fought for Pakistan and joined the muslim league in great numbers to the extent that 3 of 4 now or never movement philosphers were pashtuns. Afghans are lost in a past that can never be the future. It is unfair, after 100+ years now that the pashtuns in Pakistan are richer, culturally stronger and powerful the Afghans want them back. Where the hell were they when Pakistani pashtuns came to ask for support of Afghanistan against the British or rebelled multiple times against them. Why have the Afghans not accepted the Durand line as the de facto border after so much?

Today the terrorism in Pakistan is exported from Afghanistan, 61, 62 saw raids from Afghanistan in Bajaur. So it is untrue that Afghanistan has beef with Pakistan over its Afghan policy since 1980's. It is in the Durand line.

Frankly your understanding to Pashtun history and tribal dynamics and politics is laughable.


@Braith
Please clarify a few things for this guy. He badly needs a history lesson

Frankly it's the other way around .. The ruling elite of Afghanistan the northern alliance fellows don't give a damn even if you love or die... The amount of war crimes you have committed against eachother would put hitler to shame ..

Northern Alliance have had their little honeymoon period with the US/NATO but the chickens have come home to roost. Read my posts above in reply to Bhittani, Pashtuns make of the elite of Army, Police, political elite, along with Tajiks. There are millions of Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan and I am one of them. The war crimes are exaggerated by certain people to make Afghanistan seem undesirable place for Pashtuns but I know the reality. You can't fool me. We live among Uzbeks and Tajiks, there is rivalry and tension due to limited resources but that's true in Pakistan and other countries as well. It's natural.