Advanced JF-17 versions coming, 10 years after service entry

[Ahmad Durrani]

... we are total at 82 Block-II + 2JF-17B=84 and remaining 16 Block-II will be produced to make it 100 and one JF-17B will remain in China so for PAF it will be 2 JF-17B and 98 Block-II. Please highlight if any mistake here.

There were 50 Block I and 32 Block II makes 82. One JF-17 crashed in Arabian Sea recently so subtract that one and that makes 81.

 

[volatile]

Real question remains will be 4++ Gen relevant post 2030/35 the main idea behind JF17 was to start some where ,know the technical know how to manufacture ,personally and logically numbers should be more like this for PAF

4th Gen /++
150 JF17 (25 years life span /MLU)
80-100 F16 (some F16 will retire around 2025)
--------------------------------------
230-250 (4++ Gen)

J31
36 (2025 onward)
36 (Block 2 with advance avionics)

Turkish Route
36 (2030 onward)
Parallel production with J31

local 5th/6th Gen
?
So i dont think and see JF17 numbers more than 150 ,its useless to keep on producing 4++ Gen platforms since all over the world will move to 5th Gen as main

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

J31
36 (2025 onward)
36 (Block 2 with advance avionics)

Turkish Route
36 (2030 onward)
Parallel production with J31

Probably 6 squadrans each of J-31 and TFX so 108 +108 = 216 stealth fighters and 250 JF-17s

 

[volatile]

Probably 6 squadrans each of J-31 and TFX so 108 +108 = 216 stealth fighters and 250 JF-17s

numbers for J31 and TFX cant be guaranteed but only thing is confirmed that we will not see more than 150 JF17 as it will be complacency at part of PAF

 

[Ahmad Durrani]

numbers for J31 and TFX cant be guaranteed but only thing is confirmed that we will not see more than 150 JF17 as it will be complacency at part of PAF

The additional 100 JF-17 of Block IV and V will complement our Stealth fighter. We cannot afford too many $120 million plus maintenance stealth fighter .

 

[Bratva]

In 1. You assume that putting off is based upon negligence and not simple because they don't have the funds available, that is a very broad and frankly baseless generalization
Be it the french avionics or otherwise

Just because you put a RFP out, does not mean you have funds right now; you assume economics to stay that way to buy stuff lest you default
And our reputation as a defaulting nation is well known

2. Perhaps you are not aware of how India's economy took off in the 90s , suggest you look at historical gdp growth figures for both countries before making that conclusion

3. You are making conclusive opinions on the basis that Pakistan has always been flush with funds
Even if we take the exaggerated economics of the Shaukat aziz era as true, they still paled in comparison to what is required as you suggest
Then you have overlooked the Zardari eras economic disaster

In all of these
You have still not presented a true case for making the "IAF mindset" which you still have not clarified beyond talking about sitting still till the 90s.. considering that both Pakistan & India's economies were relatively neck in neck until the IT boom; the IAF too did whatever it could faced with all the constraints(economic ,diplomatic, social) just as we did.

Please also state techincal basis of your doubts regarding link-17
I would like to know where my old team was
A: deficient in the design&implementation of ECCM capabilities
B: negligent in OPSEC in letting you know any details of the exact capabilities link-17 has

Will give you a detail reply tomorrow.

 

[Tank131]

Real question remains will be 4++ Gen relevant post 2030/35 the main idea behind JF17 was to start some where ,know the technical know how to manufacture ,personally and logically numbers should be more like this for PAF

4th Gen /++
150 JF17 (25 years life span /MLU)
80-100 F16 (some F16 will retire around 2025)
--------------------------------------
230-250 (4++ Gen)

J31
36 (2025 onward)
36 (Block 2 with advance avionics)

Turkish Route
36 (2030 onward)
Parallel production with J31

local 5th/6th Gen
?
So i dont think and see JF17 numbers more than 150 ,its useless to keep on producing 4++ Gen platforms since all over the world will move to 5th Gen as main

Paf will target having 200-250 as its goals for JF-17. The notion that 5th gen fighters will remove the need for the 4.5gen is already debunked. They simply cost too much at this point. That is why the USAF is also not getting rid of legacy fighters and even has talked about continuing to operate many until 2050.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25157/f-16-fighter-flying-in-2050/
These jets are far more cost effective. When combined with advanced passive targeting like stron IRST or EOTS they can even detect stealthy targets at stand off ranges. If u dont increase the number of JF-17, where are you going to fill the numbers of required combat aircraft from (estimates of need are north of 350, more likely close to 400 Frontline fighters needed)? PAF will need to start retiring early model F-16 by 2025 and those will need to all evetually be supplanted by both J-31 and advanced blocks of JF-17 (4/5).

As it stands, once tail choppers recieve their JF-17s the numbers in PAF will be ~84-86. PAF will get 2 JF-17B this year and The word was this year PAC will make 16-19 more JF-17. Unsure if these will be for PAF or will they be export (Myanmar and Nigeria). If im not mistaken, Myanmars Thunder are currently being produced for delivery (coded RUBY), which means some of the 2017 JF-17 will be for nigeria, like some for Myanmar amd the reset for PAF. 2018 Will see another 16-19 and in 2019, block 3 full scale production will start. By March, the first airframes will be 11-12 years old. With 3 squadrons in desperate need of replacement fighters (No 8 (M5), No15 (M3/5), No18 (F-7P)). 6 more squadrons are in relative need of replacement, with need for replacing ROSE mirages more urgently than F7PG given the PGs were new builds in 2001 and are only 15 years old and still have 10 year on their life span. (Sq No 8(rose1), No25/27 (Rose 2/3), and No 17/18/23 (F7PG)). Probably the No 18 sqn will be next conversion to JF-17 and this will likely be blk 2. The rest will be replaced by block 3 by 2025 (9 squadrons in 8 years) at which point i would start replacing early model F-16s (hopefully with J-31) and block 1(now convertrd to blk 2) with blk 3.

Give the blk 1 airframes an mlu of avionics and refurbished airframe to extend the life of the aircraft, and give 25 of these to PN to operate independently (with updated engine and AESA radar they would be more than a match for MIG-29Ks) and give the other 25 for export to a friendly nation(s) who needs better fighters at a cheap price (few million/frame or free but without blk 3 updates (ie kept in block 2 configuration but with structural refurbishment and new engine).

By 2035, I would imagine (provided development in Pakistan continues at its current pace), PAF would consist of
250 Block 3/4 JF-17
50 FC-31
40 F-16 Block 52+/F-16VT (By VT i mean to say, upgraded with Turkish AESA equivalent of SABR)

with more FC-31 newer block JF-17 (Block 4/5) coming online to replace F-16s.

 

[volatile]

The additional 100 JF-17 of Block IV and V will complement our Stealth fighter. We cannot afford too many $120 million plus maintenance stealth fighter .

J31 will not cost more once fully developed

Paf will target having 200-250 as its goals for JF-17. The notion that 5th gen fighters will remove the need for the 4.5gen is already debunked. They simply cost too much at this point. That is why the USAF is also not getting rid of legacy fighters and even has talked about continuing to operate many until 2050.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25157/f-16-fighter-flying-in-2050/
These jets are far more cost effective. When combined with advanced passive targeting like stron IRST or EOTS they can even detect stealthy targets at stand off ranges. If u dont increase the number of JF-17, where are you going to fill the numbers of required combat aircraft from (estimates of need are north of 350, more likely close to 400 Frontline fighters needed)? PAF will need to start retiring early model F-16 by 2025 and those will need to all evetually be supplanted by both J-31 and advanced blocks of JF-17 (4/5).

As it stands, once tail choppers recieve their JF-17s the numbers in PAF will be ~84-86. PAF will get 2 JF-17B this year and The word was this year PAC will make 16-19 more JF-17. Unsure if these will be for PAF or will they be export (Myanmar and Nigeria). If im not mistaken, Myanmars Thunder are currently being produced for delivery (coded RUBY), which means some of the 2017 JF-17 will be for nigeria, like some for Myanmar amd the reset for PAF. 2018 Will see another 16-19 and in 2019, block 3 full scale production will start. By March, the first airframes will be 11-12 years old. With 3 squadrons in desperate need of replacement fighters (No 8 (M5), No15 (M3/5), No18 (F-7P)). 6 more squadrons are in relative need of replacement, with need for replacing ROSE mirages more urgently than F7PG given the PGs were new builds in 2001 and are only 15 years old and still have 10 year on their life span. (Sq No 8(rose1), No25/27 (Rose 2/3), and No 17/18/23 (F7PG)). Probably the No 18 sqn will be next conversion to JF-17 and this will likely be blk 2. The rest will be replaced by block 3 by 2025 (9 squadrons in 8 years) at which point i would start replacing early model F-16s (hopefully with J-31) and block 1(now convertrd to blk 2) with blk 3.

Give the blk 1 airframes an mlu of avionics and refurbished airframe to extend the life of the aircraft, and give 25 of these to PN to operate independently (with updated engine and AESA radar they would be more than a match for MIG-29Ks) and give the other 25 for export to a friendly nation(s) who needs better fighters at a cheap price (few million/frame or free but without blk 3 updates (ie kept in block 2 configuration but with structural refurbishment and new engine).

By 2035, I would imagine (provided development in Pakistan continues at its current pace), PAF would consist of
250 Block 3/4 JF-17
50 FC-31
40 F-16 Block 52+/F-16VT (By VT i mean to say, upgraded with Turkish AESA equivalent of SABR)

with more FC-31 newer block JF-17 (Block 4/5) coming online to replace F-16s.

It will be complaceny as we cant match enemy in quantity but we should have superior quality product going more than 150 JF17 will be a mistake thats why there are never plans till date to induct more than 3 blocks remaining CAD diagrams suggests there will be another platform based on work carried out on jf17 perhaps from 4th block ver onward there will be stealthy feature single engine .

 

[Tank131]

J31 will not cost more once fully developed


It will be complaceny as we cant match enemy in quantity but we should have superior quality product going more than 150 JF17 will be a mistake thats why there are never plans till date to induct more than 3 blocks remaining CAD diagrams suggests there will be another platform based on work carried out on jf17 perhaps from 4th block ver onward there will be stealthy feature single engine .

If there are plans for a new platform then thats all well and good, but frankly, the JF17 took 10 years to come from the drawing board to the runway, and that was actually a record of any major fighter aircraft in history. If what you are saying is true, that beyond 150 JF-17 wont be procured, where is the replacement fighter? In 2019, block 3 production is currently slated to start. It will take 3 years to have 50 airframes at current production speeds, maybe down to 2 years as PAF stated that they can push production to 25/year (so lets say 5 years from today->2022). So then you have 150 JF-17, 86 F-16, and...what else. PAFs current fleet is roughly 350 fighters and you will need to replace an additional 114 fighters and yes, they will need to be 1:1 or the quantitative edge India already enjoys will be far out of hand. Even if you add 50 J-31, you are still woefully under the target of 350-400 fighters goal PAF needs to maintain minimum credible deterrence. PAF has itself said that they need to replace 190 fighters by 2020. So replace 100 with 50 more JF-17 (block 3) and 50 with J-31 and you are still 90 aircraft short.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1245714

If a new platform is in the offing, where is it? Why has there been no discussion about it? Is it J-31 or TFX or something all together different? JF-17 took 10 year to come to fruition in its very rushed, partially completed, first iteration. A more advanced, stealth aircraft would take at least that long if not 15 years, and we have not even heard rumbling of a successor. My suspicion is that PAF does not have any current plans of a new JV of a stealthy single engine aircraft as both TFX and J-31 are planned to be dual engine. PAF/PAC does not have the design capabilities to put forth a 5th gen aircraft having never designed an aircraft or build it from scratch. No, a JV would be required and there are currently no Single engine 5th Gen designs available for PAF to realistically join. The only way to make up that numbers game will be more JF-17, more J-31, more F-16 or acquiring TFX. More F-16 in siginificant numbers is unlikely, especially when considering, short of an AESA upgrade from Turkey along with more advanced ECM/ECCM/EW suits, it will be new acquisition of F-16A/Bs or even early block C/Ds will be woefully outmatched by M2K5 and Mig-29s let alone MKI, Rafale, and GripenE/F-16IN and the new US administration is unlikely to provide/allow MLU for PAF, and certainly wont pay for it. Additionally, the older aiframes of F-16 in PAF will be approaching 40 years of age).TFX is on the drawing board and wont probably enter production until 2025/2030 at which point, Turkey would need to fill its own orders first.

Production capacity of JF-17 is sufficient enough to replace all remaining fighters and with the dramatic improvement in availability of electronics from AESA options from Italy, China, and maybe even Turkey in future, to 2 DRFM options (Italian Britecloud and Turkish EAD), Chinese options for passive detection (EOTS-89 and EORD-31), improved composite use and better engines (WS-13E and possibly a Turkish Variant of EJ200 in the future which they will acquire export rights to as part of TFX), the JF-17 will definitely have the potential to be a beast of an aircraft of the 4.5++ variety ala Gripen E/Rafale/Typhoon/Su35/F-16IN/Mig-35/J-10C, when it comes to electronics.

I respectfully disagree with you and don't see another option prior to 2030 as to what would lead to stopping production of the JF-17 at 150 units for PAF. I think the eventual number will be 200-250. Nothing else is available or affordable.

 

[The Eagle]

There were 50 Block I and 32 Block II makes 82. One JF-17 crashed in Arabian Sea recently so subtract that one and that makes 81.

Yes... I made a mistake over there... however, (another correction in my post)

50 Block-II will include 2 JF-17B.

 

[volatile]

If there are plans for a new platform then thats all well and good, but frankly, the JF17 took 10 years to come from the drawing board to the runway, and that was actually a record of any major fighter aircraft in history. If what you are saying is true, that beyond 150 JF-17 wont be procured, where is the replacement fighter? In 2019, block 3 production is currently slated to start. It will take 3 years to have 50 airframes at current production speeds, maybe down to 2 years as PAF stated that they can push production to 25/year (so lets say 5 years from today->2022). So then you have 150 JF-17, 86 F-16, and...what else. PAFs current fleet is roughly 350 fighters and you will need to replace an additional 114 fighters and yes, they will need to be 1:1 or the quantitative edge India already enjoys will be far out of hand. Even if you add 50 J-31, you are still woefully under the target of 350-400 fighters goal PAF needs to maintain minimum credible deterrence. PAF has itself said that they need to replace 190 fighters by 2020. So replace 100 with 50 more JF-17 (block 3) and 50 with J-31 and you are still 90 aircraft short.

Hi , My view points are based on simple logic era of 4th Gen is almost over and 4++ Gen will only be relevant with 5th Gen as bomb truck (See US ,Russian and Chinese doctrine) no light weight fighter can have relevancy as Net centric environment and advancement in SAM`s can take out easily these Light weight fighters .I respect your opinion but there is a way .

150 JF17 + 86 to 100 F16`s + F7PG 50 + Mirage 50 = 350 Strong fighters .

You have to look each and every type for replacements ,Now for your query related to next gen fighter ,PAF bosses have clarifies this many time and avionic city is enroute with fruitful results in 10-11 years by the time most of the F16 will be nearing retiring as well as 2007 inductees 1st block will be having last life .
JF17 is good platform because we have learn so many things with it and its our own baby we can do whatever we can do but real question remains how much relevancy 4++ Gen will be in 2025/2030 ? other than bomb truck for 5th Gen .

If a new platform is in the offing, where is it? Why has there been no discussion about it? Is it J-31 or TFX or something all together different? JF-17 took 10 year to come to fruition in its very rushed, partially completed, first iteration. A more advanced, stealth aircraft would take at least that long if not 15 years, and we have not even heard rumbling of a successor. My suspicion is that PAF does not have any current plans of a new JV of a stealthy single engine aircraft as both TFX and J-31 are planned to be dual engine. PAF/PAC does not have the design capabilities to put forth a 5th gen aircraft having never designed an aircraft or build it from scratch. No, a JV would be required and there are currently no Single engine 5th Gen designs available for PAF to realistically join. The only way to make up that numbers game will be more JF-17, more J-31, more F-16 or acquiring TFX. More F-16 in siginificant numbers is unlikely, especially when considering, short of an AESA upgrade from Turkey along with more advanced ECM/ECCM/EW suits, it will be new acquisition of F-16A/Bs or even early block C/Ds will be woefully outmatched by M2K5 and Mig-29s let alone MKI, Rafale, and GripenE/F-16IN and the new US administration is unlikely to provide/allow MLU for PAF, and certainly wont pay for it. Additionally, the older aiframes of F-16 in PAF will be approaching 40 years of age).TFX is on the drawing board and wont probably enter production until 2025/2030 at which point, Turkey would need to fill its own orders first.

As per our older brother @MastanKhan use to say our enemy is even more dumber than us its true ,your comments are full of passion but brother already PAF has given many statment for future programe my interest points are

"Answering a question regarding PAF's future procurements, ACM Sohail Aman stated that in addition to force multipliers, the PAF is looking to procure a 5th generation aircraft and that they are looking for it in both, east and west." and PAF has realised to build a platform you need whole eco system so considerable amount of investment in terms of human as well as technical area is underway to understand

Production capacity of JF-17 is sufficient enough to replace all remaining fighters and with the dramatic improvement in availability of electronics from AESA options from Italy, China, and maybe even Turkey in future, to 2 DRFM options (Italian Britecloud and Turkish EAD), Chinese options for passive detection (EOTS-89 and EORD-31), improved composite use and better engines (WS-13E and possibly a Turkish Variant of EJ200 in the future which they will acquire export rights to as part of TFX), the JF-17 will definitely have the potential to be a beast of an aircraft of the 4.5++ variety ala Gripen E/Rafale/Typhoon/Su35/F-16IN/Mig-35/J-10C, when it comes to electronics.

Please realise that all fighters in PAF have dedicated role and putting JF17 under all role is unfair as it will create "Cheehco ka maraba " some gentle man shared F35 and why its a failure by F16 designer is a classical example . do realize that at the end of 2035 all JF17 have to be replaced so window is short specially after modern era development in avionics and CAD . Indians are being ripped off over Mirage 2000 upgrade / Mig 29 UPG / Jaguar upgrades as most of these assets we can take care since we will be fighting on ground in our territory and we are not matching 1 of 1 .

I respectfully disagree with you and don't see another option prior to 2030 as to what would lead to stopping production of the JF-17 at 150 units for PAF. I think the eventual number will be 200-250. Nothing else is available or affordable.

Brother there is no issue in this we all have opinion and i admire your way points but IMO (can be wrong) it doesn't make sense to push for 4th Gen fighter to 150+ at any given day i will take 150 AESA /IRST /HOBS ,Link 17 net centric JF17 over 100 JF17 with pulse doppler and 100 AESA (may be) we need to build the ecosystem and development for 25-30 years for what we have produced

 

[Tank131]

@volatile. With due respect: PAF bosses have said 250+ JF-17
http://www.dawn.com/news/1315117/16-new-jf-17-thunder-jets-added-to-paf-14-squadron

Now to your points.
1. Time of the 4th Gen fighter is nearing end: That is partially true and partially untrue. The role of the 4.5++ fighter is still very relevant. The USAF is planning on continuing legacy F-15s/F-18s/F-16s until 2050. That is a good 30+ more years. The spear tip of most modern airforces will change to the 5th gen to be sure, and I am not at all advocating that the 4.5Gen will be prime, but they will form the back bone of most airforces for the forseeable future. If that was not the case, the US would be phasing them out, which is not the case. Rather we have continued to upgrade them and are considering putting our F-16 fleet the SLEP and upgrading them with SABR AESA to F-16V. As for 4th gen fighters only serving as bomb trucks, it has been shown that modern 4th Gen fighters may soon be able to take on 5th gen fighters on better (though not equal) footing using passive targeting methods like IRST and EOTS. China's EOTS has been stated to be able to track B-2 Spirit from 150km away and F-22A from 110km away. So even in the A2A theater, they will be relevant even against the most advanced fighters (5th gen)
Regarding SELP: http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...in-looks-upgrade-500--service-f-16s/87021372/

Regarding AESA for USAF: https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/air-force-pursuing-limited-competition-f-16-aesa-radar-upgrade

USAF spending $12billion to upgrade F-15s which will be COMPLETED BY 2030 (meaning they expect over 500 F-15 to serve well beyond this timeframe). https://defence.pk/threads/advanced...fter-service-entry.477706/page-7#post-9211737

In addition to the USAF/USN which are unarguably the most powerful and wealthy air forces in the world, RAF, RuAF, Armée de l'air, Luftwaffe, PLAAF, IDFAF, IAF all are planning to utilize 4 and 4.5 gen for many more years with some (RuAF, PLAAF, IAF and Armée de l'air will continue to add 4.5Gen fighters as may some of the others).

2. As for F-7PG and Mirage (even the ROSE I) being part of a strong airforce, that is just not true. They are no longer relevant in the modern air warfare, especially not in the Indo-Pak theater with is rapidly advancing. They also will not be airworthy much longer and should (as planned) be replaced by the JF-17.

3.

You have to look each and every type for replacements ,Now for your query related to next gen fighter ,PAF bosses have clarifies this many time and avionic city is enroute with fruitful results in 10-11 years by the time most of the F16 will be nearing retiring as well as 2007 inductees 1st block will be having last life .
JF17 is good platform because we have learn so many things with it and its our own baby we can do whatever we can do but real question remains how much relevancy 4++ Gen will be in 2025/2030 ? other than bomb truck for 5th Gen .

The avionic city may contribute to the next gen fighters of PAF, but that doesnt mean that Pakistan will be able to design its own fighter from start to finish. Firstly, Pakistan has no known capabilities of designing an aircraft, has no history of designing airborne radars, has no history of designing turbofan engines. That is not to say it wont be able to do so in the future, but that in order to do so in the time frame you suggesting, the city should have been in operation and working at many years ago. Instead the first major aeronautic institute in Pakistan was inaugurated 5 years ago.

"Answering a question regarding PAF's future procurements, ACM Sohail Aman stated that in addition to force multipliers, the PAF is looking to procure a 5th generation aircraft and that they are looking for it in both, east and west." and PAF has realised to build a platform you need whole eco system so considerable amount of investment in terms of human as well as technical area is underway to understand

Again, this doesnt mean that PAF will design their own fighter but would be able to contribute to fighter systems. It doesnt mean they wont. But if we are looking at this realistically, PAF is NOT yet set up to design its own fighter, meaning whatever comes of the avionic city, it will likely find its way onto the PAF versions of a 5th gen fighter.

4.

Please realise that all fighters in PAF have dedicated role and putting JF17 under all role is unfair as it will create "Cheehco ka maraba " some gentle man shared F35 and why its a failure by F16 designer is a classical example . do realize that at the end of 2035 all JF17 have to be replaced so window is short specially after modern era development in avionics and CAD

All fighters having dedicated roles in PAF is one of the major problems. Having a different aircraft for each unique role is foolish and harmful from a cost/maintenance and logistic perspective. The exact point of a MULTIROLE fighter is that they can be used in ALL major roles. Just like Gripen, F-16, M2K, Mig-29, the JF-17 should be competent in CAP, CAS, Interception and Air Superiority Roles. It is not "UNFAIR" to put the JF-17 in these roles as it will be able to perform reasonably well in all the roles...that it what it was designed to do. Will it be a top flight Air Superiority or Strike fighter...no but it will be more the sufficient in each of them, especially when backed by a larger more capable fighter (J-31). It is the backbone, not the spear tip.

Now this is not to suggest the PAF shouldnt be looking at other options or that it shouldn't actively be developing next gen systems. On that we agree, and if possible to do it in the timeline you suggest, I'd be all for it, but we disagree on what timeline is realistic. I think for this, it will take another 25 years, but that is my opinion given what I see is the current state of affairs.

 

[khansaheeb]

Chinese military approaches technological ‘near-parity’ with NATO in air domain – think tank
Published time: 15 Feb, 2017 14:34
https://www.rt.com/news/377440-china-military-technology-parity/

FILE PHOTO A Chinese SU-27 fighter flies over the East China Sea © Defense Ministry of Japan / Reuters
Military Balance 2017) on the world’s armed forces on Tuesday. China’s growing capabilities and the danger they pose to Western dominance were the focus for IISS director John Chipman, who presented the assessment in London.

“We now judge that in some capability areas, particularly in the air domain, China appears to be reaching near-parity with the West. Also Beijing is now beginning to offer for export some of its modern military systems,” he told the audience.

One particular weapon the institute sees as a possible threat is the PL-10 short-range air-to-air missile, which “only a handful of leading airspace nations are able to develop,” according to Chipman.

Not only does it have superb homing capabilities and poses a threat to Western aircraft in a hypothetical armed conflict with China, Beijing also offers it for export, which would “complicate the operations of any Western air force” anywhere it proliferates, he said.

Another example is a long-range air-to-air missile that was noticed in a photo of a Chinese Su-27 derivative last year. The missile may be a two-stage weapon with a range of 300km, similar in capabilities to the creation of Russian defense producer Novator, known variously as the KS-172, K-100, and AAM-L.

“When it enters service, this new system will hold at risk large high-value targets like tankers and AWACS aircraft, platforms that traditionally would safely loiter outside the range of current air-to-air weapons,” Chipman warned.

He said that China’s continued military modernization and its new willingness to export domestically-designed advanced military systems mark China as “the single most important driver for the US defense deployments.”

“China’s military progress highlights that Western dominance in the field of advanced weapons systems can no longer be taken for granted,” Chipman warned. “An emerging threat for deployed Western forces is that with China looking to sell more abroad, they may confront more advanced military systems in more places, and operated by a broader range of adversaries.”

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Graphic: Top 15 defence budgets 2016 #MilitaryBalance | http://go.iiss.org/2kkLq66

12:18 PM - 14 Feb 2017

The IISS director also marked Russian defense modernization – particularly the recent use of Kalibr cruise missiles in its Syrian campaign – as a matter of concern.

Chipman said that in 2016, only two European NATO allies, Greece and Estonia, met the alliance target for defense spending, with Britain and Poland falling below the benchmark. The assessment was denied by the UK Defense Ministry, leading to a comparison of calculation methodologies used by NATO and the IISS respectively.

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Counting to two: analysing the NATO defence-spending target #MilitaryBalance http://go.iiss.org/2lKZC8J

9:53 AM - 14 Feb 2017

IISS considers European defense spending to be “modest” compared to its economic output.

“If all 20 European NATO countries were in 2016 to have met the 2 percent GDP target, their defense spending would have needed to rise by over 40 percent,” Chipman remarked.

According to IISS data, total global military spending fell by 0.4 percent in real terms from 2015 to 2016, largely due to reductions in the Middle East. The Chinese military budget in 2016 was $145 billion. The US remains the biggest defense spender, with a $604.5 billion budget last year.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

My comment that our enemy is " dumber "---is not relevant anymore---. That was for the past---. While they are moving in the 5th and 6th gears----we are still stuck in 1st and 2nd gear---.

While they are driving the 8 speed double clutch paddle shift race car---we are still stuck on the obsolete 4 speed manual transmission and trundling along in the 3rd and 4th gear.

The F7PG's and the Rose mirages are not relevant anymore---. They are a part of the pre-historic legacy---and should not account for much---.

Now---as for the 4---4.5 gen aircraft---. Looking at some major orders in the recent past---looks like---they will still be good for the next 40-50 years and more---for many a country---.

The operational costs of stealth 5th gen aircraft is astronomical.

Oh---by the way---no one ever answered to me---about this cost of flying the 5th gen aircraft by PAF in the future---.

If the Paf could not afford the M2K's or the Rafale---how could they afford flying a 5th gen---which has a very high maintenance cost---.

So---who is a LIAR over here---you guys or the air force?

 

[volatile]

@volatile. With due respect: PAF bosses have said 250+ JF-17
http://www.dawn.com/news/1315117/16-new-jf-17-thunder-jets-added-to-paf-14-squadron

The JF-17 is a capable platform, and is on its way to form the backbone of the PAF. It was reported that between 250 and 300 aircraft will be inducted into the air force in order to phase out the ageing fleet of some other aircraft models that are still in operation.
You know level of journalism in this country also perhaps Quwa is much more closer in guessing and factually convincing imagine in 2019 we will start to build (If all goes well) with AESA configuration start @ 16 per year it will take another 3-4 years so we are looking at 2023/2024 for induction of block 3 with expected life of 25 years these planes has to serve around 2050 . My analysis are based on these numbers that if we continue to build block 4 and block 5 with same design and added capabilities it will be totally irrelevant as we dont see legacy fighters after 2040 .For F16/F15/F18 all are 1970s design for them its bonus or life extension also payload wise all three can carry much more load then JF17 as concept for prolonging there life is based on concept of lower inner payload carried by F22/F35 and these birds can work as bomb trucks specially F15

Hi,

My comment that our enemy is " dumber "---is not relevant anymore---. That was for the past---. While they are moving in the 5th and 6th gears----we are still stuck in 1st and 2nd gear---.

While they are driving the 8 speed double clutch paddle shift race car---we are still stuck on the obsolete 4 speed manual transmission and trundling along in the 3rd and 4th gear.

The F7PG's and the Rose mirages are not relevant anymore---. They are a part of the pre-historic legacy---and should not account for much---.

Now---as for the 4---4.5 gen aircraft---. Looking at some major orders in the recent past---looks like---they will still be good for the next 40-50 years and more---for many a country---.

The operational costs of stealth 5th gen aircraft is astronomical.

Oh---by the way---no one ever answered to me---about this cost of flying the 5th gen aircraft---.

If the Paf could not afford the M2K's or the Rafale---how could they afford flying a 5th gen---which has a very high maintenance cost---.

So---who is a LIAR over here---you guys or the air force?

With respect your wisdom is always welcomed and facts you are mentioning cant be ignored ,