Accession of J&K : Excerpts from Manekshaw's Interview

[peep]

I read somewhere that there was nothing stopping her and that she was fooled by Bhutto. He argued that Pakistan will go into a chaos if he had to tell them that apart from BD even Kashmir was lost..

When did she care about pakistan ? All this is just hearsay and random crap spread by anti emergency brigade. Although I may not have proof against your claim but I do have the acumen to judge how she is in strategy from her handling of events leading to war (which is well documented). And I will only say that, there must have been an inside deal otherwise those 93000 pows wouldn't have been returned simply after that.

Btw, if she had her way we would have seen the '71 war in august itself rather than dec. She always wanted war with pakistan.

 

[SamantK]

When did she care about pakistan ? All this is just hearsay and random crap spread by anti emergency brigade. Although I may not have proof against your claim but I do have the acumen to judge how she is in strategy from her handling of events leading to war (which is well documented). And I will only say that, there must have been an inside deal otherwise those 93000 pows wouldn't have been returned simply after that.

Btw, if she had her way we would have seen the '71 war in august itself rather than dec. She always wanted war with pakistan.

pray tell me where would you keep the 90000 POWs at?

It was a problem for India too, they had to be dealt with soon...

 

[Android]

If Sardar Patel would have been our PM instead of Nehru situation in India would have been far different from what we see now

 

[sms]

I read some where in book ..some one stating about Nehru being first PM of India that "Gandhi finally chose glamor over capability"

 

[black_jack]

Negative. There was a pact between USSR and US that India wouldn't attack west pakistan. Maybe that's why the western borders including kashmir was never redrawn..

For an Iron Lady like her, she would have surely annexed that part as well if there wouldn't have been any binding. ( The latter part I am not sure though ).

We had 93000 POW , we captured 16279 sq.Km land of sindh . We could have forced Bhutto to solve the issue .

following links will clear ur view

Revisiting Shimla - Indian Express Mobile

The Hindu : Did Bhutto outwit Indira Gandhi?

she was a good leader but she did few mistakes ..

 

[peep]

We had 93000 POW , we captured 16279 sq.Km land of sindh . We could have forced Bhutto to solve the issue .

following links will clear ur view

Revisiting Shimla - Indian Express Mobile

The Hindu : Did Bhutto outwit Indira Gandhi?

she was a good leader but she did few mistakes ..

handling those 93000 Pow is a big deal but not that of a herculean task given that India already handled more than a million refugees from Bangladesh. And India did capture large swathes of sindh area but how do u know that USSR help was not conditional upon India not redrawing border on it's western frontier ?

 

[black_jack]

handling those 93000 Pow is a big deal but not that of a herculean task given that India already handled more than a million refugees from Bangladesh. And India did capture large swathes of sindh area but how do u know that USSR help was not conditional upon India not redrawing border on it's western frontier ?

give me some solid links about that and if your claim on redrawing border is true than y we didn't return area captured in kashmir ?
'71 was best chance to solve many the problem ,we missed it .

 

[peep]

give me some solid links about that and if your claim on redrawing border is true than y we didn't return area captured in kashmir ?
'71 was best chance to solve many the problem ,we missed it .

I read an article which mentioned of such a deal between USSR and US.. don't have links to back it up.. btw, if u are sure of the kashmir part which u just said I think u are right then.

 

[black_jack]

I read an article which mentioned of such a deal between USSR and US.. don't have links to back it up.. btw, if u are sure of the kashmir part which u just said I think u are right then.

USSR and USA didn't had any such agreement but there was mutual understanding that at the end of war Pakistan should not collapse .
On negotiation table we could have got kashmir , nobody would have objected that .

 

[Sashan]

We had 93000 POW , we captured 16279 sq.Km land of sindh . We could have forced Bhutto to solve the issue .

following links will clear ur view

Revisiting Shimla - Indian Express Mobile

The Hindu : Did Bhutto outwit Indira Gandhi?

she was a good leader but she did few mistakes ..

Indira made some epic moves prior to the war like signing the friendship treaty with USSR while allowing the Indian army to prepare for the war for few months. But she failed when the moment came.



Below is an article published 2 days back on the 40th anniversary of the Shimla Pact and Snippet from that.



Then bureaucrat MK Kaw, the author of 'An Outsider Everywhere' (Konark Publishers), has vivid memories of those fraught moments.

'The talks had collapsed and everyone had gone to sleep. Before midnight, Bhutto got the idea and went to Indira Gandhi's room. He fell at her feet and said he can't go home unless India released Pakistani prisoners of war,' recalls Kaw.

'He told Gandhi that he would be lynched if he went without an honourable pact and pleaded with her to show the way.'

Gandhi, according to Kaw, told him that she wanted the LoC to be converted into international border. If that was done in writing, Gandhi pledged to meet Bhutto's demands.

Kaw, assigned to look after the young Benazir Bhutto, rues that Gandhi fell for Bhutto's persuasive skills.

According to PN Dhar, the then secretary to Indira Gandhi, the Indian leader asked Bhutto: 'Is this the understanding on which to proceed?'

Bhutto replied: 'Absolutely! Aap mujh par bharosa keejiye (trust me).'

He never kept his word, and refused to have any written records of these conversations.



Indo-Pak Shimla Agreement: 40 years later - India News - IBNLive

 

[IND151]

an informative thread

 

[IND151]

handling those 93000 Pow is a big deal but not that of a herculean task given that India already handled more than a million refugees from Bangladesh. And India did capture large swathes of sindh area but how do u know that USSR help was not conditional upon India not redrawing border on it's western frontier ?

10 million not million

 

[SamantK]

handling those 93000 Pow is a big deal but not that of a herculean task given that India already handled more than a million refugees from Bangladesh. And India did capture large swathes of sindh area but how do u know that USSR help was not conditional upon India not redrawing border on it's western frontier ?

I'm sorry you do not understand the scenario, those refugees was the foremost reason India went to war - it could not support so many of them.
Secondly, 93000 were not simple civilians or refugees, they had to be kept according to jeneva convention which has its own challenges.. The situation had to be resolved, the leverage to be used was not used - she was a human and despite her braveness did some some mistakes, also she was the architect of India's descend to dictatorship if you know about it.

 

[Sashan]

I'm sorry you do not understand the scenario, those refugees was the foremost reason India went to war - it could not support so many of them.
Secondly, 93000 were not simple civilians or refugees, they had to be kept according to jeneva convention which has its own challenges.. The situation had to be resolved, the leverage to be used was not used - she was a human and despite her braveness did some some mistakes, also she was the architect of India's descend to dictatorship if you know about it.

I disagree that feeding 93,000 would have been difficult especially looking at the benefit what we would have gained. Even if that being the case, what prevented India to keep 5000 of them as a leverage and release the rest?

 

[SamantK]

I disagree that feeding 93,000 would have been difficult especially looking at the benefit what we would have gained. Even if that being the case, what prevented India to keep 5000 of them as a leverage and release the rest?

dude what I meant was that it was difficult to maintain them for long... Not that we couldnt do, it would be very difficult...