A young prince is reimagining Saudi Arabia. Can he make his vision come true?

[Saif al-Arab]

I agree to the allowances part and the wasted Billions to satisfy some egos, but a constitutional monarchy!? we never had had that experience in the Muslim world, at least not in the Arab world as far as I know.. that might lead to putsches (coups) and creation of republics, this is the only experience witnessed throughout the Arab world.. Although I do not agree with absolute(ist) monarchy, the best will be to loosen a bit of the absolute part of it.. but one has to stay prudent in doing so..Mostly in KSA, Jordan, Morocco and other GCC countries, because the alternative is thousands of time worst, it is either a military Junta governing, or some chaotic democratic wannabe government..

Look at Iraq pre-1958. It was a constitutional monarchy de jure but because of the weakness of the Iraqi state and due to the demographic makeup of Iraq (newly created states that have diverse populations, much so countries located in the Middle East in the past 100 years) it was almost always at odds with itself or others. Hence the many military coups. Or one group trying to dominate the other whether religious or ethnic.

KSA does not face those problems. Arabia is a rather peaceful part of the Middle East and has been that for at least the past 100 years (by large), excluding Yemen.

Look at Morocco. Modern-day Morocco and the reforms that the monarchy has underwent. Those are very good signs. Similarly Jordan although they face huge problems that we do not understand such as an enormous amount of refugees (compared to the population), Syria next door, a country with a rather small population and limited resources yet the stability it has is mostly down to its system of governance. If it was anything like the one seen in KSA the people would have rebelled ages ago.

I stand by with what I wrote in post 27. This is (quick thoughts) some of the changes that I want to see in the not too distant future or at least in my lifetime. I believe that such changes are not unrealistic or utopic. Not only that they are IMO very necessary as I see it. However I am afraid that the leaders do not view it this way (more concerned about securing their own thrown) because otherwise they would have tried to pursue reforms in this regard (toward such a system) much earlier and much more aggressively. There are no excuses unless they view us (the people and citizens) as sheep put to this world to live under their eternal rule.

This is no longer the Saudi Arabia of the 1930's.

This can't/should not go on for much longer and blind regime supporters should honestly ask themselves those questions and tell themselves if I and many others are not right?

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Or this (Only the chaos):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election,_2012

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood_in_post-Mubarak_electoral_politics_of_Egypt


No ! We are not ready yet, stable...



...

My country is... complicated

I can point to democratic reforms in Tunisia being a massive success.

Egypt is a big country with a lot of people and a lot of corruption with a lot of differing opinions.

 

[The SC]

Look at Iraq pre-1958. It was a constitutional monarchy de jure but because of the weakness of the Iraqi state and due to the demographic makeup of Iraq (newly created states that have diverse populations, more less countries located in the Middle East in the past 100 years) it was almost at odds with itself or others. Hence the many military coups. Or one group trying to dominate the other whether religious or ethnic.

KSA does not face those problems. Arabia is a rather peaceful part of the Middle East and has been that for at least the past 100 years (by large), excluding Yemen.

Look at Morocco. Modern-day Morocco and the reforms that the monarchy has underwent. Those are very good signs. Similarly Jordan although they face huge problems that we do not understand such as an enormous amount of refugees (compared to the population), Syria next door, a country with a rather small population and limited resources yet the stability it has is mostly down to its system of governance. If it was anything like the one seen in KSA the people would have rebelled ages ago.

I stand by with what I wrote in post 27. This is (quick thoughts) some of the changes that I want to see in the not too distant future or at least in my lifetime. I believe that such changes are not unrealistic or utopic. Not only that they are IMO very necessary as I see it. However I am afraid that the leaders do not view it this way (more concerned about securing their own thrown) because otherwise they would have tried to pursue reforms in this regard (toward such a system) much earlier and much more aggressively. There are no excuses unless they view us (the people and citizens) as sheep put to this world to live under their eternal rule.

This is no longer the Saudi Arabia of the 1930's.

This can't/should not go on for much longer.

Aren't Moroccan and Jordanian monarchies absolutists too?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Aren't Moroccan and Jordanian monarchies absolutists too?

Not quite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy

However of course they are not comparable to Western European constitutional monarchs but much less is necessary in the case of KSA.

May I refer to my post 27 in this thread: (the part relevant to this post)

"In general I find it more and more hard to defend the notion that certain families (current ruling families who again were/have been predated by 100's of other dynasties - the Arab world is home to the oldest dynasties in the world and first known rulers) can dictate the future of the countries/peoples that they rule without the peoples direct participation.

Political reforms (real ones) are absolutely necessary. First and foremost we need a real constitution. Secondly there should be an freely elected Shura Council (parliament) representing ordinary people (politicians chosen by the citizenry) and a Shura Council (call it the House of Lords) were members elected/chosen by the House of Saud sit. Thirdly a third Shura Council (made up by senior members from both chambers and independent members - highly qualified/well educated/experienced people in short, should make the final decision on important matters. This way all parties in the society will have a direct say.

Fourthly absolutism should end and instead a constitutional monarchy should emerge with an elected prime minister. The King should serve as a unifying figure that transcends politics and as a figure with certain veto powers and possibly the last say. However that last say should be monitored by independent bodies so this last say won't become harmful to the country/people.

The clergy should also reform and understand that what is modern-day KSA is the cradle of Islam and that what is modern-day KSA is the native home of almost all major Islamic sects and we have followers of all those sects to this very day in the different provinces and historical regions of KSA. Be it Sunnis of the Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki or Hanafi fiqh, Sufis, Shias (Twelver, Ismaili, Zaydi) etc."

Not only that let's make political parties legal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Saudi_Arabia

Of course it should not be forgotten that there are existing Majlis in almost every single corner of KSA where people live and that they work independently of the government (as do the clans/tribes but also together with the government) but such direct people participation should also be reflected in the actual Shoura Council (official parliament of the country) and in the form of voting.

 

[The SC]

My country is... complicated

I can point to democratic reforms in Tunisia being a massive success.

Egypt is a big country with a lot of people and a lot of corruption with a lot of differing opinions.

Brother, do you really believe that Tunisia went through new reforms, as it just got rid of long governing body and replaced it with a new fresh one.. Tunisia was the first Arab country to allow women to vote, Tunisia was the best open tourists destination from Europe for decades before these "reforms"..

 

[Hossiiee]

Thanks bro.

Morocco is doing alright as you wrote which is a very good thing. Many of your reforms post-Arab Spring have also been good and worked well. Now you just have to get the economy going and give the youth opportunities for employment so the best educated lot will not have to look for work abroad.

Supposedly it was his idea. I am actually not sure but others were probably involved as well. Both within KSA and outside of it. I think the idea is good but we will have to see how it will work in practice.


Nijmegen? I have visited the Netherlands (Amsterdam mainly) a couple of times and there are a lot of Moroccans but is there a strong Moroccan/Arab community in Nijmegen?[/QUOTE]


As far as I know there live about 350 - 400 thousand Moroccans in the Netherlands. They are spread throughout the country, the majority lives in the bigger cities tho.. Every big city in the Netherlands has a decent Moroccan community.. Even Nijmegen has a Moroccan community, even though its not as big as in Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Utrecht and Den Haag. I, myself, live in Eindhoven (5th biggest city) and there is quite a decent Moroccan community here as well. Other Arabs are mainly Afghans, Iraqis and Syrians but they are few in number. The Moroccans and Turkeys have mosques in most of the cities.
You are right about the economy part.. The most critical thing for Morocco is to get rid of the corruption in the government.. Morocco has a young population and a lot of potential, but sadly the best educated lot work abroad.. So there is a long way to go.. But we are gradually getting there. It really helps that a lot of Moroccans managed to settle in the western countries, I think in Europe alone there are more than 2 milion Moroccans. The Moroccan king is in my opinion the best king (unlike his father) we could have. He really cares for the country and I dont think there is any other king in the world who does so much for the country as he does. Hope he can fight the corruption in the government, cuz thats the biggest bottleneck for economic growth.