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A world without the West? Not yet -- and maybe not ever

anon45

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Another BRICS summit brings another round of angst in the West over the new world the rising powers seek to build without us. The combined weight of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa is indeed breathtaking. Each is subcontinental in scope; together they represent nearly every region; their combined GDPs may surpass those of the G7 within two decades; as a group they have contributed more to global growth over the past five years than the West; and between them they boast nearly half the world's population.

Moreover, the BRICS possess complementary advantages: China is a manufacturing superpower; India is the world's largest democracy, with a deeper well of human capital than any other; Russia is a potential "energy superpower," according to the U.S. National Intelligence Council; Brazil dominates a region lacking any great power competitor; and South Africa represents a continent that has grown faster than Asia over the past decade. An alliance among these behemoths could indeed change history in ways that diminish the West.

Except that nearly all of the BRICS covet a special relationship with the United States, have development aspirations that can only be achieved with Western technology and investment, have security concerns they do not want to put at risk through confrontation with Washington, and quietly understand that strategic and economic rivalries within their grouping may be more salient than the ties that bind them together.

There will be several ghosts in the room at the BRICS summit: America, which India, China, and Russia have identified as more important to their interests than other rising powers; Indonesia, whose demographic and economic weight gives it a stronger claim to membership than South Africa; and Mexico, whose dynamic economy is more integrated with the world than Brazil's and wonders who appointed a Portuguese-speaking nation to represent Latin America.

Ironically, it may be the cleavages within the BRICS club that more accurately hint at the future of the global order: tensions between China and Brazil on trade, between China and India on security, and between China and Russia on status. These issues highlight the continuing difficulty Beijing will have in staking its claim to global leadership. Such leadership requires followers, and every BRIC country is reluctant to become one.

As my GMF colleague Dan Kliman puts it: "Talk of a new international order anchored by the BRICS is just that - talk. The two largest emerging powers in BRICS - Brazil and India - desire modifications to the current order; they do not seek to scrap it. Without geopolitical or ideological mortar, the BRICS summit remains less than the sum of its parts."

The BRICS countries may posture, but their strategic interests by and large lie in working more closely with the West rather than forming an alternative block that seeks to overthrow the existing world order. Indeed, the largest of the BRICS tried just such a strategy in another era -- and failed. India's experiment with non-alignment during the Cold War was a recipe for keeping Indians poor and shutting their country out of premier global clubs like the U.N. Security Council. We know how Moscow's quest to mount a Soviet ideological and material challenge to the West ended. And China long ago abandoned its Maoist zeal for world revolution. The country's biggest trading partners today are the European Union and the United States, and its leaders understand that the nature of China's relationship with the United States will be the main external determinant of China's ability to become a truly global power.

Power is diffusing across the international system, and the BRICS grouping is a reflection of that. But we should not let the occasional rising-powers summit lead us to lose sight of the main reality of a more multipolar world -- that in the race for influence in the 21st century, the United States remains in pole position.

The squawking from certain haters does not change the truth of the matter.
 
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If Western Europe can decline, so can America.

It's not "BRICS" that will do it. It's mostly China and a bit of Russia. South Africa and India are still irrelevant. Brazil will become a real rival to the USA only after USA declines (because China will oust its influence from East Asia).
 
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^^^ Ridiculous. China is only gaining prosperity today because it has customers in the USA and the EU to buy its goods. Only if, and, when, "Asia" or "China" can transform its economies into domestically-oriented consumer based growth will it have a prayer of not needing the crutch of Western markets and demand. Good luck. It certainly won't happen in the next twenty years. Probably not ever given the demographic realities of the "one-child" policy.....
 
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The squawking from certain haters does not change the truth of the matter.

lol what?

First thing, no one wants a 'world without West'- Duhh...West is here to stay, even a 'world without Africa' aint possible.

But the economic balance of the world will shift to the East, because it always belonged there...

Westerners think that they are something special, where as they are just on top for like what? like 300 years or so? From 7th century to 18th century, "Islamic Civilization" was on top in trade, arts, science, medicine etc...but China and West were there...in some terms, better than Ummayad Empire, Ottoman Empire, rich Mughal Empire etc...but over-all, "Islamic Civilization" was leading...After 18th century, West-which was already rising-took over decisively etc...

Now you see the world today : China is "rising" and in some terms "superior" to West, but "over-all" West still has a lead...What makes you think that you'll retain this lead? :lol:

Asian Economies will surpass Western economies in coming decades (Inshallah!) ...but it doesn't mean we think that "West" will vanish..West would be there..but in long term, the "lead" belongs to the East, my friend.

Other civilizations have lead the world for way, way more longer period of times than "West" combined-yet Westerners are taught that they are somehow "special" cuz they are so great :haha:

BTW, take out U.S from "West" , and see what remains...debt ridden, slow, old economies for the most part...
 
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If Western Europe can decline, so can America.

It's not "BRICS" that will do it. It's mostly China and a bit of Russia. South Africa and India are still irrelevant. Brazil will become a real rival to the USA only after USA declines (because China will oust its influence from East Asia).

what happens if china declines even before they take off.. people revolting due to slow growth rate that comes about as decline of the west. educated chinese running away to declining west because they have stashed cash there and dont want to mix with billion villagers storming the cities. and CPC divinded into factions of princelings and non-princelings.?
 
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^^^ Ridiculous. China is only gaining prosperity today because it has customers in the USA and the EU to buy its goods. Only if, and, when, "Asia" or "China" can transform its economies into domestically-oriented consumer based growth will it have a prayer of not needing the crutch of Western markets and demand. Good luck. It certainly won't happen in the next twenty years. Probably not ever given the demographic realities of the "one-child" policy.....
:rofl: Keep deluding yourself. China's economy will overtake USA in nominal terms within 7-10 years. Our science and technology is already shattering world records. USA had a tough time handling economically powerful Japan in the late 80's. Tomorrow's China will be the size of 11x to 12x Japan -- USA stands no chance.


what happens if china declines even before they take off.. people revolting due to slow growth rate that comes about as decline of the west. educated chinese running away to declining west because they have stashed cash there and dont want to mix with billion villagers storming the cities. and CPC divinded into factions of princelings and non-princelings.?
:omghaha: China will never turn into India -- keep dreaming.
 
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:rofl: Keep deluding yourself. China's economy will overtake USA in nominal terms within 7-10 years. Our science and technology is already shattering world records. USA had a tough time handling economically powerful Japan in the late 80's. Tomorrow's China will be the size of 11x to 12x Japan -- USA stands no chance.


:omghaha: China will never turn into India -- keep dreaming.

agreed, it never can even if it tries hard.
 
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Just a bunch of terrified Americans and jealous Indians faced with China's bold rise to superpower status needing to delude themselves! :lol:
 
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americans, stop lying to yourselves and stop with these ridiculous arguements

in 50-100 years west will be Asia's *****

Historians will look at the 300-400 years of European dominance as an anomoly, nothing more. 11,000 of human civilization, 3-4 centuries of EU dominance. lol stop crying europe
 
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This is what you call a "straw man argument".

First, invent a stupid idea and pretend your opponent said it. Then, proceed to attack your own idea, which is easy since you came up with it in the first place.

China is thriving the most in the current world order, growing faster than anyone else by a significant margin, in this world order. It is high time some people started using their brains.

Our biggest customers are the EU and the USA. Use your brains, why would anyone want their biggest customers to vanish.
 
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in 50-100 years west will be Asia's *****

I still do not see a positive proof of this statement yet....

There are lots of variables for the west to grow economically, but the greatest has been three key figures. One is innovation and the other is entrepreneurship, with libertarian gov't in these particular manners.. Which none of the Asian communities have shown............
 
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In India those would be human corpses and people would be brushing their teeth right next to them.
 
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In India those would be human corpses and people would be brushing their teeth right next to them.

"would be".... keep waiting and fantasising for the "would be..".

But CPC isn't known to treat pigs and human being differently... so if you don't want to be in one of those "trucks", keep off Shangai.

And to avoid lung cancer.. avoid Beijing.

@AADHAAR: Requesting to edit your post.It's really sick:disagree:

sure.. dude.. but have you seen what pics hongwu and the rest posted of commonwealth games in delhi?
 
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"would be".... keep waiting and fantasising for the "would be..".

But CPC isn't known to treat pigs and human being differently... so if you don't want to be in one of those "trucks", keep off Shangai.

And to avoid lung cancer.. avoid Beijing.



sure.. dude.. but have you seen what pics hongwu and the rest posted of commonwealth games in delhi?


Enjoy the break.
 
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Just a bunch of terrified Americans and jealous Indians faced with China's bold rise to superpower status needing to delude themselves! :lol:
One day West can invest in another countries for production of their goods if most Chinese would think like you. But it seems Chinese people are smart to understand respect of their clients ;)

Europe is down. Not USA. With this way the Europeans go down, China will loose such market and their production will start to grow. Equilibrum, multipolarity.

Maybe for USA Apple is a good exemple. Apple is famous for showing the best products. But they produce in China. And since a few months they are not good to show any "new tech" (ipad 4, iphone 5). Concurrents especially Samsung are improving (Samsung sadly having no respect for creation and enjoys to copy the designs ) ..
it is a bit scarry for West i guess.

But a domination of China ... i hope it never be. If they would offer hope and dreams and good things to people? except product of goods. USA were not only an economy, USA offered more than this. they offered chance of anyone for success, and many things people from the world were dreaming to come in USA for an happy life.

Anyway the world didn't need a super super power ... i hope so
 
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