A Tripartite Agreement of $2.4 billion Kohala Hydropower Project under CPEC signed today

[The Accountant]

oh bhai why dont u read my post again
its all about water availability and where
and do u think we have no usage in summer months?
when water is available
btw usage is double in summer as compared to winter
where we can make we will only make there
these khyali projects of 15k mw and 40 maf r all bogus
u need to have 100 different kind of studies to confirm the pheasiblity of a project
wht we throw in ocean also pass through the whole coutries eco system where is should be utilized fully
like i prefer much more then making a dam we rather should make a huge canal
actually drawings r ready its called all pakistan canal divert 20 maf to balochistan see if it doesn’t surpass punjab in 10 years and make our country a food producing giant close to india
but priorities r mixed up
and fundings r non existent

I have read your post. They r not making any sense to me.

On the one hand u r saying there is not enough water in the system to dam in upstream and to release water into the ocean (without any support data) and now u r claiming to transfer 20 maf to balochistan without even dams.

These dams people wuoting here r already studied and feasibilities were prepared for.

Anyways i dont buy any of your basless argument that there is lesa water availablity to make dams upstream.

 

[Arsalan]

my point is if u want to make dams u have to take care of delta region too
for that we need to make a wall
we have water 90 days a year
and it’s availability varies from place to place
like at katzarah we barely receive 30 maf and u want a 40 maf dam there
then why we have tarbela bhasha dasu bunji thakot ?
maximum amount pf water available in pakistan isn’t at katzara its least
maximum is at kabul river confluence with indus 90maf and next point is kot mithan

and about katzara we have a planned project there named skardu dam
almost size of bhasha/tarbela
which in my opinion is maximum available water we can spare at that point specifically for run of river planned down the line 25000 mw almost
that can be a game changer

This is again a lot of stuff mixed up in this post but i will try to address it point by point.

1. If we make dam, we do not need a WALL to save the delta. Dam in fact will help ensure constant supply of water that can be fed to delta to save it. Understand that the delta area gets effected if water is not being fed to the sea via it, it is then that the sea water starts coming up and destroying the area. If you have dam you save water in summers and feed on it in winters. NO WALL REQUIRED THEN.
2. Selecting a dam site is not only about "where is maximum water available". Most important factor to be considered is the natural terrain assistance that you can get in making the dam. Consider the Three Gorges Dam of China. The Katzara is a similar location, a smaller man made barrier will help store millions of acre feet of water, less cost. Plus the gradient of the area ensure a huge Hydroelectricity potential WITHOUT effecting the Run of River potential a few Km down stream.
3. Expanding on point two, a dam up north mean it have least effect on potential of more smaller, medium or even larger dams as we move south. The Kot Mithan or Kabul-Indus confluence as you mentioned wont be effected by dam near Sakardu. That is a major added advantage.
4. With potential and option of more dams moving toward south we have increased flood control and more water storage options.

Dams are among the most important things to ensure constant water supply all year around, the thing required for economic development, flood control, agriculture and delta preservation.

 

[ali_raza]

This is again a lot of stuff mixed up in this post but i will try to address it point by point.

1. If we make dam, we do not need a WALL to save the delta. Dam in fact will help ensure constant supply of water that can be fed to delta to save it. Understand that the delta area gets effected if water is not being fed to the sea via it, it is then that the sea water starts coming up and destroying the area. If you have dam you save water in summers and feed on it in winters. NO WALL REQUIRED THEN.
2. Selecting a dam site is not only about "where is maximum water available". Most important factor to be considered is the natural terrain assistance that you can get in making the dam. Consider the Three Gorges Dam of China. The Katzara is a similar location, a smaller man made barrier will help store millions of acre feet of water, less cost. Plus the gradient of the area ensure a huge Hydroelectricity potential WITHOUT effecting the Run of River potential a few Km down stream.
3. Expanding on point two, a dam up north mean it have least effect on potential of more smaller, medium or even larger dams as we move south. The Kot Mithan or Kabul-Indus confluence as you mentioned wont be effected by dam near Sakardu. That is a major added advantage.
4. With potential and option of more dams moving toward south we have increased flood control and more water storage options.

Dams are among the most important things to ensure constant water supply all year around, the thing required for economic development, flood control, agriculture and delta preservation.

bhai understand this.
stopping all water supplies in katzara will make tarbela empty and bhasha useless and 16000 mw projects useless too.
wht we need is water to roam freely through that steep gradient making our whole electric supply
now coming back to ur water storage sceme
that is only feasible downstream where we already have made our electricity and now we need storage
thats why i said we need a dam near or about kalabagh site.(akhori)
then we need to throw that extra water to balochistan
and we still after a dam need a wall
u cant fight the sea incursion at all
even after throwing whole 215 maf into arabian sea cos we r 11 feet under sea anyway
heard about low country netherlands
and btw sindh barage is specifically designed for wht u saying storing water to throw into sea but that still half measures

I have read your post. They r not making any sense to me.

On the one hand u r saying there is not enough water in the system to dam in upstream and to release water into the ocean (without any support data) and now u r claiming to transfer 20 maf to balochistan without even dams.

These dams people wuoting here r already studied and feasibilities were prepared for.

Anyways i dont buy any of your basless argument that there is lesa water availablity to make dams upstream.

u r free to ur opinion i m to mine
we have free water and we have drought at some time
u keep reading my stuff and u will understand
no amount of dams can save us if we dont change our water wasting habits
good day

 

[The Accountant]

bhai understand this.
stopping all water supplies in katzara will make tarbela empty and bhasha useless and 16000 mw projects useless too.
wht we need is water to roam freely through that steep gradient making our whole electric supply
now coming back to ur water storage sceme
that is only feasible downstream where we already have made our electricity and now we need storage
thats why i said we need a dam near or about kalabagh site.(akhori)
then we need to throw that extra water to balochistan
and we still after a dam need a wall
u cant fight the sea incursion at all
even after throwing whole 215 maf into arabian sea cos we r 11 feet under sea anyway
heard about low country netherlands
and btw sindh barage is specifically designed for wht u saying storing water to throw into sea but that still half measures


u r free to ur opinion i m to mine
we have free water and we have drought at some time
u keep reading my stuff and u will understand
no amount of dams can save us if we dont change our water wasting habits
good day

Your posts clearly shows you lack basic understanding how a dam work. By introducing a dam upstream (katzara) will make tarbela empty and bhasha uselss is the biggest joke.

There is no point of discussing anything further with you. Apparently you have no understanding of water networks.

 

[ali_raza]

Your posts clearly shows you lack basic understanding how a dam work. By introducing a dam upstream (katzara) will make tarbela empty and bhasha uselss is the biggest joke.

There is no point of discussing anything further with you. Apparently you have no understanding of water networks.

good luck proving me wrong with an expert
kid

 

[Syed1.]

bhai understand this.
stopping all water supplies in katzara will make tarbela empty and bhasha useless and 16000 mw projects useless too.

Sir can you explain this statement and how you arrived at this conclusion, because I'm not sure if that is correct.


You do realize that dam is not like a balti that you fill up in 5 minutes. It would take several rainy seasons/ flood events to fill up a dam of the size of Katzara, all the while allowing steady flow to Tarbela/Basha to maintain their water levels and also ensure adequate water south of Kotri.

--------------------------------

You know why there is flooding in Pakistan in every monsoon season? Rains are mostly in the plains of Punjab and Sindh that don't have any major dams then why is flooding taking place? That's because the dams up north do not have sufficient storage capacity. They get filled to the brim during high summer flows and rainfall, therefore they have to release their waters. This means the rivers are already running at capacity then when rainfall in the plains make its way to the rivers they overflow their capacity and hence destroy towns and villages on their banks.

 

[ali_raza]

Sir can you explain this statement and how you arrived at this conclusion, because I'm not sure if that is correct.


You do realize that dam is not like a balti that you fill up in 5 minutes. It would take several rainy seasons/ flood events to fill up a dam of the size of Katzara, all the while allowing steady flow to Tarbela/Basha to maintain their water levels and also ensure adequate water south of Kotri.

--------------------------------

You know why there is flooding in Pakistan in every monsoon season? Rains are mostly in the plains of Punjab and Sindh that don't have any major dams then why is flooding taking place? That's because the dams up north do not have sufficient storage capacity. They get filled to the brim during high summer flows and rainfall, therefore they have to release their waters. This means the rivers are already running at capacity then when rainfall in the plains make its way to the rivers they overflow their capacity and hence destroy towns and villages on their banks.

rains happening where?
in skardu?
or u think rain water will flow up

 

[The Accountant]

Guys lets end this personal remarks.

Lets end this discussion here.

 

[Arsalan]

bhai understand this.
stopping all water supplies in katzara will make tarbela empty and bhasha useless and 16000 mw projects useless too.

Not true dear. This statement is nothing but a proof that you do not understand the basic workings of water systems and dams.
If anything, a dam upstream will help the downstream Tarbela and Basha dam, ensure steady water supply and extend life of these dams.

What we need is water to roam freely through that steep gradient making our whole electric supply

Bahi please understand this, Pakistan do not have evenly distributed rainfall or snow through out the year. We are a country of different weathers. Your "need is water to roam freely" is not possible throughout the year but only for a few months. And during the months when it is possible, it roam so freely that it drowns our villages and even cities due to massive flooding as you must be aware. Dams are to ensure EVEN supply of water all year around. You store the water when there is more than enough of it and then keep releasing it throughout the dry part of the year. That is how it is. Also there is one very basic thing you are missing. Electricity is a by-product of dams, it is not the sole reason we need dams for. Our main need is water storage for uninterrupted supply throughout the year. Electricity is an added benefit and then comes the flood control.

now coming back to ur water storage sceme
that is only feasible downstream where we already have made our electricity and now we need storage

You are mixing two things again. Water STORAGE is more feasible in the northern areas as:

• Natural terrain like gorges provide a cheaper solution for dam construction
• The impact on ground water level is minimal
• Minimal consumption of usable land.

Dams in the plains are more feasible for water distribution for agriculture via canals. These are two entirely different things.

A dam up north will actually be ensuring supply to a dam downstream from where we can then distribute it as well. Barrages can do the same thing if provided with a steady flow of water because if the dam up north.

thats why i said we need a dam near or about kalabagh site.(akhori)

Kalabagh is a political issue, aboslutely no chance for this getting resolved. However a dam around this area is required IN ADDITION to the ones planned upstream. These will be used to distribute water.

then we need to throw that extra water to balochistan

That canal is already part of the whole thing. Not being skipped or missed.

and we still after a dam need a wall

Nope you dont. Absolutely not.
Ensure steady flow into the sea and your problem is 80% resolved. A wall for the 20% remaining issue is not feasible or possible. How many countries have such walls to protect delta?

even after throwing whole 215 maf into arabian sea cos we r 11 feet under sea anyway

well that shows you dont know the basics of this concept sir as you could not have been more wrong.

heard about low country netherlands

You know that Netherlands is not the ONLY country that have major city next to sea which lies lower than sea level?

And btw sindh barage is specifically designed for wht u saying storing water to throw into sea but that still half measures

Yes. Sindh barage will help sort out the problem a bit but because of limited water resource available at that point we need more supply. Limited water is available at that point right now and even from that limited resource we are using bulk of it for irrigation and not feeding the sea.

Your posts clearly shows you lack basic understanding how a dam work. By introducing a dam upstream (katzara) will make tarbela empty and bhasha uselss is the biggest joke.

There is no point of discussing anything further with you. Apparently you have no understanding of water networks.

I am just about to give up myself.

Guys lets end this personal remarks.

Lets end this discussion here.

AGREED. Let us stick to topic. Any further discussion need to be about Kohala Hydro Power Project. Thank you

 

[ali_raza]

Not true dear. This statement is nothing but a proof that you do not understand the basic workings of water systems and dams.
If anything, a dam upstream will help the downstream Tarbela and Basha dam, ensure steady water supply and extend life of these dams.


Bahi please understand this, Pakistan do not have evenly distributed rainfall or snow through out the year. We are a country of different weathers. Your "need is water to roam freely" is not possible throughout the year but only for a few months. And during the months when it is possible, it roam so freely that it drowns our villages and even cities due to massive flooding as you must be aware. Dams are to ensure EVEN supply of water all year around. You store the water when there is more than enough of it and then keep releasing it throughout the dry part of the year. That is how it is. Also there is one very basic thing you are missing. Electricity is a by-product of dams, it is not the sole reason we need dams for. Our main need is water storage for uninterrupted supply throughout the year. Electricity is an added benefit and then comes the flood control.


You are mixing two things again. Water STORAGE is more feasible in the northern areas as:

• Natural terrain like gorges provide a cheaper solution for dam construction
• The impact on ground water level is minimal
• Minimal consumption of usable land.

Dams in the plains are more feasible for water distribution for agriculture via canals. These are two entirely different things.

A dam up north will actually be ensuring supply to a dam downstream from where we can then distribute it as well. Barrages can do the same thing if provided with a steady flow of water because if the dam up north.


Kalabagh is a political issue, aboslutely no chance for this getting resolved. However a dam around this area is required IN ADDITION to the ones planned upstream. These will be used to distribute water.


That canal is already part of the whole thing. Not being skipped or missed.


Nope you dont. Absolutely not.
Ensure steady flow into the sea and your problem is 80% resolved. A wall for the 20% remaining issue is not feasible or possible. How many countries have such walls to protect delta?


well that shows you dont know the basics of this concept sir as you could not have been more wrong.


You know that Netherlands is not the ONLY country that have major city next to sea which lies lower than sea level?


Yes. Sindh barage will help sort out the problem a bit but because of limited water resource available at that point we need more supply. Limited water is available at that point right now and even from that limited resource we are using bulk of it for irrigation and not feeding the sea.


I am just about to give up myself.



AGREED. Let us stick to topic. Any further discussion need to be about Kohala Hydro Power Project. Thank you

i might have mistri some points
but in theory i have well researched many aspects of indus water system
i m 100% sure that we do not have enough water to justify a mega huge dam maybe biggest in the world at katzarah. as we more down indus river increases in water volume
thats where we need those mutilpurpose dams
akhori is alternate to kalabagh with similar benefits
wall on indus delta will help reclaim 5 million acres of new land in creeks
and will stablize the eco system for good

 

[The Accountant]

i might have mistri some points
but in theory i have well researched many aspects of indus water system
i m 100% sure that we do not have enough water to justify a mega huge dam maybe biggest in the world at katzarah. as we more down indus river increases in water volume
thats where we need those mutilpurpose dams
akhori is alternate to kalabagh with similar benefits
wall on indus delta will help reclaim 5 million acres of new land in creeks
and will stablize the eco system for good

ENgineers of WAPDA who has spent whole life doing this seems to disagree with you.

The only hurdle with the dam is the submerging of skardu city which is not only an old and famous city but also an important defense base.

If we find some alternate relocation for these people and the base then there is no other problem with the dam specially with respect to storage.

 

[Arsalan]

i might have mistri some points
but in theory i have well researched many aspects of indus water system
i m 100% sure that we do not have enough water to justify a mega huge dam maybe biggest in the world at katzarah. as we more down indus river increases in water volume
thats where we need those mutilpurpose dams
akhori is alternate to kalabagh with similar benefits
wall on indus delta will help reclaim 5 million acres of new land in creeks
and will stablize the eco system for good

OK, will leave this post as i knew it will be hard for your to not respond. Despite all the points you raised in this post being wrong and explained in above posts by multiple users you are persisting with it without any explanation, facts or sensible reason. Like on one had you say that a dam up north will dry up Tarbela and in next you say that Indus gets bulk of it volume down from that area of Katzara. However this should be an end of it now. We need to get back to the topic please.

No more off-topic posts.

Back to Kohala Hydropower Project now.

ENgineers of WAPDA who has spent whole life doing this seems to disagree with you.

The only hurdle with the dam is the submerging of skardu city which is not only an old and famous city but also an important defense base.

If we find some alternate relocation for these people and the base then there is no other problem with the dam specially with respect to storage.

Agreed and true.

However please let us stop and get back to topic.

 

[ali_raza]

ENgineers of WAPDA who has spent whole life doing this seems to disagree with you.

The only hurdle with the dam is the submerging of skardu city which is not only an old and famous city but also an important defense base.

If we find some alternate relocation for these people and the base then there is no other problem with the dam specially with respect to storage.

who is ur wapda expert can u please share some links or proof
or else u might agree or disagree with me
but don’t bring experts from air proove it or apologize