A religious question

[Safriz]

It's very complex process in your eyes, but actually its very simple and unit change at a step executed in millions of years timespan, the process is trial and error! The God don't do error!

yes i can see how simple it is *cough*
you may be aware of "folding@home" project?
they had to use all the redundant computatipnal power of the world to simulate protein synthesis.....and thats just one process happening in living beings......
if it was all that simple..why so much computational power was needed to understand one tiny puny process?

 

[Mech]

There are thousands of stories of people killing dragons. They called them dragons because the name dinosaur was just invented in 1841. So of course they didn't call them dinosaurs before that; there was no such word. If you read history you'll read about Gilgamesh slaying a dragon. Beowulf slew a dragon; St. George slew a dragon. There are thousands of these stories of people killing dragons. Are they all just mythology? Why are there so many of them? And why are they so similar? Thai legends talk about dragon slayers. A Russian medallion shows a man slaying a dragon. A Bulgarian postage stamp shows a man killing a dragon. Many national heroes in these ancient older countries are dragon slayers.

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

You are talking of Singularity. The Big Bang originated from Singularity that is a point so small that all gravitation, space and time is rendered meaningless, centrifugal force would not exist in conditions of singularity. This was predicted in the theory of General Relativity but was subsequently challenged by Quantum Mechanics. The String Theory is trying to amalgam the two and come out with a combined solution which stands the test of both. it is basically work in progress.

LOL.....i don't think you ought to speak further about the string theory before you understand exactly what it is.

---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

The guys who's peddling the snake oil of ice stone almost ended up in jail for fraudulence, you know!

Here's the rebuttal.

Criticism of Dr. Hovind

I'm sure you'll find the rebuttal of the rebuttal if you look around. Using Google is simple enough.

 

[gubbi]

Ica Stones. Down in Peru, they found a human vertebrae with dinosaur bones, together. They found what came to be known as the Ica stones, with people riding dinosaurs, and people hunting dinosaurs. Over 50,000 of these stones have been found. Now these are over hundreds of years old.

And you believe that hoax?

This from Wikipedia:
Cabrera's fraudulent stones
Cabrera stated Basilio Uschuya, a local farmer, brought the stones to his attention after finding them in a cave (Uschuya was later arrested for selling tourists the stones, and told the police he made them himself).[1] In 1973 Uschuya confirmed that he had forged the stones during an interview with Erich von Däniken, copying the images from comic books, text books and magazines but later recanted that claim during an interview with a German journalist, saying that he had claimed they were a hoax to avoid imprisonment for selling archaeological artifacts. In 1977, during the BBC documentary Pathway to the Gods, Uschuya produced an Ica stone with a dentist's drill and claimed to have produced the patina by baking the stone in cow dung. The Ica stones achieved popular interest when Cabrera abandoned his medical career and opened a museum to feature several thousand of the stones in 1996.[1] That same year, another BBC documentary was released with a skeptical analysis of Cabrera's stones, and the newfound attention to the phenomenon prompted Peruvian authorities to arrest Uschuya, as Peruvian law prohibits the sales of archaeological discoveries. Uschuya recanted his claim that he had found them and instead admitted they were hoaxes, saying "Making these stones is easier than farming the land." He also said that he had not made all the stones. He was not punished, and continued to sell similar stones to tourists as trinkets.[2] The stones continued to be made and carved by other artists as forgeries of the original forgeries.[1]

Another source:
Today, people still believe in the authenticity of the stones despite the fact that this authenticity has been disproven. Problematically, the stones cannot be dated as no organic matter is found on them, nor can the strata where they were found be dated - the location of the cave has conveniently been kept a secret.

When one starts believing in fairy tales, one can go to any extent to convince oneself that indeed fairy tales are true.

 

[Safriz]

For the big bang/evolutionists....a question,

If a spinning object breaks apart in a frictionless environment (which the Big Bang would have been all the matter in the one dot), a spinning object breaking apart in a frictionless environment will send all the pieces off spinning the same direction because the outer part is moving faster than the inner part. Simple physics. I mean it is faster around the outside than it is the inside of the circle and so it maintains the same direction of spin.If the whole universe started like a swirling dot, [then there was a] Big Bang, shouldn’t everything be spinning the same way?

big bang itself is proof enough that there is a creator...
all theories trying to rxplain how universe came into being"all by it self" fail to explain how it started.
because they deny a creator...and no matter how hard they try.thry simply cannot explain the "zero point" the exact moment when creation began and how.
for muslims..we are told that it jappened withone divine order "kunn" (happen) and "fa yakoon" ( and it happened )
from nothing...an infinite seuence of creation started....big bang

 

[gubbi]

you may be aware of "folding@home" project?
they had to use all the redundant computatipnal power of the world to simulate protein synthesis.....and thats just one process happening in living beings......
if it was all that simple..why so much computational power was needed to understand one tiny puny process?

Do you even understand the complexity of protein folding and why it is so difficult to study that process? The fact that you refer to it as a "one tiny puny process" shows us that you have no understanding of the complexity of life's processes.
Believing in fairy tales is much easier, I can understand.

 

[Safriz]

Do you even understand the complexity of protein folding and why it is so difficult to study that process? The fact that you refer to it as a "one tiny puny process" shows us that you have no understanding of the complexity of life's processes.
Believing in fairy tales is much easier, I can understand.

so you admit its extremely complex process...but still insist that this and many other processes inside living being started hapoening by themselves and vintinue happening on their own...
you defy yourself.

 

[Kadamba]

If it were so important to follow the only path to salvation, why would Allah, the most beneficent and merciful, create all this diversity of color, thought, religion and country to begin with? After all, the many wonders of his creation, from galaxies down to microbes, all show a harmonious existence with all their diversity, so why not human beings, the epitome of his creation?

Before raising the above question;
Sir can you explain on what basis human beings are epitome (a person or thing that is a perfect example of a particular quality or type) of god's (if exists) creation ?

First of all if you think that All God's creations (except human beings) can live in harmony despite their diversity and human beings can't/less capable, then Human beings are not epitome (a person or thing that is a perfect example of a particular quality or type) of his creation.

Secondly, using which metric can we measure the perceived superiority of harmonious existance of other living beings and compare to that of Human beings ? On moral grounds ? on physical traits ? As far as I know Other life forms also indulge in crimes and wars based on differences in color, thought and country/region of dominance, etc just like human beings do; may be except religion and destruction of natural environment which are unique to human beings; but again those living beings lack logical and physical capability to indulge in those eactivities.

my 2 cents.

 

[Awesome]

My discussion was not based on Heaven's, but if you really read the religious books, there is this central theme of unconditional love from you to God. You are speaking of how God Loves you? There is this dedication that each religious books explains how God should be loved Uncoditional, in some case the God is Violent if not done so, like the old testament, and in other case there is loving God, like the new testament....

In terms of Hinduism the God becomes equal, where he is the controller of balance in the Universe.. In Buddhism, where God does not really exist in true reality, and true happiness is by killing all of the desires, the basic theme... I can also speak of Islam, but that would be pushing it in this forum....

Thanks...

In Islam, God's personality is not definable, such a pursuit is considered impossible as to figure that out would be a degree of divinity that Islam accords to none except Allah.

Other than that, there are certain attributes that are accorded to him due to his omnipotence which may be contradictory to us. As they say, God created everything including good and evil, you may wonder why god created evil, but you may never reach that answer. You may choose to be angry with God on that but its another exercise in futility since your anger does no harm to God.

The Quran mentions 99 attributes of Allah, which we call 99 names of Allah (apart from Allah). Where he is described as Ar-Rahman (Most Beneficient) and Ar-Raheem (most Merciful), he is also described as Al Jabbar (The Compeller) and Al Qahhar (The subduer).

He should be loved unconditionally, but its not like Allah is keeping score of all of your human shortcomings and waiting go violent on you. He's forgiving.

 

[gubbi]

so you admit its extremely complex process...but still insist that this and many other processes inside living being started hapoening by themselves and vintinue happening on their own...
you defy yourself.

For starters, if you can understand, then read this:
Protein folding problem

Secondly, complexity of a process does not make it an intelligent design. Prove it instead of picking holes in the theory of evolution. Conspiracy theorists and Creationists are the same kind of people - those that dont have the "stuff" (balls included) to come up with independent evidence but resort to simply trying to picking holes in existing theories supported by evidences.

And yes, complex processes evolved from simpler processes and will continue to evolve in to more complex or simpler processes, depending on the need - "independent of any intelligent design".

 

[Awesome]

I heard no God(s) ever cry for me when I was hurt, but sure enough, I could tell it pained my mother everytime. So I know no other love greater than that of a mother for her child.
Second, how the hell does one even 'quantify' love?

That's why faith is required of you, its called a belief system, not a fact-system.

Either you believe it, or you don't.

 

[Kadamba]

In Islam, God's personality is not definable, such a pursuit is considered impossible as to figure that out would be a degree of divinity that Islam accords to none except Allah.

Other than that, there are certain attributes that are accorded to him due to his omnipotence which may be contradictory to us. As they say, God created everything including good and evil, you may wonder why god created evil, but you may never reach that answer. You may choose to be angry with God on that but its another exercise in futility since your anger does no harm to God.

The Quran mentions 99 attributes of Allah, which we call 99 names of Allah (apart from Allah). Where he is described as Ar-Rahman (Most Beneficient) and Ar-Raheem (most Merciful), he is also described as Al Jabbar (The Compeller) and Al Qahhar (The subduer).

He should be loved unconditionally, but its not like Allah is keeping score of all of your human shortcomings and waiting go violent on you. He's forgiving.

Asim Bhai,
how can both (bolded part) be true at a time? Even though i agree with the underlined part.

 

[pmukherjee]

LOL.....i don't think you ought to speak further about the string theory before you understand exactly what it is.

Obviously you understand exactly what string theory exactly is. How come then you don't understand why a black hole does not throw out matter simply because it is spinning at high speed? Conditions of gravitational singularity existing in black holes are similar to that predicted in the big bang only on a much smaller scale. Anyway, I have no intention of engaging any further with a guy just throwing out random, meaningless and childish scenarios.

Regards.

 

[Safriz]

^^^its simple...we cannot understand Allah as an entity
but we have been told the characteristics of Allah.

 

[StandForInsaf]

science has much more to explore without any bias and with evidence.

 

[Safriz]

Obviously you understand exactly what string theory exactly is. How come then you don't understand why a black hole does not throw out matter simply because it is spinning at high speed? Conditions of gravitational singularity existing in black holes are similar to that predicted in the big bang only on a much smaller scale. Anyway, I have no intention of engaging any further with a guy just throwing out random, meaningless and childish scenarios.

Regards.

string theory is a work in progress and there are many bersions of it without much scientific proof..so lets put it aside.
none of what you say negates the existence of a divine being...in fact its more logical to beleive that somebodu up there made all this and looking after all this.....
you wont beleive me if i tell you a tooth pick factory came into existence on its own and is functioning on its own..
we are talking about extremely complex stuf...singularity and black holes which is definately more complex than a tooth pick factory.