A PREGNANT WOMAN FALLS YET ANOTHER VICTIM TO MEDICAL NEGLIGENCE IN PAKISTAN

[Gunsnroses]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

That if tomorrow 1 of them really dies from malpractice these 3 SUPER institutes will play a fake card out? Bravo!

This is a very valid point.

 

[VCheng]

The Husband was encouraged to a healthy discussion in front of entire panel. All of his claims were baseless. In fact eventually he realized that his claims were wrong.

Can we expect a similar media campaign to highlight this outcome to counter the baseless hysteria generated before?

 

[Yousufshaikh]

We get numerous trauma calls

Then why did it kill her to say just that to the husband instead of being more interested in asking him to pay for ICU and telling him that she will be "FINE" after 1 day there? If there is no treatment than how was ICU gonna make her fine?

Why did she take 10 hrs to get to the patient? Which country/ city was she coming from?

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

That if tomorrow 1 of them really dies from malpractice these 3 SUPER institutes will play a fake card out? Bravo!

I am very disappointed sure he threw baseles accusations like this :

WHICH mind you WAS NEVER IN MAJORITY of the articles against her!

Most of them demanded the 10 hr absence and the ignorant attitude of the doctor....I think this has been effectively brushed under the carpet...

1 - There is No perfect way to diagnose Amniotic fluid embolism.It's diagnosis is clinical and needs urgent resuscitation just like pulmonary embolism. The prognosis is bad but still there is a possibility of survival. Even if there is 1 % chance of survival, the patient deserves a perfect shot at it. That 1% will be 100% for at least 1 individual out of 100. Who told you that the family was counselled about patient going to get fine in 1 day ??? Yet again you are quoting a sentimental statement in which little to no truth exists. Dr Shahnaz herself did the counselling of the patient and broke the bad news to him. Kindly stop making ICU bed arrangement as a means to make money by institution. In a tertiary care hospital there are people lined up waiting for an ICU bed. This type of false practice may be practiced in some smaller clinics but not here.

2 - Indirectly YES. A doctor's intent is to do everything right for their patient, but despite all these measures, if you are going to blame him/her and institution in case of demise then I M sorry, no doctor would like to OWN such a patient. Tertiary care Hospitals in Karachi are NOT short of patients. There are occasions where it is difficult to find a single empty bed in a 700 bed hospital. Obviously every patient, irrespective of cast, religion deserves the best treatment. But expressing one's gratitude over their relative's demise in such manner would obviously lead to implications. Which are decided by boards, counsils etc and NOT me.

3 - Again , quoting a statement which is false, Dr shahnaz was informed of the case. She told the on-call SR to progress with labour. A NORMAL labour lasts up to 8-12 hours which is continously being monitered by frequent examination and CTG. There is documented Signed proof by husband when he was informed at 8 pm that labour is not progressing well, the baby is fine at the moment though, we should consider Elective C Section now. But he refused and said to continue with normal delivery as last 2 deliveries were also svd's. At 9 pm when the CTG showed Fetal hypoxia, was when the patient rushed to OT.
Considering that normal labour lasts up to 12 hours. A consultant is not going to stand there every minute of the process. In the entire world delivery is conducted by Midwives and is considered to be a normal process, with obstetrician informed in case any deviation occurs from a normal course. The consultant was well informed of each and every moment of case. She came at appropriate time and told the husband that if in the next hour, labour does not progress and there is risk to fetus then we will need to go for emergency C section. At this point in time it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict the possibility of Amniotic Fluid Embolism which occured intra-operatively. Obviously the family was not prepaired for it, and the outcome was this kind of hatred. Although i do agree that famliy should have been counselled about the rare condition and it's possibility in 0.1% of cases.

Dr Shanaz was effectively communicating with her team and the team conveyed each and every message to family. What was done for her is the standard treatment and is in NO WAY different from anywhere in the world. WHY in the world would she bother texting back the attendants ?? She is not going to distribute her number to 10000 of her patients. This usually results in calls for extortion money and blackmailing. She conveyed the message through Senior registrar and then personally when she felt the labour was not progressing as it should.

(Kindly note that a Senior Registrar is one who has completed their FCPS training and is authorized to practice as consultant INDEPENDANTLY by PMDC ). So even in her absence the patient was handled by another consultant who in no way did anything which was not required or justified. In a tertiary care hospital, expert facilities are available at all times. An SR is available 24 hours round the clock in each and every department.

From whatever you have heard and have been quoting so far is from the sentiments of people who have NO clue of the situation and NO medical knowledge.

Can we expect a similar media campaign to highlight this outcome to counter the baseless hysteria generated before?

Nope. this would not make great news. Going back on their own words is the last thing a media channel wants so do not expect a counter campaign. We are intelligent people and there has to be a difference between us and them.
However the case was discussed openly by a panel of doctors on HEALTH TV and the outcome was death attributed to a natural cause.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

This is very sad case of medical negligence

She preferred religion over her duty. This is pure negligence and hunger of roza forced her to stay in room. Even she left serious patient just for own iftar at home .
This incident was bound to happen.

Our people are too much blind in religious things.

Even 27th of Ramadan, terrorist attack on kamra is lesson for us when security men were busy in religious gathering in mosque and we paid price in the form of billions of dollars... with Losing strategic assets.

 

[forcetrip]

I am sorry but you would need to back up your claims by proof. These are all false claims. I work at LNH and would like to clarify all doubts related to these issues. Although I was NOT present at the time of this particular incident, but hearing the opposite side of story WITH some medical knowledge might help you understand the nature of problem and cause of death.

P.s - From what I have gathered so far, previous deliveries of that patient was also conducted by Dr Shahnaz. But no appraise. Suddenly she dies of Amniotic fluid embolism and hell breaks loose making it doctors fault. and making false accusations. Why do we all have to be so judgemental ?? Blindly passing negative comments and forwarding a doctors picture with 0% clue of what really happened. We don't even know how many live's she had saved before ?? Now what if YOUR mother or family member was defamed in such manner for something she did not do ?? But lets just do what we do easily sitting at home on our comfortable chair. JUDGE PEOPLE and DEFAME them..

Dr Shahnaz doesn't work at LNH as full time faculty. She only takes cases there of those patients who REQUEST to be delivered in LNH



It is circulating on facebook. I saw it on some one named Mariam Anwar's post. Anyhow you will find the reply. I hope.

Please make sure you read all my previous posts regarding this incident as well. My points were pretty much what you have added. I never said the stories I told you were from LNH. I have heard only decent things about LNH with the resources they have. The stories I mentioned are from the doctor / doctors from other lesser known hospitals whose name I fail to remember in Karachi.

 

[VCheng]

Nope. this would not make great news. Going back on their own words is the last thing a media channel wants so do not expect a counter campaign. We are intelligent people and there has to be a difference between us and them.
However the case was discussed openly by a panel of doctors on HEALTH TV and the outcome was death attributed to a natural cause.

End of this case, with the lesson that one-sided hysterics in the media and online is no way to deal with such unfortunate instances. We would do well to remember this for the next time.

 

[[Bregs]]

She preferred religion over her duty. This is pure negligence and hunger of roza forced her to stay in room. Even she left serious patient just for own iftar at home .
This incident was bound to happen.

Our people are too much blind in religious things.

Even 27th of Ramadan, terrorist attack on kamra is lesson for us when security men were busy in religious gathering in mosque and we paid price in the form of billions of dollars... with Losing strategic assets.

This is very peculiar situation now i personally feel for doctors, armed forces, fire service personnels the real religion is there duty and this is for them to sort out in there mind

 

[syedali73]

Not taking any names but 3 other large private tertiary care hospitals including AKU contacted LNH and has black listed this particular family.

Typical ghunda (doctor) gardi. First of all tolerate your loss considering it was from Allah; secondly, never ever blame the Doctor, and if you did, accept 'their' findings as words of gospel and be prepared to get black listed. Now if a member if this family needs medical intervention, they'll not be entertained and the loss of life resulting from this callous and totally unprofessional behavior (of black listing a family) will be on who? No doubt Doctors in Pakistan have turned into butchers with white coats. There remains no difference between a cheap trade union and medical doctors and their associations. We have seen similar callous behavior from the so-called 'young doctors' but it seems the 'seniors' are not too far behind. After all juniors learn the 'secrets of the trade' from their seniors. Pathetic.

 

[Yousufshaikh]

Typical ghunda (doctor) gardi. First of all tolerate your loss considering it was from Allah; secondly, never ever blame the Doctor, and if you did, accept 'their' findings as words of gospel and be prepared to get black listed. Now if a member if this family needs medical intervention, they'll not be entertained and the loss of life resulting from this callous and totally unprofessional behavior (of black listing a family) will be on who? No doubt Doctors in Pakistan have turned into butchers with white coats. There remains no difference between a cheap trade union and medical doctors and their associations. We have seen similar callous behavior from the so-called 'young doctors' but it seems the 'seniors' are not too far behind. After all juniors learn the 'secrets of the trade' from their seniors. Pathetic.

You do everything possible to save someone's life, sacrifice your personal, social life and yet again get humiliated in public, media, get threatened by death over something that was not under your control. You bring this patient again to same doctor. NO thanks. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. There is no shortage of doctors in Karachi. Kindly entertain some other this time. Position yourself in this situation. This is NOT gunda gardi. These are the only measures to protect oneself in a country where no law exists, uneducated people predominate, doctors get beaten , extortion money taken and media which is out of control publishing anything they like and people following them blindly.

There were better ways to deal with their grief. They could have requested an inquiry and dealth with it in a professional way. But they opted for a defaming campaign. You think that was the right thing to do ?? Doctors word are NOT a word of gospel which is why a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION exists. But if everyone agrees on a particular case then it is bound to be right in 90% of time.

Have anyone of you noticed a single reply back from their family after the initial post ?? None. Why ?? We all know why. Try to re-call a situation where a small girl was dead due to overdose of anesthesia in a hospital in Islamabad. This was inquired and those found guilty were prosecuted. So you cant say that doctors get away with anything. They do have accountability . People are now educated, they would question your diagnosis, request you to write a summary for a second opinion. So there is no hiding in these situations as long as you know that what you are doing is right .

 

[Gunsnroses]

You do everything possible to save someone's life, sacrifice your personal, social life and yet again get humiliated in public, media, get threatened by death over something that was not under your control. You bring this patient again to same doctor. NO thanks. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. There is no shortage of doctors in Karachi. Kindly entertain some other this time. Position yourself in this situation. This is NOT gunda gardi. These are the only measures to protect oneself in a country where no law exists, uneducated people predominate, doctors get beaten , extortion money taken and media which is out of control publishing anything they like and people following them blindly.

There were better ways to deal with their grief. They could have requested an inquiry and dealth with it in a professional way. But they opted for a defaming campaign. You think that was the right thing to do ?? Doctors word are NOT a word of gospel which is why a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION exists. But if everyone agrees on a particular case then it is bound to be right in 90% of time.

Have anyone of you noticed a single reply back from their family after the initial post ?? None. Why ?? We all know why. Try to re-call a situation where a small girl was dead due to overdose of anesthesia in a hospital in Islamabad. This was inquired and those found guilty were prosecuted. So you cant say that doctors get away with anything. They do have accountability . People are now educated, they would question your diagnosis, request you to write a summary for a second opinion. So there is no hiding in these situations as long as you know that what you are doing is right .

You have presented your case perfectly and as a medic I understand and assure you that what you are saying (if things went how you wrote) is correct and inline with the medical protocols. However, I would rather be skeptical of the so called "highly" educated and literate lot of our society so worry not about them.

 

[alimobin memon]

A sad news. The investigation must be made because this is one sided story. Maybe Dr was solely responsible or maybe not what if it was a mistake of someone else like nurse? or others in the surgery. yes family is right in their way but inside the hospital it must be taken for sure if this was negligence of one person or many. Dr's statement must be released on what is her saying too. May the victims rests in heaven ameen, may the right person be held responsible and punished for his/her wrong.

 

[Shamain]

Dr Shanaz was effectively communicating with her team and the team conveyed each and every message to family. What was done for her is the standard treatment and is in NO WAY different from anywhere in the world. WHY in the world would she bother texting back the attendants ?? She is not going to distribute her number to 10000 of her patients. This usually results in calls for extortion money and blackmailing. She conveyed the message through Senior registrar and then personally when she felt the labour was not progressing as it should.

(Kindly note that a Senior Registrar is one who has completed their FCPS training and is authorized to practice as consultant INDEPENDANTLY by PMDC ). So even in her absence the patient was handled by another consultant who in no way did anything which was not required or justified. In a tertiary care hospital, expert facilities are available at all times. An SR is available 24 hours round the clock in each and every department.

From whatever you have heard and have been quoting so far is from the sentiments of people who have NO clue of the situation and NO medical knowledge.

Nope. this would not make great news. Going back on their own words is the last thing a media channel wants so do not expect a counter campaign. We are intelligent people and there has to be a difference between us and them.
.

Seems like u joined the forum only to defend ur Dr shanaz. Btw the way u have been defending and portraying her , i got the feeling she is the best and the most responsible doctor in the entire world.

You dont sound honest. You really realy don't.

Fine the other story was an online shared one sided account, not corroborated with proofs , how abt the hospital disclosing the contents of investigation report. Why should i buy the disingenuous looking clarifications posted by a peron 'employed by the same hospital' fiercely defending the same doctor as some hardcore loyalist. You are never going to be neutral. Why on earth should i buy ur statements that after investigation reports were sent to pmdc the family backed off...?


Yesterday et published it.

Cases of medical negligence: Absence of bill widens trust deficit between patients, doctors - The Express Tribune

Typical ghunda (doctor) gardi. First of all tolerate your loss considering it was from Allah; secondly, never ever blame the Doctor, and if you did, accept 'their' findings as words of gospel and be prepared to get black listed. Now if a member if this family needs medical intervention, they'll not be entertained and the loss of life resulting from this callous and totally unprofessional behavior (of black listing a family) will be on who? No doubt Doctors in Pakistan have turned into butchers with white coats. There remains no difference between a cheap trade union and medical doctors and their associations. We have seen similar callous behavior from the so-called 'young doctors' but it seems the 'seniors' are not too far behind. After all juniors learn the 'secrets of the trade' from their seniors. Pathetic.

That's Pakistani doctors and heathcare system for ya. Yeah!

 

[tarrar]

There was a time when Pakistan had best civil pilots & Doctors in the world, now only corruption has made its way in to harm Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

A sad news. The investigation must be made because this is one sided story. Maybe Dr was solely responsible or maybe not what if it was a mistake of someone else like nurse? or others in the surgery. yes family is right in their way but inside the hospital it must be taken for sure if this was negligence of one person or many. Dr's statement must be released on what is her saying too. May the victims rests in heaven ameen, may the right person be held responsible and punished for his/her wrong.

It is important to note that for all the initial hysterics, once the findings were discussed with the bereaved family, not even an FIR was lodged. If there is any one still perceived to be at fault, why not lodge an FIR and start the formal legal process?

 

[VCheng]

Another potentially similar case?

Relatives ransack hospital after patient dies - thenews.com.pk

Relatives ransack hospital after patient dies
our correspondentTuesday, July 14, 2015
From Print Edition

GUJRANWALA: The relatives of a female patient ransacked the hospital after the lady doctors on duty at the emergency ward of DHQ Hospital allegedly kept ignoring her for hours, resulting in her death.

Amna Saba, 30, was a mother of four and a blood pressure patient. The husband and other family members had shifted Amna to the hospital after her blood had shot up. They repeatedly requested the doctors for attention but in vain. The doctors after a cursory look asked them to return her to the home, but the husband noticed that her condition was worsening; however, the doctors did not pay any heed.

As soon as Amna died, the family members staged a violent protest and started ransacking the ward. The medical superintendent (MS), it is said, first sent a host of sweepers to control the protesters and then came himself at scene but failed to do so.

It is said the MS has got registered a case against the protesters with the Civil Lines Police Station but took no action against the negligent doctors.The bereaved family left the hospital and vowed to file a criminal complaint against the doctors, while appealing the chief minister to order action against the culprit.