A new stealth corvette from France

[Mike_Brando]

Uhm, no. IN just started producing the domestic p28s, which is a more appropiate complement/replacement to Khukri's. As for replacing the Veer class, this new ship is likely 2x or 3x the displacement i.e. a far larger ship. Baynunah is already over 900 tons (2x larger) and the new ship is 20m longer and 4m wider. It is actually much like the Meko A100/A200

But sir the P-28 class doesn't carry any offensive anti-ship weapons like Klub-s ASM.It's basically an ASW warship.On the other hand this C-90 Sword ship carries 8 Exocet-II missiles which can pack a deadly punch in any situation.The Khukri class is basically a Missile corvette whose primary role is anti shipping but the main drawback here is that this class is armed with only 4 P-20M missiles which is totally obsolete in the current scenario.So don't you think it will a good decision to replace those obsolete Khukri class corvettes with this new design(they have already served the I.N. for more than 2 and a half decades)??

 

[Penguin]

But sir the P-28 class doesn't carry any offensive anti-ship weapons like Klub-s ASM.It's basically an ASW warship.On the other hand this C-90 Sword ship carries 8 Exocet-II missiles which can pack a deadly punch in any situation.The Khukri class is basically a Missile corvette whose primary role is anti shipping but the main drawback here is that this class is armed with only 4 P-20M missiles which is totally obsolete in the current scenario.So don't you think it will a good decision to replace those obsolete Khukri class corvettes with this new design(they have already served the I.N. for more than 2 and a half decades)??

As far as my understanging goes, the Kamorta class ships carry at least 2x2 torpedo tubes for heavyweight torpedoes forward of the stack. These torpedoes by themselves can be antiship weapons or at least dual purpose antiship/antusubmarine weapons, with warhead at least comparable in weight - though not range - to those of Klub antiship missiles. This is apart from any (lightweight?) antiship missile that can be carried by the ship's helicopter. Besides, there exist Russian encapsulated missiles weapons that can be launched by torpedo from a surface ship and IN possibly already operates those (SS-N-15 Starfish / RPK-2_Viyuga; SS-N-16 Stallion / RPK-6 Vodopad and RPK-7 Veter). So, just because there are no visible AShM launchers, that doesn't necessarily mean these ships are not armed with any AShM. One has to wonder what the reason is for the absence in these ships of e.g. canister launched Kh-35 Uran missiles, or vertically launched Klub or Brahmos missiles (I've implied at least 2-3 reasons here in this post).

The last 2 Veer class ships carry 4x4 Kh-35 Uran antiship missiles, just like the Khukri class follow-on's of the Kora class do. It would stand to reason to add those to the Khukri's during a MLU, or canister-launched (non-vertical) Brahmos missiles.. Both Kora and Khukri classes could benefit from MLU with some Barak 1 surface to air missiles to complement the manpads launchers carried. Or some ASW gear. They are really patrol vessels / fleet supplements.

A replacement for both the Veer and Abhay classes (Russian Tarantul and Pauk classes) would be a more coastal oriented ship that combines AShM and ASW weapons on a relatively small hull (between 500 and 1000 tons). E.g. the Israëli Saar S72 or Singapore's Victory class .

 

[Mike_Brando]

As far as my understanging goes, the Kamorta class ships carry at least 2x2 torpedo tubes for heavyweight torpedoes forward of the stack. These torpedoes by themselves can be antiship weapons or at least dual purpose antiship/antusubmarine weapons, with warhead at least comparable in weight - though not range - to those of Klub antiship missiles. This is apart from any (lightweight?) antiship missile that can be carried by the ship's helicopter. Besides, there exist Russian encapsulated missiles weapons that can be launched by torpedo from a surface ship and IN possibly already operates those (SS-N-15 Starfish / RPK-2_Viyuga; SS-N-16 Stallion / RPK-6 Vodopad and RPK-7 Veter). So, just because there are no visible AShM launchers, that doesn't necessarily mean these ships are not armed with any AShM. One has to wonder what the reason is for the absence in these ships of e.g. canister launched Kh-35 Uran missiles, or vertically launched Klub or Brahmos missiles (I've implied at least 2-3 reasons here in this post).

The last 2 Veer class ships carry 4x4 Kh-35 Uran antiship missiles, just like the Khukri class follow-on's of the Kora class do. It would stand to reason to add those to the Khukri's during a MLU, or canister-launched (non-vertical) Brahmos missiles.. Both Kora and Khukri classes could benefit from MLU with some Barak 1 surface to air missiles to complement the manpads launchers carried. Or some ASW gear. They are really patrol vessels / fleet supplements.

A replacement for both the Veer and Abhay classes (Russian Tarantul and Pauk classes) would be a more coastal oriented ship that combines AShM and ASW weapons on a relatively small hull (between 500 and 1000 tons). E.g. the Israëli Saar S72 or Singapore's Victory class .

Thank you so much sir for this elaborate explanation.You know many of the India members in this forum also wonder why didn't the I.N. installed KH-35 AShM in the Kamorta class as it would have given this ship a long range offensive Anti shipping capability.Although they do carry heavy weight torpedoes which can be used in anti-shipping operation but the disadvantage in this case is the short range of most of these heavy weight torpedoes.
The I.N. has already issued a R.F.I. to all Indian shipbuilding yards for 16 littoral A.S.W.crafts having a displacement of above 500 tonnes,they will replace the obsolete Abhay class corvettes in the near future.I think it's time for the I.N. to seriously consider the replacement of the 10 Veer class missile boats(barring the last 2 which are quite similar to the Kora class corvettes),so what would be the ideal replacement for the Veer class according to your opinion??

 

[Penguin]

Thank you so much sir for this elaborate explanation.You know many of the India members in this forum also wonder why didn't the I.N. installed KH-35 AShM in the Kamorta class as it would have given this ship a long range offensive Anti shipping capability.Although they do carry heavy weight torpedoes which can be used in anti-shipping operation but the disadvantage in this case is the short range of most of these heavy weight torpedoes.
The I.N. has already issued a R.F.I. to all Indian shipbuilding yards for 16 littoral A.S.W.crafts having a displacement of above 500 tonnes,they will replace the obsolete Abhay class corvettes in the near future.I think it's time for the I.N. to seriously consider the replacement of the 10 Veer class missile boats(barring the last 2 which are quite similar to the Kora class corvettes),so what would be the ideal replacement for the Veer class according to your opinion??

It is my feeling that those 16 littoral ASW craft will replace both Abhay and Veer class boats. On the whole, it would seem IN is taking ASW more serious than ASuW. But this is not illogical since these smaller, coastal vessel would operate undercover of IAF, which has air-to-surface missile capabilities, and coastal missile batteries. It is a different matter as far as fleet units (carrier escorts) are concerned, of course, as these would operate way farther out to sea (and can't rely that much on carrier aviation naval strike capabilities)

 

[Genesis]

looks cool, but one question, what is this? Is it suppose to be a combat ship like in a naval battle? A corvette cannot take on a battle group and it's weapons are not enough to actually support a battlegroup.

Is it for patrol? For that much cash, this ship brings the exact same to the table than a conventional ship does, in the sense a pirate ship or coast guard can't do anything anyways.

So while impressive, I fail to see the value of such a craft.

 

[AMDR]

what is this? Is it suppose to be a combat ship like in a naval battle? A corvette cannot take on a battle group and it's weapons are not enough to actually support a battlegroup.
Is it for patrol? For that much cash, this ship brings the exact same to the table than a conventional ship does, in the sense a pirate ship or coast guard can't do anything anyways.

Most modern corvettes are used, but not limited to, Anti-submarine warfare or coastal patrol. They may also carry short-medium range SAMs. Corvettes can also be as missile boats, and carry a large amount of anti-ship missiles like the Russian Taruntul-class
Tarantul-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aepsilons]

What a beautiful specter to behold. Congratulations to the French Navy !

 

[Mike_Brando]

Most modern corvettes are used, but not limited to, Anti-submarine warfare or coastal patrol. They may also carry short-medium range SAMs. Corvettes can also be as missile boats, and carry a large amount of anti-ship missiles like the Russian Taruntul-class
Tarantul-class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mate,the Tarantul class is basically an obsolete one because of the limited amount of AShM carrying capabilities of these crafts.The main AShM of the Tarantul class is the P-20M Stynx which itself is an obsolete weopon with a limited range and the Tarantul class can only carry 4 of them without any credible anti-air missiles other than the hand held Igla-E manpads.I know this because the Indian Navy operates a dozen of these missile boats.Abetter example of a modern corvette should rather be the Israeli built Sa'ar 4.5 Corvettes which can carry at least 8 Harpoons or 6 Gabriel AShMs along with 32 Barak-1 short range Anti-air missiles.

 

[Krate M]

Good looking ship yes.
But I don't know what is the big deal about ships and stealth.
Frontal aspects it is useful, but on side aspect it's value is overrated. I mean you are looking at a huge structure against the background of sea. How much are you going to hide? And the other thing that this kind of structure does is that it brings the centre of gravity lower causing the ship to roll more in rough seas. Not to mention the fact that bringing all the weapons inside increases the risk of damage in case of a hit.

 

[AMDR]

Mate,the Tarantul class is basically an obsolete one because of the limited amount of AShM carrying capabilities of these crafts.The main AShM of the Tarantul class is the P-20M Stynx which itself is an obsolete weopon with a limited range and the Tarantul class can only carry 4 of them without any credible anti-air missiles other than the hand held Igla-E manpads.I know this because the Indian Navy operates a dozen of these missile boats.Abetter example of a modern corvette should rather be the Israeli built Sa'ar 4.5 Corvettes which can carry at least 8 Harpoons or 6 Gabriel AShMs along with 32 Barak-1 short range Anti-air missiles.

I was trying to point-out the more modern Vietnamese version with 16 Kh-35s. But you are right, they still have no real air defense.

 

[Mike_Brando]

I was trying to point-out the more modern Vietnamese version with 16 Kh-35s. But you are right, they still have no real air defense.
View attachment 138862

So basically you were talking about the modified Tarantul-2 class covettes of the P.V.N.Yeah as far as i know,they do carry a complement of 4*4 quad packed KH-35 Uran launchers,the Indian Navy also has around two heavily modified Tarantul-2 class carrying the same weapons complement but the main disadvantage of these corvettes is the lack of credible anti-air missiles in them.But if i were a senior officer of the P.V.N. or for that matter the I.N. then i would have rather go ahead and bought the new Sa'ar 5 class corvette from IMI as it carries a dealy combination of AShM and AAM at the same time.

 

[Penguin]

A new stealth corvette from France | Defense Update:

The C Sword 90 carries a powerful combat systems package comprising surface, anti-submarine and anti-air weaponry, guns, countermeasures and a wide range of ISR sensors.

The primary sensor is an unspecified ‘new generation’ phased array radar, comprised of four flat panels mounted on the upper superstructure.

Mast reminds me of the Australian CEAFAR, seen below on HMAS Perth

 

[Penguin]

looks cool, but one question, what is this? Is it suppose to be a combat ship like in a naval battle? A corvette cannot take on a battle group and it's weapons are not enough to actually support a battlegroup.

Is it for patrol? For that much cash, this ship brings the exact same to the table than a conventional ship does, in the sense a pirate ship or coast guard can't do anything anyways.

So while impressive, I fail to see the value of such a craft.

Missions
> Coastal and off-shore patrolling
> Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance (ISR)
> Naval and law enforcement application
> Integration to a naval task force for Anti-submarine and Anti-Surface Warfare
> Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) monitoring & surveillance
> Scouting around littoral tactical areas
> Deterrent strike operations and stabilization operations
> Support to Land Forces actions operations
> 10t class helicopter operation

> Length Overall : 95.0 m
> Length @ Waterline : 92.0 m
> Beam Overall : 15.7 m
> Beam @ Waterline : 12.7 m
> Maximum draught : 4.00 m
C Sword 90 - CMN Group
http://cmn-group.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Corvette-C-Sword-901.pdf

By comparison,

Ada class (MILGEM) dimensions
Displacement:2,300 tonnes
Length:99.56 m (326.6 ft)
Beam:14.40 m (47.2 ft)
Draught: 3.89 m (12.8 ft)

Braunschweig class dimensions
Displacement:1,840 tonnes (1,810 long tons)
Length:89.12 m (292 ft 5 in)
Beam:13.28 m (43 ft 7 in)
Draft:3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)

Baynunah class dimensions
Displacement:915 tons
Length:71.3 m (234 ft)
Beam:11 m (36 ft)
Draft:2.8 m (9 ft 2 in)

In essence you are looking at (almost) a light frigate, around 2000 tons, for some (smaller) navies the capital ship, for other (larger) navies the supplement to main fleet units.

 

[atatwolf]

Looks like Turkish stealth ship

 

[Aepsilons]

Missions
> Coastal and off-shore patrolling
> Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance (ISR)
> Naval and law enforcement application
> Integration to a naval task force for Anti-submarine and Anti-Surface Warfare
> Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) monitoring & surveillance
> Scouting around littoral tactical areas
> Deterrent strike operations and stabilization operations
> Support to Land Forces actions operations
> 10t class helicopter operation

> Length Overall : 95.0 m
> Length @ Waterline : 92.0 m
> Beam Overall : 15.7 m
> Beam @ Waterline : 12.7 m
> Maximum draught : 4.00 m
C Sword 90 - CMN Group
http://cmn-group.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Corvette-C-Sword-901.pdf

By comparison,

Ada class (MILGEM) dimensions
Displacement:2,300 tonnes
Length:99.56 m (326.6 ft)
Beam:14.40 m (47.2 ft)
Draught: 3.89 m (12.8 ft)

Braunschweig class dimensions
Displacement:1,840 tonnes (1,810 long tons)
Length:89.12 m (292 ft 5 in)
Beam:13.28 m (43 ft 7 in)
Draft:3.4 m (11 ft 2 in)

Baynunah class dimensions
Displacement:915 tons
Length:71.3 m (234 ft)
Beam:11 m (36 ft)
Draft:2.8 m (9 ft 2 in)

In essence you are looking at (almost) a light frigate

My assumption is that these would be deployed around the overseas French departments, especially in say Polynesia, the IOR, and in the South American coastal waters. This should be an attractive vessel for the navies of developing navies as well. Do you happen to know the cost of this ship, Sir? Advanced Thanks.

I was trying to point-out the more modern Vietnamese version with 16 Kh-35s. But you are right, they still have no real air defense.
View attachment 138862

This ship is perfect for swarming naval maneuvers, but they are, as what you have said, susceptible to air threats. Thus, they can only be deployed for territorial defense. I do ponder on how a flotilla of these would fare against say a squadron of the PLAN's Type 052Ds.