A divided nation | Peace or War with Taliban?

[Hyperion]

Mambeena, you are not aware of ground realities in Pakistan. PDF and CNN can not be your sole compass for such info either. Things are way more complex than you can even begin to process.
@Mamba

 

[Armstrong]

Dude, in the Pakistani political fabric, thanks to Zia, the definition of 'secular' becomes different. In our prespective, it would be the ANP, MQM, PPP on the left and PML-N, PTI, JUI as right. Subtle but prevalent there are ideologies that effect our voter behaviour despite the repeated muddling in our votes.

You didn't thank my previous post !

Neither did Syeda @Mamba !

In my humble opinion there is no 'voting' pattern of note in Pakistan except the ones that would correlate with that of a plutocracy !

At any rate I can't imagine when we ever had Secular & Leftist Parties - We - the People - never had any consumption for Secularism.....Pluralism - Yes ! Secularism - No, we're just too much vested into our religion & its varied paradigms for that !

 

[jaibi]

You didn't thank my previous post !

Neither did Syeda @Mamba !

In my humble opinion there is no 'voting' pattern of note in Pakistan except the ones that would correlate with that of a plutocracy !

At any rate I can't imagine when we ever had Secular & Leftist Parties - We - the People - never had any consumption for Secularism.....Pluralism - Yes ! Secularism - No, we're just too much vested into our religion & its varied paradigms for that !

You know, Arm, we are so mad that I heard a man say that he will not vote for PPP because Zardari was Shia and would allow Shias to get more power. The Nawaz group would ensure the right balance. Even Shias gaining power is a good step for us.

 

[Armstrong]

You know, Arm, we are so mad that I heard a man say that he will not vote for PPP because Zardari was Shia and would allow Shias to get more power. The Nawaz group would ensure the right balance. Even Shias gaining power is a good step for us.

I've heard from a Sindhi Taxi Driver in Karachi where he said he won't vote for Nawaz because hes a Punjabi !

I've heard from my friends, when I was sitting in a gathering that consisted mostly of Shias, that voting for PPP is the right choice because Bibi Shaheed was a Shia & we should stick with our own !

Thankfully another one of them pointed out 'Yeh Subbb Politician Eikk Jaiseiii Haiiiin' !

 

[jaibi]

I've heard from a Sindhi Taxi Driver in Karachi where he said he won't vote for Nawaz because hes a Punjabi !

I've heard from my friends, when I was sitting in a gathering that consisted mostly of Shias, that voting for PPP is the right choice because Bibi Shaheed was a Shia & we should stick with our own !

Thankfully another one of them pointed out 'Yeh Subbb Politician Eikk Jaiseiii Haiiiin' !

Exactly, so we have to address the collective consciousness of our people as well.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Peace set by the terms of state of Pakistan, they need to soften TTP militarily before accepting offer for talks

Very basic and logical argument indeed. Indian government never sat down to talk with any armed group (particularly NE) unless that group was on the defensive first. I'm surprised many Pakistanis are not even considering the ABCs of negotiations.

 

[KingMamba]

Mambeena, you are not aware of ground realities in Pakistan. PDF and CNN can not be your sole compass for such info either. Things are way more complex than you can even begin to process.
@Mamba

Ok and if you are not going to expand on this what was the point of this?

 

[Armstrong]

Exactly, so we have to address the collective consciousness of our people as well.

If there are common denominators in the collective consciousness of 'our people' then they are an infatuation with self-flaggelation, stupidity of the highest order & a clear disassociation from critical thought !

What we need is an Enlightened Leader who can guide, nurture & caress our people into reinventing themselves into something more than what we are today !

My Enlightened Leader died in '48 & I don't think that this Land is ready to give birth to another one just yet !

 

[Hyperion]

I read through your comments and that of JB....... I'll comment in detail in couple of hours..... busy on the phone......

Ok and if you are not going to expand on this what was the point of this?

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Nation is not divided. All want peaceful solution and peace talk with Taliban. Recent, All Parties conference is a evidence!!

 

[Alpha1]

You know, Arm, we are so mad that I heard a man say that he will not vote for PPP because Zardari was Shia and would allow Shias to get more power. The Nawaz group would ensure the right balance. Even Shias gaining power is a good step for us.

yar one of my friend broke friendship coz i had befriended a shia

Nation is not divided. All want peaceful solution and peace talk with Taliban. Recent, All Parties conference is a evidence!!

Talibunnies told us how much they want peace by blowing up our Major General
i am of the opinion that our nation needs an ideological overhaul!

 

[KingMamba]

Our operation is centered in the FATA region, the latest battle, which was also the most bloody one was in the Tirah Valley, the edge of our country, our Army is not afraid to venture in there. We are there, sir. The drone attacks are encouraged because we as a nation are in no shape to tell the US to stop that's why we shelved the Iran-Pak line though it would have helped us a lot.

I am talking about North Waziristan where most of the strikes are aimed towards. That is where Pak fauj does not want to go because some of the groups there are not hostile to Pakistan. Not true, drone strikes go on because GOP and GOUS have already agreed to it and the opposition is just a charade. The CIA and ISI were collaborating on the strikes for a long time until the attack left 26 soldiers dead and the stopping of supplies, now however things are getting back into order.

The TTP is a power divided, yes, the PA tried to raise local laskars (armies) against them but categorically the army has been against all branches of the TTP/terrorist ever since our operations there. We have lost nearly 3000 troops there and 50,000 people in total. The army has headed for a blunt approach and the civilian government has not been able to do its part successfully. I would refer you to the report on it by Shuja Nawaz, Learn by doing, please search it here on PDF, I posted it.

You are forgetting that I am talking about Afghan Taliban and their relationship with the TTP and not lashkar or anything else of that sort. Link the report.

Again this is divorced from the ground realities, much like Israel could not survive without the US giving it a substantial support. The Israeli state enjoyed that we did not. In fact only 5% of the aid we have had could have been directed to our infrastructure.
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States cannot survive while trying to defend themselves on survival, mind you, the waterworks in Kashmir are paramount for Pakistani economy. Combined with diplomatic mistakes the US has not been a good influence on the Indo-Pak relations. The USSR had tried to be better. It's not about Pakistan relying too much on the US but the US not being a good ally and positive to the Indo-Pak relations.

Again you missed what I was trying to say, Pakistan should never have relied on US to bail it out alone it should have kept all its diplomatic options open. Bhutto tried to diversify things when he approached the USSR but Zia changed everything not soon after. The US cannot influence India on kashmir, do you guys forget the Shimla agreement that freed Pakistani pows from India? What was the provision enclosed?? C'mon mate. The USSR did not do anything for that either, most of the time they were on Indian side of things.

 

[jaibi]

yar one of my friend broke friendship coz i had befriended a shia


Talibunnies told us how much they want peace by blowing up our Major General
i am of the opinion that our nation needs an ideological overhaul!

Spot on Alph, I'm with you on our ideological overhauling!

I've had similar experiecnes about people being prejudiced against Shais and other fellow Pakistanis.

 

[KingMamba]

Again, sir, you mistook it. I am severely against the wholescale copy paste of theoretical perspectives on an independent cultures, I am showing the same sets of problems being solved by a way. I said that we can evolve our own and we should but we are not in a vaccum and we should look for the processes done in other nations.

Again, comparing apples and oranges is at times beneficial I say that as a researcher. In creative therapy we show that to people, how to evolve solutions from vastly different set of problems, drawing analogies is an amazing human capability that helps solve problems.

Again, sir, the intention of comparing problems of the US, Israel and Pakistan was to illuminate the successful culmination of similar sociological factors. The foundation of national identiy, defence of the that identiy and assimilation of the fissures of the national identity.

The bold is where we differ and we are just going in circles. I do not believe they are the "same set of problems" and I do not believe Pakistan has "similar sociological factors" with any of those nations mentioned.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Talibunnies told us how much they want peace by blowing up our Major General
i am of the opinion that our nation needs an ideological overhaul!

Yar they are guerrilla fighters. Either you go will full war or peace talk, we can't finish them. They will continue to fight for 50+ years. There is no end of this war expect to bring them on table talk, and then play your cards better. Only way is to convince them on own terms, try, try again.... Put them on hold....
In full scale war, may be we can demolish them within 15-20 years.... But at the cost of more bloodshed of civilians, army and we have to bear the barking media... and so called civil society and human rights organization...
Children of Taliban is their future, if you leave them, and they will take revenge...
Best strategy is to put them on Hold, and Invest in education sector......................