jaibi
SENIOR MODERATOR
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2012
- Messages
- 3,459
- Reaction score
- 108
- Country
- Location
A Divided Nation Against A United Enemy
For the purpose of this article I would try to be as neutral as possible yet I admit that personal opinions would somehow spill over, yet, I believe something like this is the need of the hour.
Peace with the beast?
During Pakistans historic elections the old time heavy weight PML-N and the new force to be reckoned with the PTI along with some other center-rightest parties promised an end to militancy, an issue which featured a lower profile than it should have in the agenda of the parties. On one side was the PPP along with the ANP and MQM that wanted to engage the terrorists or so was their perception for the common voter. On the other side was the PML-N and PTI with JUI and other religious or conservative parties looking to either pull out Pakistan from perceived American trenches or lead her to a path of peace with the TTP.
Lets for a moment forget the premise that the Pakistan Army is calling all the shots and focus on the political aspects of it. We all know that the PML-N and PTI won over the PPP and her allies in terms of the militancy question this means that Pakistanis want peace with the Talibs.
However, a key process that gets ignored in Pakistani politics is consensus development. In a nation with a high diversity it is paramount to develop consensus and it is not just centred around the parties but amongst the common folk and after nearly a decade of fighting and bleeding Pakistanis are still not convinced that this is Pakistans War.
In an effort to make people think what the future holds I would present the arguments on both sides and would welcome readers to please contribute their views to me and one another.
Solution of peace
The first camp that wants peace asserts that this war is essentially an American war, not Pakistans and had Pakistani leadership of the time been strong enough there would have been no war in the tribal region. Building on this premise they see the 50, 000 civilians dead since 2001 as victims of American imperial power rather than casualties of an enemy of Pakistan. For them we should make peace with the terrorists and focus on the real enemy, which would mean India or the internal and desperate situation we face in the country.
On paper it looks great and there are certain points to be noted here: there is a significant population in KPK that does not want the war to continue. The victory of PTI is held often as a proof of that and essentially it should be noted for everyone that the people of KPK take the brunt of the assault from both sides, the military and the militancy, and it is hard to differentiate the effects that both of them have on the common civilian life.
It is also paramount to note that this war is essentially a large scale counterinsurgency (COIN) war and thus the support of the local populace is needed otherwise this is a lost cause or would be a Pyrrhic victory. There should be no qualms of the desperate internal situation we have, economically we cannot survive without foreign monetary support and the reason for stretching Pakistan so thin, in the minds of a significant population, is the War of Terror. Peace = prosperity = better Pakistan.
The Devils advocate
That being said, I would ask this portion of Pakistan a couple of questions to answer for themselves and for me or at least ponder over it.
Firstly, do you know what peace will entail? What will the Taliban do? Will they take their guns and bombs home and apply for a job at Warid or Aruj TV? Or would they take some sheep and start a small scale herding business with their expertise in logistics? What do you think? Will they disband and laugh with you over a cup of kawa about the time when Molvi so and so declared an order to take army post so and so and the Taliban fighter had forgotten his AK at home and had to borrow it from a friend of a friend and still hasnt returned it? Are you comfortable with them going around your backyard?
Secondly, do you know what these guys do? The Afghani Talibs started similar, they were rag tag and climbed to the top and what did they do then? Implement the Shariah, banned TV and music, publically beat women whose feet would show. Do you want that to happen to your daughter? A 20 something guy snapping a stick at her feet while she walks home with you and has an AK shoved in your face. Ask the people in Swat who lived under them, they were terrified of these Muslims. Do you want to live like that?
Thirdly, are you OK with 50, 000 people of your country dying, a number greater than all the number of people we lost during our three adventures with India and the people responsible going free and actually one day taking over?
That is what peace will do. These guys are already telling us how they things are going to go. You hate the army? The government? You enjoy some idiot on TV making fun of them? Well you cant hate them, they will kill you. Are you ready for that? Are you ready to live either as a clobber or poppy farmer or mover? Will that make you a good Muslim?
The army and the government are not perfect, I agree, but on some level, at some place, they are accountable to you. The Army chief is going, the PM will go. You can read things about them in the
papers and on TV about what they do wrong, you can have some kawah and share the baldness of the PM and his brother and have a laugh. That is going away with the Talibs in charge and have no confusion about that they are coming if they have the space and opportunity to.
I agree that the development of KPK and FATA has not been at par to what it should have been but with the greatest idiot in the PM house and greatest dictator in GHQ you still have the opportunity to have development. You guys did not want the ANP you got the PTI (I cheer you for that, I tried too but we failed) and if you dont like them you can get some other guy. However, once a Talib comes, he will stay. Do you want that?
No peace
The no peace camp states that how can we allow people who target and kill us openly and indiscriminately to go around free? We have sacrificed, all of us, some more than others, we agree. Isnt that how we have lived since our inception? We had to fight the Indian might, the Afghani plans and justifiably the Soviet plans (which lead to our division as well though we were practically begging for it) to take over. We have had to fight to survive. How are the Talibs any different? At best they are criminals rather than militants but still they are not someone to open doors for.
This might have started as Americas war but not it is our war. Telling someone not fair whence we get caught in pakranpakrai is not really a way to play the game. So we must fight the Talibs and any whod want to see Pakistan divided.
The Devils advocate
OK, a number of questions for you guys as well.
Firstly, ask any common man, PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA whats he going to say? Im sure you know what. So if thats true and thats the only reason we have Pakistan doesnt that justify the Talibs? If we are the choosers of our own destiny then should we not move towards a more tolerant society? If LGS makes a syllabus comparative religion and we go crazy over it how do you expect us to fight an ideological enemy when our ideological cracks allow them to thrive? Should we not be like them and be vigilant on the streets as we are on facebook? This is a war and everyone has a part to play. Its like the Battle of Britan for us. Are you doing enough? Are you tolerant enough to ideologically fight a mental Talib? If not then how can you put the pressure on the government when you are not coming up to the mark?
Secondly, Uncle Sams exiting and as the perfect metaphor for US-Pak relationships has been coined by S. Nawaz and S. Cohen about us being Uncle Sams condom do you truly expect them to support us? Do we not need to invest in the economy and civil infrastructure? All studies on COIN strategies show that no centralised command, on which every institution that we have is made, can defeat a well grounded insurgents. Dont we need to support, and not on facebook, the proper reforms for our education, civil service and even the military? Wouldnt a child whos educated at par with a child educated from LGS, Beaconhouse, BHS, NGS and so on from a government institution regardless of the location in Pakistan be the ground to stop the recruitment of TTP? Are you doing enough to see that happen?
Thirdly, yes, the military is doing what it should by saying that these cowards will not dictate how we roll into peace. I agree. That doesnt mean that democracy is wrong in Pakistan. These Talibs are a result of strategy born out of no accountability because even at snails pace, democratic institutions get their will known. Take for example the US-Vietnam war, had the US opinion not changed the war would have been much more bloodier, the Vietcong lost most of the battles but won the one that mattered: the opinion of the US citizens. In the long run that is the only way for our society to survive so should we not side with the government rather than the military if it comes to whos in charge? We elected them. Were responsible for them. Cant we have a massive protest in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Faisalabad, Pehsawar, Quetta and so on with slogans of no peace with Talibs, we want them gone? Are we doing enough? If not then how can we expect this to work?
The stance of war needs to take into account that the TTP has thrived because of our divisions and societal fissures which they have infected and are thriving. Its not one institution that is responsible it is everyone in one way or another. You can do your part and convince your countrymen that you stand with them, not the Talibs. That you will support them in case anything happens, youve their backs. Also, your government needs to have no qualms about what you want. Protest, on the streets, not facebook to let these people know whos boss and they want. Do your part then expect something. Are you aware that your stance is harder and thus requires more input?
Show everyone your mettle as a nation this is our generations 65 dont let it turn into 71.
@Alpha1 @Capt.Popeye @haviZsultan @hinduguy @Pak-one @Slav Defece @Ayush @Armstrong @Dillinger @Secur @Hyperion @Aeronaut @Mirzy @S.Y.A @S.U.R.B. @Marshmallow
For the purpose of this article I would try to be as neutral as possible yet I admit that personal opinions would somehow spill over, yet, I believe something like this is the need of the hour.
Peace with the beast?
During Pakistans historic elections the old time heavy weight PML-N and the new force to be reckoned with the PTI along with some other center-rightest parties promised an end to militancy, an issue which featured a lower profile than it should have in the agenda of the parties. On one side was the PPP along with the ANP and MQM that wanted to engage the terrorists or so was their perception for the common voter. On the other side was the PML-N and PTI with JUI and other religious or conservative parties looking to either pull out Pakistan from perceived American trenches or lead her to a path of peace with the TTP.
Lets for a moment forget the premise that the Pakistan Army is calling all the shots and focus on the political aspects of it. We all know that the PML-N and PTI won over the PPP and her allies in terms of the militancy question this means that Pakistanis want peace with the Talibs.
However, a key process that gets ignored in Pakistani politics is consensus development. In a nation with a high diversity it is paramount to develop consensus and it is not just centred around the parties but amongst the common folk and after nearly a decade of fighting and bleeding Pakistanis are still not convinced that this is Pakistans War.
In an effort to make people think what the future holds I would present the arguments on both sides and would welcome readers to please contribute their views to me and one another.
Solution of peace
The first camp that wants peace asserts that this war is essentially an American war, not Pakistans and had Pakistani leadership of the time been strong enough there would have been no war in the tribal region. Building on this premise they see the 50, 000 civilians dead since 2001 as victims of American imperial power rather than casualties of an enemy of Pakistan. For them we should make peace with the terrorists and focus on the real enemy, which would mean India or the internal and desperate situation we face in the country.
On paper it looks great and there are certain points to be noted here: there is a significant population in KPK that does not want the war to continue. The victory of PTI is held often as a proof of that and essentially it should be noted for everyone that the people of KPK take the brunt of the assault from both sides, the military and the militancy, and it is hard to differentiate the effects that both of them have on the common civilian life.
It is also paramount to note that this war is essentially a large scale counterinsurgency (COIN) war and thus the support of the local populace is needed otherwise this is a lost cause or would be a Pyrrhic victory. There should be no qualms of the desperate internal situation we have, economically we cannot survive without foreign monetary support and the reason for stretching Pakistan so thin, in the minds of a significant population, is the War of Terror. Peace = prosperity = better Pakistan.
The Devils advocate
That being said, I would ask this portion of Pakistan a couple of questions to answer for themselves and for me or at least ponder over it.
Firstly, do you know what peace will entail? What will the Taliban do? Will they take their guns and bombs home and apply for a job at Warid or Aruj TV? Or would they take some sheep and start a small scale herding business with their expertise in logistics? What do you think? Will they disband and laugh with you over a cup of kawa about the time when Molvi so and so declared an order to take army post so and so and the Taliban fighter had forgotten his AK at home and had to borrow it from a friend of a friend and still hasnt returned it? Are you comfortable with them going around your backyard?
Secondly, do you know what these guys do? The Afghani Talibs started similar, they were rag tag and climbed to the top and what did they do then? Implement the Shariah, banned TV and music, publically beat women whose feet would show. Do you want that to happen to your daughter? A 20 something guy snapping a stick at her feet while she walks home with you and has an AK shoved in your face. Ask the people in Swat who lived under them, they were terrified of these Muslims. Do you want to live like that?
Thirdly, are you OK with 50, 000 people of your country dying, a number greater than all the number of people we lost during our three adventures with India and the people responsible going free and actually one day taking over?
That is what peace will do. These guys are already telling us how they things are going to go. You hate the army? The government? You enjoy some idiot on TV making fun of them? Well you cant hate them, they will kill you. Are you ready for that? Are you ready to live either as a clobber or poppy farmer or mover? Will that make you a good Muslim?
The army and the government are not perfect, I agree, but on some level, at some place, they are accountable to you. The Army chief is going, the PM will go. You can read things about them in the
papers and on TV about what they do wrong, you can have some kawah and share the baldness of the PM and his brother and have a laugh. That is going away with the Talibs in charge and have no confusion about that they are coming if they have the space and opportunity to.
I agree that the development of KPK and FATA has not been at par to what it should have been but with the greatest idiot in the PM house and greatest dictator in GHQ you still have the opportunity to have development. You guys did not want the ANP you got the PTI (I cheer you for that, I tried too but we failed) and if you dont like them you can get some other guy. However, once a Talib comes, he will stay. Do you want that?
No peace
The no peace camp states that how can we allow people who target and kill us openly and indiscriminately to go around free? We have sacrificed, all of us, some more than others, we agree. Isnt that how we have lived since our inception? We had to fight the Indian might, the Afghani plans and justifiably the Soviet plans (which lead to our division as well though we were practically begging for it) to take over. We have had to fight to survive. How are the Talibs any different? At best they are criminals rather than militants but still they are not someone to open doors for.
This might have started as Americas war but not it is our war. Telling someone not fair whence we get caught in pakranpakrai is not really a way to play the game. So we must fight the Talibs and any whod want to see Pakistan divided.
The Devils advocate
OK, a number of questions for you guys as well.
Firstly, ask any common man, PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA whats he going to say? Im sure you know what. So if thats true and thats the only reason we have Pakistan doesnt that justify the Talibs? If we are the choosers of our own destiny then should we not move towards a more tolerant society? If LGS makes a syllabus comparative religion and we go crazy over it how do you expect us to fight an ideological enemy when our ideological cracks allow them to thrive? Should we not be like them and be vigilant on the streets as we are on facebook? This is a war and everyone has a part to play. Its like the Battle of Britan for us. Are you doing enough? Are you tolerant enough to ideologically fight a mental Talib? If not then how can you put the pressure on the government when you are not coming up to the mark?
Secondly, Uncle Sams exiting and as the perfect metaphor for US-Pak relationships has been coined by S. Nawaz and S. Cohen about us being Uncle Sams condom do you truly expect them to support us? Do we not need to invest in the economy and civil infrastructure? All studies on COIN strategies show that no centralised command, on which every institution that we have is made, can defeat a well grounded insurgents. Dont we need to support, and not on facebook, the proper reforms for our education, civil service and even the military? Wouldnt a child whos educated at par with a child educated from LGS, Beaconhouse, BHS, NGS and so on from a government institution regardless of the location in Pakistan be the ground to stop the recruitment of TTP? Are you doing enough to see that happen?
Thirdly, yes, the military is doing what it should by saying that these cowards will not dictate how we roll into peace. I agree. That doesnt mean that democracy is wrong in Pakistan. These Talibs are a result of strategy born out of no accountability because even at snails pace, democratic institutions get their will known. Take for example the US-Vietnam war, had the US opinion not changed the war would have been much more bloodier, the Vietcong lost most of the battles but won the one that mattered: the opinion of the US citizens. In the long run that is the only way for our society to survive so should we not side with the government rather than the military if it comes to whos in charge? We elected them. Were responsible for them. Cant we have a massive protest in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, Faisalabad, Pehsawar, Quetta and so on with slogans of no peace with Talibs, we want them gone? Are we doing enough? If not then how can we expect this to work?
The stance of war needs to take into account that the TTP has thrived because of our divisions and societal fissures which they have infected and are thriving. Its not one institution that is responsible it is everyone in one way or another. You can do your part and convince your countrymen that you stand with them, not the Talibs. That you will support them in case anything happens, youve their backs. Also, your government needs to have no qualms about what you want. Protest, on the streets, not facebook to let these people know whos boss and they want. Do your part then expect something. Are you aware that your stance is harder and thus requires more input?
Show everyone your mettle as a nation this is our generations 65 dont let it turn into 71.
@Alpha1 @Capt.Popeye @haviZsultan @hinduguy @Pak-one @Slav Defece @Ayush @Armstrong @Dillinger @Secur @Hyperion @Aeronaut @Mirzy @S.Y.A @S.U.R.B. @Marshmallow
Last edited by a moderator:
![[Bregs]](/data/avatars/m/148/148509.jpg?1491816884){kind=avatar}
