A Day with Pakistan Marine.

[Moonlight]

 

[Moonlight]

@django @The Sandman @Zibago @Mentee @PaklovesTurkiye @lastofthepatriots @LA se Karachi @RealNapster @Arsalan

@waz Bhai I think I have posted it in the wrong section. Please check it and move it to the relevant thread. Shkuria.

 

[LA se Karachi]

Very informative video. I liked that they explained each one of the exercises and interviewed a lot of people. Counter-terrorism operations are vitally important these days. Indeed, it will probably be the primary source of combat for those in uniform moving forward. Pakistan is blessed with its armed forces.

 

[Moonlight]

Very informative video. I liked that they explained each one of the exercises and interviewed a lot of people. Counter-terrorism operations are vitally important these days. Indeed, it will probably be the primary source of combat for those in uniform moving forward. Pakistan is blessed with its armed forces.

Very true. Alhumdulillah.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Wow...Thats navy day for you....I hope we spend more on our navy...These guys have been neglected for years...

 

[django]

@django @The Sandman @Zibago @Mentee @PaklovesTurkiye @lastofthepatriots @LA se Karachi @RealNapster @Arsalan

@waz Bhai I think I have posted it in the wrong section. Please check it and move it to the relevant thread. Shkuria.

Nice share.Kudos

 

[Signalian]

@Ulla

 

[Inception-06]

@Ulla

I am glad that you tagged me !

Amazing show !

 

[Signalian]

I am glad that you tagged me !

Amazing show !

No worries.

Room for a lot of improvement in pakistan Marines, any ideas?

 

[Inception-06]

No worries.

Room for a lot of improvement in pakistan Marines, any ideas?

They lack in mobility, firepower and standard equipment.

How about give them retired PIA Planes, overhaul them, so they get the option for Airborne operations over the Ran of Kutch area. They should have ca. 1000 men for Airbrone Operations.

For the river and sea mobility they need more boats, even simples motor boat would meet the requirement for transport on rivers and coastal sea area. Such boats can be built att KSEW, one boat should carry 20 Marines, houes a 12.7mm AA gun, must be all weather operations and need all the other necessary on board equipment.

These two things would made them true marines,because now their operational capabilities related to amphibians and sea-Land operations are limited, with adding every year 6-10 Boats and in 5 years ca. 100 this would become a dangerous punch force in the Ran of Kutch area, more headache for India.


100x20= 2000 men strong Force ready to land any time any where in near the Indian coast in Ran of Kutch area and open a new frontline !

Check this examples:


This one needs a bigger cabin, to give the crew all weather shelter and protection from the sea.

This one need more weapons 3 12.7mm and 2 MG-3 would made it perfect.

 

[Signalian]

They lack in mobility, firepower and standard equipment.

How about give them retired PIA Planes, overhaul them, so they get the option for Airborne operations over the Ran of Kutch area. They should have ca. 1000 men for Airbrone Operations.

For the river and sea mobility the need more boats, even simples motor boat would meet the requirement for transport on rivers and coastal sea area. Such boats can be built att KSEW, one boat should carry 20 Marines, houes a 12.7mm AA gun, must be all weather operations and need all the other necessary on board equipment.

These two things would made them true marines,because now their operational capabilities related to amphibians and sea-Land operations are limited, with adding every year 6-10 Boats and in 5 years ca. 100 this would become a dangerous punch force in the Ran of Kutch area, more headache for India.


100x20= 2000 men strong Force ready to land any time any where in near the Indian coast in Ran of Kutch area and open a new frontline !

Check this examples:


This one needs a bigger cabin, to give the crew all weather shelter and protection from the sea.
View attachment 334119


This one need more weapons 3 12.7mm and 2 MG-3 would made it perfect.
View attachment 334120

I agree that Pak Marines lack in mobility, firepower and heavy equipment. However, they also lack in numbers. They are a brigade sized force whose main duty is just DEFENCE.

Defence of Sir Creek area as well as Naval installations. They do have some good number of boats and hovercraft but thats just enough equipment which is necessary for a defensive force. They lack an offensive punch.

Defence of Naval installations could also have been given to a local security forces like DSG is for GHQ or a base QRF trained on Air Defence systems also. The latest raised 3rd Marine battalion is to provide security in Gawadar Area, which is obviously important but Pakistan Army has also raised a security force for Gawadar already.

Coming to Maritime security, Pakistan already has 4 battalions of Coast Guard. They are giving duty before re-raising of Marines on the coastline belt. The 3rd Battalion of Pakistan Coast Guard is already posted in Gawadar for Maritime Security.
Pakistan Coast guard already has 4 corvettes, 9 Fast response boats and 3 aircrafts. The strength is similar to Pakistan Marines.

Pakistan Marines operate hovercrafts as well as fast response boats which are very useful in Sir Creek Region for transport and firepower but still lack a dedicated air component as well as amphibious APC or Tanks as Marines need to fight on ground also.
The suggestion for a dedicated air arm would include:
1. Mi-17 helicopter
2. PIA/PAF seconded aircrafts to start with
3. UAV's

The Para-role of Pakistan Marines should be made compulsory for atleast the 3rd Battalion based in Gawadar. This Battalion could then conduct Para-drop missions for Navy as well as Army in case of need. This would give a major boost to SSG(N) in conducting missions behind enemy lines.

The major threat that Pak Marines face in Sir Creek region is Indian amphibious assault through Indian 91st Infantry Brigade which also has 5th Armoured Regiment attached to it and an air or amphibious assault of Indian MARCOS.
The 91 Infantry Brigade is around 5000 including support elements and has backing from Indian Naval warships.
MARCOS can attack from sea as well as air and are trained on similar lines like SSG(N). They have air assets like helicopter and transport aircrafts apart from small subs, ATV and sea delivery systems.

The raising of another Marine Brigade of 3 more battalions will give an offensive punch to Pakistan Navy amphibious missions as well as compliment Pakistan Army in time of need.

This is a map showing the Pakistan 5-Corps assets and their probable deployment during a war with India. The southern flank of the 5 Corps is open in the Sir Creek Region where Pakistan Marines Battalion is deployed.

If the Pakistan Marine Battalion is routed and sir creek area is over run by enemy through :

1. Amphibious landing of 91 Infantry Brigade
2. Para Drop or ground attack of MARCOS

The flanks of 5-Corps will be exposed, and 25th Mech Div or 2nd Armoured Bde instead of stopping an impending Indian Armoured attack on the border would then need to be diverted to counter this attack.

Raising a new Pakistan Marines Brigade will give the offensive punch to Marines which could then take the fight to the enemy instead of being just a defensive force and guardians of Naval installations.

The new Pak Marines brigade will form a necessary southern flanking cover for all operations of 5-Corps.

 

[Inception-06]

I agree that Pak Marines lack in mobility, firepower and heavy equipment. However, they also lack in numbers. They are a brigade sized force whose main duty is just DEFENCE.

Defence of Sir Creek area as well as Naval installations. They do have some good number of boats and hovercraft but thats just enough equipment which is necessary for a defensive force. They lack an offensive punch.

Defence of Naval installations could also have been given to a local security forces like DSG is for GHQ or a base QRF trained on Air Defence systems also. The latest raised 3rd Marine battalion is to provide security in Gawadar Area, which is obviously important but Pakistan Army has also raised a security force for Gawadar already.

Coming to Maritime security, Pakistan already has 4 battalions of Coast Guard. They are giving duty before re-raising of Marines on the coastline belt. The 3rd Battalion of Pakistan Coast Guard is already posted in Gawadar for Maritime Security.
Pakistan Coast guard already has 4 corvettes, 9 Fast response boats and 3 aircrafts. The strength is similar to Pakistan Marines.

Pakistan Marines operate hovercrafts as well as fast response boats which are very useful in Sir Creek Region for transport and firepower but still lack a dedicated air component as well as amphibious APC or Tanks as Marines need to fight on ground also.
The suggestion for a dedicated air arm would include:
1. Mi-17 helicopter
2. PIA/PAF seconded aircrafts to start with
3. UAV's

The Para-role of Pakistan Marines should be made compulsory for atleast the 3rd Battalion based in Gawadar. This Battalion could then conduct Para-drop missions for Navy as well as Army in case of need. This would give a major boost to SSG(N) in conducting missions behind enemy lines.

The major threat that Pak Marines face in Sir Creek region is Indian amphibious assault through Indian 91st Infantry Brigade which also has 5th Armoured Regiment attached to it and an air or amphibious assault of Indian MARCOS.
The 91 Infantry Brigade is around 5000 including support elements and has backing from Indian Naval warships.
MARCOS can attack from sea as well as air and are trained on similar lines like SSG(N). They have air assets like helicopter and transport aircrafts apart from small subs, ATV and sea delivery systems.

The raising of another Marine Brigade of 3 more battalions will give an offensive punch to Pakistan Navy amphibious missions as well as compliment Pakistan Army in time of need.

This is a map showing the Pakistan 5-Corps assets and their probable deployment during a war with India. The southern flank of the 5 Corps is open in the Sir Creek Region where Pakistan Marines Battalion is deployed.
View attachment 334130

If the Pakistan Marine Battalion is routed and sir creek area is over run by enemy through :

1. Amphibious landing of 91 Infantry Brigade
2. Para Drop or ground attack of MARCOS

The flanks of 5-Corps will be exposed, and 25th Mech Div or 2nd Armoured Bde instead of stopping an impending Indian Armoured attack on the border would then need to be diverted to counter this attack.


Raising a new Pakistan Marines Brigade will give the offensive punch to Marines which could then take the fight to the enemy instead of being just a defensive force and guardians of Naval installations.

View attachment 334132

The new Pak Marines brigade will form a necessary southern flanking cover for all operations of 5-Corps.

View attachment 334133

View attachment 334131

I agree with you in every point, lets be realistic, Pakistan can not afford to equip the Marines with high tech and foreign equipment, the only option is to use the industry and capacity of Pakistan.

Type-59IIM Tanks, Anza Missiles, Baktahr Shikan ATGM, Landing crafts and gun boats produced at KSEW, Type-74 AA Gun 37mm installed on Bases and in Bunkers,


Do you think that the Type-59IIM Tank can be operated in the Ran of Kutch and Sir Creek area, I mean they are lighter than the Indian T-72 Tanks, which the indians have shown in their amphibious landing execise. The Type-59IIM Tanks would provide the Marines the much needed mobile firepower, we have enough reserves and could upgrade them with the right equipment, to be operational in that difficult area. Or would it not make sense to operate Tanks in that area ?

Our Future Marine assault Brigade ?:

KSEW has build in the last months 3 landing ships, this shows that we have the capacity to build small boats and landings crafts, may be also in higher numbers ?

The current indian status, which is very dangerous as you already have mentioned it, the combination of amphibious BMP and T-72 gives the Indian a lot of offensive options, the answer for such Tank assaults and landing assault could be the Bakthar Shikan, which have now be mass produced, a lethal weapon for the Pakistan Marine Brigade.

 

[Signalian]

View attachment 334131

I agree with you in every point, lets be realistic, Pakistan can not afford to equip the Marines with high tech and foreign equipment, the only option is to use the industry and capacity of Pakistan.

Type-59IIM Tanks, Anza Missiles, Baktahr Shikan ATGM, Landing crafts and gun boats produced at KSEW, Type-74 AA Gun 37mm installed on Bases and in Bunkers,


Do you think that the Type-59IIM Tank can be operated in the Ran of Kutch and Sir Creek area, I mean they are lighter than the Indian T-72 Tanks, which the indians have shown in their amphibious landing execise. The Type-59IIM Tanks would provide the Marines the much needed mobile firepower, we have enough reserves and could upgrade them with the right equipment, to be operational in that difficult area. Or would it not make sense to operate Tanks in that area ?

Our Future Marine assault Brigade ?:

View attachment 334300

KSEW has build in the last months 3 landing ships, this shows that we have the capacity to build small boats and landings crafts, may be also in higher numbers ?
View attachment 334299



The current indian status, which is very dangerous as you already have mentioned it, the combination of amphibious BMP and T-72 gives the Indian a lot of offensive options, the answer for such Tank assaults and landing assault could be the Bakthar Shikan, which have now be mass produced, a lethal weapon for the Pakistan Marine Brigade.
View attachment 334301 View attachment 334302

Pak Marines are not considered separate from Navy thats why their budget is allocated in Naval Budget. This is main problem for modernising this arm.

Tank or APC operations in Sir Creek area is difficult. It was easy to put a defensive battalion with high speed armed boats and hovercrafts in this area. Unfortunately, PN envisions Marines as a defensive force.

Expeditionary forces like Marines always have the best equipment usually.
Tanks can operate at certain places in Rann of Kutch area. T-59 II engine is still smaller so armour upgrading will make it heavier affecting mobility but yeah it could be used but not in Creek area. The terrain is more marshy than desert.

check the photo in link.

http://pakarmy.pk.tripod.com/rannofkutch.html

However, a squadron of 12-15 tanks as well as a battery of 6 artillery guns can be a good start for offensive operations.
Landing crafts in good numbers as well as 2-3 helicopters should also be added.

 

[Inception-06]

Pak Marines are not considered separate from Navy thats why their budget is allocated in Naval Budget. This is main problem for modernising this arm.

Tank or APC operations in Sir Creek area is difficult. It was easy to put a defensive battalion with high speed armed boats and hovercrafts in this area. Unfortunately, PN envisions Marines as a defensive force.

Expeditionary forces like Marines always have the best equipment usually.
Tanks can operate at certain places in Rann of Kutch area. T-59 II engine is still smaller so armour upgrading will make it heavier affecting mobility but yeah it could be used but not in Creek area. The terrain is more marshy than desert.

check the photo in link.

http://pakarmy.pk.tripod.com/rannofkutch.html

However, a squadron of 12-15 tanks as well as a battery of 6 artillery guns can be a good start for offensive operations.
Landing crafts in good numbers as well as 2-3 helicopters should also be added.

@Sarge check this Video if you get the time, and notice how the "little" speed boats 0:33 and 02:08 are used, notice also the way how they use the 23mm AA Gun and the 122mm Rocket launcher !

 

[Signalian]

@Sarge check this Video if you get the time, and notice how the "little" speed boats 0:33 and 02:08 are used, notice also the way how they use the 23mm AA Gun and the 122mm Rocket launcher !

i cant see the video link.