A Caliphate for Muslims but not for Pakistanis

[Dillinger]

The Only Caliph I'd ever submit to are Abu Bakr, Omer, Osman or Ali (Peace Be Upon Them All) - No other !

And so for me My Freedom as a Pakistanis is the greatest gift from God & come what may I'd want Pakistan's sovereignty & independence be preserved irrespective of whatever Caliphate any other Muslim comes up with !

Kuffr!

In jahanum serpents of fire shall feast upon you.

While me and hype enjoy a pleasant barbecue with the ladies close by.

 

[Informant]

How about you keep your religious inclinations (and emotions) out and try to read unbiased history , at least once in your life ??




Genghiz Khan achieved more ... what is your point ?




Quran tells us about the status of Ahlul Bait , but nowhere does it mention the so called Caliphate system ... Neither did prophet (pbuh) gave the "Khilafah System" ... Anyone who believes that Khilafat is an essential part of Islam is simply ignorant .....

About Nepotism , I suggest you read that how the first two caliphs were selected .... Umer r.a selected Abu Bakr r.a at Saqifah , and Abu Bakar r.a later appointed Umer as his successor !! You call it merit ??

Yeah find me a hadith where the Prophet selected a successor and i will recant my position. Ahlul bait have NO right over the next leader in line. They have a higher place amongst others, but that does not give them the upper hand to decide upon a leader. Second i have read plenty, you have your books and sources. I did read on it during my A-levels and i am pretty sure the one you call unbiased is far from it actually. Both sides have their opinions and so be it.

The Prophet SAWS did not leave a successor, dont cry for Ahlul bait. Times have gone and only being stuck on it tells me that you need to get a grip and move on. Seriously.

Oh im not emotional, religion doesnt bring my emotions out. Politics does.

 

[anHuman]

and Amir as well
recall Amir Tamour ..
who had one old Turkman skinned for calling him out Taymour Lung

It was "Lang" not "Lung" ... Lang is persian word that mean "cripple"

even now , all Iranian historian know him as Taymour Lang ...

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yeah find me a hadith where the Prophet selected a successor and i will recant my position.

برنا ) احمد بن شعيب ، قال : اخبرنا قتيبة بن سعيد ، قال : حدثنا جعفر يعني ابن سليمان ، عن يزيد ، عن مطرف بن عبد الله ، عن عمران بن ح??صين قال : جهز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم جيشا واستعمل عليهم علي بن أبي طالب ، فمضى في السرية فأصاب جارية فأنكروا عليه ، وتعاقد اربعة من اصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إذا بعثنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أخبرناه ما صنع .
وكان المسلمون إذا رجعوا من السفر بدؤا برسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فسلموا عليه فانصرفوا إلى رحالهم . فلما قدمت السرية سلموا على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقام احد الاربعة فقال : يا رسول الله ، ألم تر ان علي بن أبي طالب صنع
كذا وكذا . فأعرض عنه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، ثم قام الثاني وقال : مثل ذلك ، ثم الثالث فقال مقالته ، ثم قام الرابع فقال : مثل ما قالوا . فأقبل إليهم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم والغضب يبصر في وجهه ، فقال : ما تريدون من علي ؟ ان عليا مني وانا منه ، وهو ولي كل مؤمن بعدي ) .
imran bin haseen narrates that prophet prepared an army, and made ali ameer; ali got a slave girl after the war; people did not like it; and four decided that when they will meet prophet, they will speak against ali;
when muslim would return, they would meet prophet (it was their custom); and then they would leave for home; so when they retunred from war, they met prophet, and one of the four stood up; and said
o prophet, do you not see ali that he has done like this?
so prophet turned away his face from him;
another person stood up, and said the same
then third one stood up, and said the same;
then fourth one stood up, and said the same;
then prophet turned to them with anger on his face; and said

“what do you wish about ali? no doubt ali is from me, and i am from him; and he is wali of every momin after me”

[musnad ahmad vol 4, page 437 & vol 5 page 356, jami tirmidhi, vol 2 , mustadarak imam hakim, vol 3, page 110, maujam kabeer, tabarani,vol 8, page 127 , sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 373 ] .........


Now lets see which sholars have authenticated this narration and graded it sahih :

1- sheikh hamza zain said: isnaad sahih
[masnad imam ahmad, takhreej of ahmad shakir and zain, vol , page
2-hakim said: sahih on the condition of muslim but he did not write
[musatadark, vol 3, page 110]
3- dhabiagreed in his talkess
[same as before]
and he said in his tareekh e islam: sahih on the condition of muslim
[tareekh e islam, vol 11, page 71, under heading jafar bin suliman]
4-abu ishaq haweeni athari said: isnaad sahih, hakim said it is sahih as per condition of muslim and dhabi kept quiet, so it is like what he (hakim) said
[al jilli ba takhreej khasais-e-ali, page 77, narration 65]
5- albani said; isnaad sahih, narrators thiqa as per condition of muslim
following are the reference where albani authenticated it
a-zilal ul janna, ba takhreej kitab al sunnah, narration 1187;
b-takhreej of mishakt narration 6081;
c-silsila ahadeeth sahihiyya, narration 2223
d-tekhreej of tirmidhi, narration 3712
e-jami sagheer, narration 10535
6- shoaib arnwait said: isnaad qawi
he said this in the following books:-
a- al ihsan ba tarteeb sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 374
b-taleeq ala hadeeth fi Hamish sair alaam nabala, vol 8, page 199, foot note
7- tirmidhi said: hadeeth is hasan ghareeb, I do not know this hadeeth except from jafar bin suliman
[jami tirmidhi vol 5, page 296, kitab manaqib, baab ali ibn abi talib]
8-ibn haban: sahih
[sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 373]
9- sahih as per ibn jurair as mentioned by mutaqqi hindi in his kanz ul amal
[kanz ul amal, vol 13, page 142, narration 36444]
10- salih shami said: narrated by ibn abi sheebah, and it is sahih from imran
[sabl ul huda wa rashhad, vol 11, page 296]
11- sayooti said: ibn abi sheebah narrated from imran and it sahih
[jama ul jawamii, vol 1, narration 14498]
sayooti said hasan ghareeb
[jama ul jawamii, vol 7, page 573, narration 18829]
12- baghwi mentioned it in the hasan category in manaqib ali in his masabeeh
[masabeeh us sunnah, baghwi, vol 3, page 172]
13- ibn abi sheebah said it is sahih as mentioned by sayooti in his book
[al qaul al jalli fi manaqib ali, page 60]
14- ibn hajar asqalani said: narrated by tirmidhi from imran with qawi (strong sanad)
[al asaba, vol 4, page 468, under heading ali ibn abi talib]
15- Hussein saleem asad said: narrators are narrators of sahih; ibn haban mentioned on the chain of abu yala
[musnad abu yala, vol 1, page 293, narration 355]
16- mohammad abdul mohsin alturki said: hadeeth is hasan for there is jafar bin suliman and he is sudooq (truthful)
[musnad abu daood tayalis, vol 2 , page 168 , narration 868]
17- wasi ullah bin mohammad abbass said: isnaad hasan
[fadail us sahaba, ahmad bin hanbal, vol 2, page 655, narration 1035; and vol 2, page 673, narration 1060; vol 2, page 709, narration 1104]
18- hafiz badakhsani mentioned it in nazl ul abrar, so it is sahih
[nazl ul abrar bema sihah manaqib ahlubait athar, page 54]



So this is a sahih tradition without any doubt .. Salafi Scholars like ALBANI are very strict in hadith science , yet it has been graded sahih by him on criteria of Muslim ...

Ahlul bait have NO right over the next leader in line. They have a higher place amongst others, but that does not give them the upper hand to decide upon a leader

That is your personal opinion only ...

Second i have read plenty, you have your books and sources. I did read on it during my A-levels and i am pretty sure the one you call unbiased is far from it actually. Both sides have their opinions and so be it.

My books ?? I was quoting from Sahih Bukhari ... Did you not read the "most authentic book on Islam" during your A levels ??

Oh im not emotional, religion doesnt bring my emotions out.

That`s good ...

 

[Informant]

برنا ) احمد بن شعيب ، قال : اخبرنا قتيبة بن سعيد ، قال : حدثنا جعفر يعني ابن سليمان ، عن يزيد ، عن مطرف بن عبد الله ، عن عمران بن ح??صين قال : جهز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم جيشا واستعمل عليهم علي بن أبي طالب ، فمضى في السرية فأصاب جارية فأنكروا عليه ، وتعاقد اربعة من اصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إذا بعثنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أخبرناه ما صنع .
وكان المسلمون إذا رجعوا من السفر بدؤا برسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فسلموا عليه فانصرفوا إلى رحالهم . فلما قدمت السرية سلموا على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقام احد الاربعة فقال : يا رسول الله ، ألم تر ان علي بن أبي طالب صنع
كذا وكذا . فأعرض عنه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، ثم قام الثاني وقال : مثل ذلك ، ثم الثالث فقال مقالته ، ثم قام الرابع فقال : مثل ما قالوا . فأقبل إليهم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم والغضب يبصر في وجهه ، فقال : ما تريدون من علي ؟ ان عليا مني وانا منه ، وهو ولي كل مؤمن بعدي ) .
imran bin haseen narrates that prophet prepared an army, and made ali ameer; ali got a slave girl after the war; people did not like it; and four decided that when they will meet prophet, they will speak against ali;
when muslim would return, they would meet prophet (it was their custom); and then they would leave for home; so when they retunred from war, they met prophet, and one of the four stood up; and said
o prophet, do you not see ali that he has done like this?
so prophet turned away his face from him;
another person stood up, and said the same
then third one stood up, and said the same;
then fourth one stood up, and said the same;
then prophet turned to them with anger on his face; and said

“what do you wish about ali? no doubt ali is from me, and i am from him; and he is wali of every momin after me”


[musnad ahmad vol 4, page 437 & vol 5 page 356, jami tirmidhi, vol 2 , mustadarak imam hakim, vol 3, page 110, maujam kabeer, tabarani,vol 8, page 127 , sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 373 ] .........


Now lets see which sholars have authenticated this narration and graded it sahih :

1- sheikh hamza zain said: isnaad sahih
[masnad imam ahmad, takhreej of ahmad shakir and zain, vol , page
2-hakim said: sahih on the condition of muslim but he did not write
[musatadark, vol 3, page 110]
3- dhabiagreed in his talkess
[same as before]
and he said in his tareekh e islam: sahih on the condition of muslim
[tareekh e islam, vol 11, page 71, under heading jafar bin suliman]
4-abu ishaq haweeni athari said: isnaad sahih, hakim said it is sahih as per condition of muslim and dhabi kept quiet, so it is like what he (hakim) said
[al jilli ba takhreej khasais-e-ali, page 77, narration 65]
5- albani said; isnaad sahih, narrators thiqa as per condition of muslim
following are the reference where albani authenticated it
a-zilal ul janna, ba takhreej kitab al sunnah, narration 1187;
b-takhreej of mishakt narration 6081;
c-silsila ahadeeth sahihiyya, narration 2223
d-tekhreej of tirmidhi, narration 3712
e-jami sagheer, narration 10535
6- shoaib arnwait said: isnaad qawi
he said this in the following books:-
a- al ihsan ba tarteeb sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 374
b-taleeq ala hadeeth fi Hamish sair alaam nabala, vol 8, page 199, foot note
7- tirmidhi said: hadeeth is hasan ghareeb, I do not know this hadeeth except from jafar bin suliman
[jami tirmidhi vol 5, page 296, kitab manaqib, baab ali ibn abi talib]
8-ibn haban: sahih
[sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 373]
9- sahih as per ibn jurair as mentioned by mutaqqi hindi in his kanz ul amal
[kanz ul amal, vol 13, page 142, narration 36444]
10- salih shami said: narrated by ibn abi sheebah, and it is sahih from imran
[sabl ul huda wa rashhad, vol 11, page 296]
11- sayooti said: ibn abi sheebah narrated from imran and it sahih
[jama ul jawamii, vol 1, narration 14498]
sayooti said hasan ghareeb
[jama ul jawamii, vol 7, page 573, narration 18829]
12- baghwi mentioned it in the hasan category in manaqib ali in his masabeeh
[masabeeh us sunnah, baghwi, vol 3, page 172]
13- ibn abi sheebah said it is sahih as mentioned by sayooti in his book
[al qaul al jalli fi manaqib ali, page 60]
14- ibn hajar asqalani said: narrated by tirmidhi from imran with qawi (strong sanad)
[al asaba, vol 4, page 468, under heading ali ibn abi talib]
15- Hussein saleem asad said: narrators are narrators of sahih; ibn haban mentioned on the chain of abu yala
[musnad abu yala, vol 1, page 293, narration 355]
16- mohammad abdul mohsin alturki said: hadeeth is hasan for there is jafar bin suliman and he is sudooq (truthful)
[musnad abu daood tayalis, vol 2 , page 168 , narration 868]
17- wasi ullah bin mohammad abbass said: isnaad hasan
[fadail us sahaba, ahmad bin hanbal, vol 2, page 655, narration 1035; and vol 2, page 673, narration 1060; vol 2, page 709, narration 1104]
18- hafiz badakhsani mentioned it in nazl ul abrar, so it is sahih
[nazl ul abrar bema sihah manaqib ahlubait athar, page 54]



So this is a sahih tradition without any doubt .. Salafi Scholars like ALBANI are very strict in hadith science , yet it has been graded sahih by him on criteria of Muslim ...




That is your personal opinion only ...




My books ?? I was quoting from Sahih Bukhari ... Did you miss reading the most authentic book during your A levels ??




That`s good ...

Yeah what you just did was quote a Hadith that does not state Ali RAA to be the one to Lead the Muslims after the Holy Prophet. And does it matter man? Abu Bakr RAA and Umar RAA did a fine job. So we do not got complaints. Time has moved on, its been 1400 years. If you are stuck on an issue that has no real connotations in todays Islamic world, then I am not going to waste time. The scholars you listed, i could list just as many if not more that will side with the other perspective.

So no man, not going to fall for your schemes. Good luck to you, i dont care who was right or wrong 1400 years ago. Nor would i badmouth the ones who were with the Prophet through thick and thin and did not stick with him for power. Rest is between you and your maker, and i am pretty sure HE doesnt care about my opinions of political issues in Islam 1400 years ago.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yeah what you just did was quote a Hadith that does not state Ali RAA to be the one to Lead the Muslims after the Holy Prophet.

You asked for One Hadith , and I quoted one ..... And it does state that Ali is the Wali of every Muslim AFTER Muhammad (pbuh)

And does it matter man? Abu Bakr RAA and Umar RAA did a fine job. So we do not got complaints. Time has moved on, its been 1400 years. If you are stuck on an issue that has no real connotations in todays Islamic world, then I am not going to waste time. The scholars you listed, i could list just as many if not more that will side with the other perspective.

It really does not matter what happened 1400 years ago ... What Abu bakr or Umer or Ali did is none of our business ... But when some idiots try to bring back a thousand years old failed political system claiming that it is a perfect system , don`t you think they should be knowing that it was not a perfect system even back then ??

 

[Informant]

You asked for One Hadith , and I quoted one ..... And it does state that Ali is the Wali of every Muslim AFTER Muhammad (pbuh)




It really does not matter what happened 1400 years ago ... What Abu bakr or Umer or Ali did is none of our business ... But when some idiots try to bring back a thousand years old failed political system claiming that it is a perfect system , don`t you think they should be knowing that it was not a perfect system even back then ??

It isnt man, it was for their times and their times were simpler. Today's world has exponentially large issues. So that system fails by default.

That hadith still doesnt say he will be the outright leader after him. It could mean he is a learned one after the Holy Prophet. That hadith is well known but it is not concrete. The wordings are nor concrete. Your perspective thinks so, mine does not.

And Sharia in Pak has never been a reality and will never be a reality. Because crooks can lead a few, not the whole lot.

 

[FaujHistorian]

It isnt man, it was for their times and their times were simpler. Today's world has exponentially large issues. So that system fails by default.

That hadith still doesnt say he will be the outright leader after him. It could mean he is a learned one after the Holy Prophet. That hadith is well known but it is not concrete. The wordings are nor concrete. Your perspective thinks so, mine does not.

And Sharia in Pak has never been a reality and will never be a reality. Because crooks can lead a few, not the whole lot.

Yaar informant.

even though your nick is linked to information.

But

@Azlan Haider is one of the most "informed" person on this forum.

I think you two are saying similar things. You want to keep some parda on rahidoon, while Azlan is brutally honest.

His point that Khalifah system failed even during Rashidoon can be validated using historical facts, instability, squabbling, and infighting among them.

Peace

 

[M. Sarmad]

That hadith still doesnt say he will be the outright leader after him. It could mean he is a learned one after the Holy Prophet. That hadith is well known but it is not concrete. The wordings are nor concrete. Your perspective thinks so, mine does not.

This is not the only Hadith which says so ... it is supported by other Ahadith/history texts as well ... But what convinces me is a very simple fact ... there is a consensus among Ahlussunnah scholars that Ali r.a could not lie , (he was purified by none but Allah himself) ... And if we read Bukhari , we come to know that Ali r.a did claim Khilafah for himself on basis of kinship to prophet (pbuh) [and his direct will]... Abu Bakar r.a never claimed that the prophet wanted him to be the leader of Muslims , neither did Umer r.a .....

Today's world has exponentially large issues. So that system fails by default.

true

 

[FaujHistorian]

It was "Lang" not "Lung" ... Lang is persian word that mean "cripple"

even now , all Iranian historian know him as Taymour Lang ...

Agha

you are nitpicking obviously.

Roman alphabets of a and u can be used to pronounce the word for "cripple".

@Irfan Baloch is correct as well.

While me and hype enjoy a pleasant barbecue with the ladies close by.

Thurki!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

It was "Lang" not "Lung" ... Lang is persian word that mean "cripple"

even now , all Iranian historian know him as Taymour Lang ...

thanks for spelling but thats how we say it in urdu... lung as in the body part.
lungra is the urdu word for someone who has a pegged leg or fault in one leg.


Taymour didnt like to be called that .. and his favorite past time when he was not doing anything was getting people executed for no reason and when he was busy he was normally having people massacred en masse
one blood thirsty SOB hope he enjoys his company with Hitler, Sadam , Osama and Stalin in his afterlife

برنا ) احمد بن شعيب ، قال : اخبرنا قتيبة بن سعيد ، قال : حدثنا جعفر يعني ابن سليمان ، عن يزيد ، عن مطرف بن عبد الله ، عن عمران بن ح??صين قال : جهز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم جيشا واستعمل عليهم علي بن أبي طالب ، فمضى في السرية فأصاب جارية فأنكروا عليه ، وتعاقد اربعة من اصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إذا بعثنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أخبرناه ما صنع .
وكان المسلمون إذا رجعوا من السفر بدؤا برسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فسلموا عليه فانصرفوا إلى رحالهم . فلما قدمت السرية سلموا على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقام احد الاربعة فقال : يا رسول الله ، ألم تر ان علي بن أبي طالب صنع
كذا وكذا . فأعرض عنه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، ثم قام الثاني وقال : مثل ذلك ، ثم الثالث فقال مقالته ، ثم قام الرابع فقال : مثل ما قالوا . فأقبل إليهم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم والغضب يبصر في وجهه ، فقال : ما تريدون من علي ؟ ان عليا مني وانا منه ، وهو ولي كل مؤمن بعدي ) .
imran bin haseen narrates that prophet prepared an army, and made ali ameer; ali got a slave girl after the war; people did not like it; and four decided that when they will meet prophet, they will speak against ali;
when muslim would return, they would meet prophet (it was their custom); and then they would leave for home; so when they retunred from war, they met prophet, and one of the four stood up; and said
o prophet, do you not see ali that he has done like this?
so prophet turned away his face from him;
another person stood up, and said the same
then third one stood up, and said the same;
then fourth one stood up, and said the same;
then prophet turned to them with anger on his face; and said

“what do you wish about ali? no doubt ali is from me, and i am from him; and he is wali of every momin after me”

[musnad ahmad vol 4, page 437 & vol 5 page 356, jami tirmidhi, vol 2 , mustadarak imam hakim, vol 3, page 110, maujam kabeer, tabarani,vol 8, page 127 , sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 373 ] .........


Now lets see which sholars have authenticated this narration and graded it sahih :

1- sheikh hamza zain said: isnaad sahih
[masnad imam ahmad, takhreej of ahmad shakir and zain, vol , page
2-hakim said: sahih on the condition of muslim but he did not write
[musatadark, vol 3, page 110]
3- dhabiagreed in his talkess
[same as before]
and he said in his tareekh e islam: sahih on the condition of muslim
[tareekh e islam, vol 11, page 71, under heading jafar bin suliman]
4-abu ishaq haweeni athari said: isnaad sahih, hakim said it is sahih as per condition of muslim and dhabi kept quiet, so it is like what he (hakim) said
[al jilli ba takhreej khasais-e-ali, page 77, narration 65]
5- albani said; isnaad sahih, narrators thiqa as per condition of muslim
following are the reference where albani authenticated it
a-zilal ul janna, ba takhreej kitab al sunnah, narration 1187;
b-takhreej of mishakt narration 6081;
c-silsila ahadeeth sahihiyya, narration 2223
d-tekhreej of tirmidhi, narration 3712
e-jami sagheer, narration 10535
6- shoaib arnwait said: isnaad qawi
he said this in the following books:-
a- al ihsan ba tarteeb sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 374
b-taleeq ala hadeeth fi Hamish sair alaam nabala, vol 8, page 199, foot note
7- tirmidhi said: hadeeth is hasan ghareeb, I do not know this hadeeth except from jafar bin suliman
[jami tirmidhi vol 5, page 296, kitab manaqib, baab ali ibn abi talib]
8-ibn haban: sahih
[sahih ibn haban, vol 15, page 373]
9- sahih as per ibn jurair as mentioned by mutaqqi hindi in his kanz ul amal
[kanz ul amal, vol 13, page 142, narration 36444]
10- salih shami said: narrated by ibn abi sheebah, and it is sahih from imran
[sabl ul huda wa rashhad, vol 11, page 296]
11- sayooti said: ibn abi sheebah narrated from imran and it sahih
[jama ul jawamii, vol 1, narration 14498]
sayooti said hasan ghareeb
[jama ul jawamii, vol 7, page 573, narration 18829]
12- baghwi mentioned it in the hasan category in manaqib ali in his masabeeh
[masabeeh us sunnah, baghwi, vol 3, page 172]
13- ibn abi sheebah said it is sahih as mentioned by sayooti in his book
[al qaul al jalli fi manaqib ali, page 60]
14- ibn hajar asqalani said: narrated by tirmidhi from imran with qawi (strong sanad)
[al asaba, vol 4, page 468, under heading ali ibn abi talib]
15- Hussein saleem asad said: narrators are narrators of sahih; ibn haban mentioned on the chain of abu yala
[musnad abu yala, vol 1, page 293, narration 355]
16- mohammad abdul mohsin alturki said: hadeeth is hasan for there is jafar bin suliman and he is sudooq (truthful)
[musnad abu daood tayalis, vol 2 , page 168 , narration 868]
17- wasi ullah bin mohammad abbass said: isnaad hasan
[fadail us sahaba, ahmad bin hanbal, vol 2, page 655, narration 1035; and vol 2, page 673, narration 1060; vol 2, page 709, narration 1104]
18- hafiz badakhsani mentioned it in nazl ul abrar, so it is sahih
[nazl ul abrar bema sihah manaqib ahlubait athar, page 54]



So this is a sahih tradition without any doubt .. Salafi Scholars like ALBANI are very strict in hadith science , yet it has been graded sahih by him on criteria of Muslim ...

My books ?? I was quoting from Sahih Bukhari ... Did you not read the "most authentic book on Islam" during your A levels ??




That`s good ...

give it a rest

just like Hazrat Ali R.A did
what has happened cant be undone.


for every single hadith you will bring .. someone will bring 5 against your argument.

get out of the past now. talk about how we can save ourselves and our faith and our lives from a fiend that has unbound thirst for the blood of the innocents who has fatwas to justify its mass murders, cannibalism, rape and plundering. yes I am talking about ISIS, FSA, Al Qaeda and Taliban that have made Islam the world most hated , loathed , ridiculed and feared religion of all time

bickering over who was the ruler of the Muslims after Prophet Muhammad PBUH will get you nothing but ridicule

 

[dravidianhero]

Make up your mind yaar.

Are you scared for your kids
or NOT?

First you say you are scared didn't you.
Now you run the other way.

How about having a cup of tea instead of yelling Bozo, hindu, muslim, you me.

Why name calling

Doesn't suit you. Not at all.

You are so cool mate.are you like this in ur real life too?

 

[Informant]

Yaar informant.

even though your nick is linked to information.

But

@Azlan Haider is one of the most "informed" person on this forum.

I think you two are saying similar things. You want to keep some parda on rahidoon, while Azlan is brutally honest.

His point that Khalifah system failed even during Rashidoon can be validated using historical facts, instability, squabbling, and infighting among them.

Peace

Caliphate wasnt perfect but it did result in the spread of Islam from mere MAdina to Europe, so it would be wrong to say it did not work. But the reason it failed because it did not assimilate the complexities that modern times brought.

I dont care what happened 1400 years ago, we have One God and the Holy Prophet being the last. Whats in between is his issue with Allah. And so is the case with me.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are so cool mate.are you like this in ur real life too?

Shall I say I end up drinking lot of chai :

And I don't mind friendly banter either.

I guess some of us take the politics too seriously.

Caliphate wasnt perfect but it did result in the spread of Islam from mere MAdina to Europe,.

Not true for Khalifa Rashideen period.

 

[rockstar08]

who will be khalifa ? " Qazi hussain "