90 MMRCA deal and probable winner

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Rafale is a worm hole . Nothing will come out of it . Finger crossed for 36+18 if at all it happens . Our IAF not satisfied with Su35 true but we are interested interested interested in full stealth variant of the jet with internal bay . Since our enemy will posses more or less same capabilities it better to have completely different platform . Security of nation comes before all including logistics nightmare as some members pointed . We will have sufficient facilities to maintain of we choose either of the three .

@ACE OF THE AIR

Stealth aircraft would not come till 2025... This is the real estimations because the US would not sell IAF F-35's as this is going to tip the balance of power with Pakistan. USA would consider that Pakistan might became hostile if such a deal is signed and this might also dwindle her influence. If Pakistan some how manages to get 5th Gen aircraft then the thing would be very different.

Inducting two or more new types of aircraft over a period of lets say 10-20 years would considerably limit the strength and capabilities of IAF (Tough most members would deny this and even rate me negatively). In the same period many other platforms would be requiring replacement or upgrades hence a nightmare situation.

What IAF and GOI decide today would bare fruits or not would be clear if there is no agreement this year. The only companies that can avail these are Dassult hence they have raised the price.

 

[he-man]

Stealth aircraft would not come till 2025

Pakfa prototypes will start arriving in 2017 to india,,,production will start post 2020.Thats happening.

 

[Echo_419]

90 MMRCA deal and probable winner.

It's no secret that India canceled multi billion dollars 126 MMRCA deal by ordering 36 rafale directly from France . So the race for rest of the 90 MMRCA heated up. Reason being more or less 20 billion$ up for grab. Fight is again intensified from all sides via diplomatic channels , print media , flaming articles about speculations etc . But my question is which one should be selected and which one is good for our Indian Airforce keeping our potential threat in mind which are might sukois with China and their J10B.

Probable contenders are : Rafale , Gripin NG , Euro fighter , mig 35 , F18 but surprise contender could be su35 as reported by some Russian sources.Since we already tested all these fighters in detail there won't be any further delays for testing in Indian conditions.

Speculative : Why new MMRCA will favour either EF typoon or Su35S . Both have their pros and cons .

Euro Fighter's (EF) case : During the previous MMRCA deal two fighters were finalised .EF and rafale . For some weird reason Rafale was brought back into the race and won tender as lowest bidder among these two . But we all know what happened next as the price quoted by rafale saw cost escalation in actual expenditure and lots of problem with ToT which is the reason for scrapping. The second lowest bidder EF for long pushing for more vibrant ToT and flexible pricing, also offered faster delivery too. PM Modi's visit to Germany have strengthen the hope for EF .

Interesting fact that the new tender for 90 MMRCA comes at a time when Indian airforce Su30MKI participating in an exercise against EF .Surprised many. This is the coolest and closest opportunity for India to valuate EF capabilities against Sukoi 30s. It's future rivals if selected.

Su35S case : India operated Russian fighters for many decades. Latest version are the Mighty sukoi MKIs which is considered the best among the world.MKIs are one of a kind fighter in its family .Upgraded to Indian Airforce' s high standard and requirements. New MMRCA would open up doors for Su35s in 90 fighter jet competition . Since MKI already produced at home in India under ToT it makes sense for both the countries.India is looking to upgrade MKI to super sukois standard.So ordering current variant will delay our upgrade programme as another 90 have to be enhanced. Instead India could buy Su35 under same format of MKI .That is with upgraded avionics and other new features. Su35S - known as UFO fighters by western media .The aircraft is sleek , neat , mean ,stealthy 4++ generation definitely the best.Its reduced RCS and updated with new weapon systems. Only drawbacks are its passive radar as Indian Airforce want AESA radar which will improve capabilities of an aircraft in many folds. India also concerned about putting all eggs in one basket (Russia). But it dont matter once you have well established manufacturing base with the country. Because India already operates large number of Russian jets and Future Generations Fighter Aircraft 5th gen is also planned.So Putting all baskets won't be an issue here. Russians are more trustable than the EU or the Americans. That's said Sukois do have problems with availability which is just above 50% . Efforts been made to improve . It fuel guzzling engines which are more prone to dust particles in runways (among others) are also planned for an upgrade with new more economical engine optimisation .

Recently Russian ambassador hinted about secret testing taking/taken place in India for the last 2 years. Russian sources are the only one who accurately predicted the scraping of old MMRCA deal while things were going on track. The report said Indian Airforce is already in talks with Russia for Improved variant of Su35 called Su35S with More air to ground capabilities with renewed EW suit for Multi role and low level flying , AESA radar , Improved Engines , more stealthy etc among few . Interesting point being made is that these UPGRADES actually more or less same planned for the Super sukois upgrades .IAF planned to upgrade 272 sukois into 4++ stealth fighter in fue course of time.

EF vs su35 :

Since we heard it from horse's mouth Gripin is out of our wish list , Rafale stuck with price and ToT negotiation loop which we don't want to get into. Mig35 will be a huge risk with many shortfall while development , Americans jets always comes with strings attached . So my predictions are for EF or Su35S .

Which one will you chose ? For that we need to understand our future threat or even present threat we will fight . J10B J11D su27 and Su30Mkk . Chinese are already registered their trademark in the making of Su30 family as if they invented it. They understood every aspect of this fighter .So edge we posses is very thin against Chinese airforce. Same goes for china too .Indian sukois are more superior to theirs .Whole point for MMRCA is to have offensive capacity against Chinese . This is were EF comes into play . EF is the most advanced and most stealthy 4th gen fighter as of today.These jets are more stealthy than Rafale .And Rafale are much more stealthily than sukois. With 90 new EF IAF will posses amazing and powerful capabilities in whole of Asia.More than that we will have new tactics to take on Chinese flankers. BVR is one of the most important aspect of Destroying the enemy and own survival .Shoot and scoot is achieved only with Spead , Advanced Avionics , Stealth and weapon system which comes in handy with EF.

Rafale is also another favourite choice of our IAF as as we already saw what Mirages are capable of doing things more efficiently than other jets . 50 upgraded mirages + 36 Rafale will be enough for precision bombing and taking out enemy strategic assets while securing skies . While 36 being negotiated is common sense to have provision for additional 18 or 1 squadron. So 50 Mirage 2000I and 50 Rafale will be a dream team. And these jets are costly because of their amazing availability. So I think 50:50 is a fair numbers for any airforce. So we should get deal for the EF keeping future war tactics in mind. BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters

With both sukois and EF our Air to Air capabilities will give tremendous advantages against Chinese airforce .

I vote for EF only if we get better deal as promised by UK and Germany. Full ToT or more than enough To. If If not If not we If not we can easily get Su35S and more MKI to overcome shortage.

No plans for such a tender

 

[GURU DUTT]

90 MMRCA deal and probable winner.

It's no secret that India canceled multi billion dollars 126 MMRCA deal by ordering 36 rafale directly from France . So the race for rest of the 90 MMRCA heated up. Reason being more or less 20 billion$ up for grab. Fight is again intensified from all sides via diplomatic channels , print media , flaming articles about speculations etc . But my question is which one should be selected and which one is good for our Indian Airforce keeping our potential threat in mind which are might sukois with China and their J10B.

Probable contenders are : Rafale , Gripin NG , Euro fighter , mig 35 , F18 but surprise contender could be su35 as reported by some Russian sources.Since we already tested all these fighters in detail there won't be any further delays for testing in Indian conditions.

Speculative : Why new MMRCA will favour either EF typoon or Su35S . Both have their pros and cons .

Euro Fighter's (EF) case : During the previous MMRCA deal two fighters were finalised .EF and rafale . For some weird reason Rafale was brought back into the race and won tender as lowest bidder among these two . But we all know what happened next as the price quoted by rafale saw cost escalation in actual expenditure and lots of problem with ToT which is the reason for scrapping. The second lowest bidder EF for long pushing for more vibrant ToT and flexible pricing, also offered faster delivery too. PM Modi's visit to Germany have strengthen the hope for EF .

Interesting fact that the new tender for 90 MMRCA comes at a time when Indian airforce Su30MKI participating in an exercise against EF .Surprised many. This is the coolest and closest opportunity for India to valuate EF capabilities against Sukoi 30s. It's future rivals if selected.

Su35S case : India operated Russian fighters for many decades. Latest version are the Mighty sukoi MKIs which is considered the best among the world.MKIs are one of a kind fighter in its family .Upgraded to Indian Airforce' s high standard and requirements. New MMRCA would open up doors for Su35s in 90 fighter jet competition . Since MKI already produced at home in India under ToT it makes sense for both the countries.India is looking to upgrade MKI to super sukois standard.So ordering current variant will delay our upgrade programme as another 90 have to be enhanced. Instead India could buy Su35 under same format of MKI .That is with upgraded avionics and other new features. Su35S - known as UFO fighters by western media .The aircraft is sleek , neat , mean ,stealthy 4++ generation definitely the best.Its reduced RCS and updated with new weapon systems. Only drawbacks are its passive radar as Indian Airforce want AESA radar which will improve capabilities of an aircraft in many folds. India also concerned about putting all eggs in one basket (Russia). But it dont matter once you have well established manufacturing base with the country. Because India already operates large number of Russian jets and Future Generations Fighter Aircraft 5th gen is also planned.So Putting all baskets won't be an issue here. Russians are more trustable than the EU or the Americans. That's said Sukois do have problems with availability which is just above 50% . Efforts been made to improve . It fuel guzzling engines which are more prone to dust particles in runways (among others) are also planned for an upgrade with new more economical engine optimisation .

Recently Russian ambassador hinted about secret testing taking/taken place in India for the last 2 years. Russian sources are the only one who accurately predicted the scraping of old MMRCA deal while things were going on track. The report said Indian Airforce is already in talks with Russia for Improved variant of Su35 called Su35S with More air to ground capabilities with renewed EW suit for Multi role and low level flying , AESA radar , Improved Engines , more stealthy etc among few . Interesting point being made is that these UPGRADES actually more or less same planned for the Super sukois upgrades .IAF planned to upgrade 272 sukois into 4++ stealth fighter in fue course of time.

EF vs su35 :

Since we heard it from horse's mouth Gripin is out of our wish list , Rafale stuck with price and ToT negotiation loop which we don't want to get into. Mig35 will be a huge risk with many shortfall while development , Americans jets always comes with strings attached . So my predictions are for EF or Su35S .

Which one will you chose ? For that we need to understand our future threat or even present threat we will fight . J10B J11D su27 and Su30Mkk . Chinese are already registered their trademark in the making of Su30 family as if they invented it. They understood every aspect of this fighter .So edge we posses is very thin against Chinese airforce. Same goes for china too .Indian sukois are more superior to theirs .Whole point for MMRCA is to have offensive capacity against Chinese . This is were EF comes into play . EF is the most advanced and most stealthy 4th gen fighter as of today.These jets are more stealthy than Rafale .And Rafale are much more stealthily than sukois. With 90 new EF IAF will posses amazing and powerful capabilities in whole of Asia.More than that we will have new tactics to take on Chinese flankers. BVR is one of the most important aspect of Destroying the enemy and own survival .Shoot and scoot is achieved only with Spead , Advanced Avionics , Stealth and weapon system which comes in handy with EF.

Rafale is also another favourite choice of our IAF as as we already saw what Mirages are capable of doing things more efficiently than other jets . 50 upgraded mirages + 36 Rafale will be enough for precision bombing and taking out enemy strategic assets while securing skies . While 36 being negotiated is common sense to have provision for additional 18 or 1 squadron. So 50 Mirage 2000I and 50 Rafale will be a dream team. And these jets are costly because of their amazing availability. So I think 50:50 is a fair numbers for any airforce. So we should get deal for the EF keeping future war tactics in mind. BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters

With both sukois and EF our Air to Air capabilities will give tremendous advantages against Chinese airforce .

I vote for EF only if we get better deal as promised by UK and Germany. Full ToT or more than enough To. If If not If not we If not we can easily get Su35S and more MKI to overcome shortage.

EF is way too expensive and spare parts will always be a problem but if EDAS prices it down and sweetens the deal with full TOT on engine and AESA then it just may get the deal for " 90 + jets" and fre4nchies shoot themselfs in foot yet again but if frenchies agree to the "actual international price" its rafale all the way but none can exclude Su-35

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

EF is way too expensive and spare parts will always be a problem but if EDAS prices it down and sweetens the deal with full TOT on engine and AESA then it just may get the deal for " 90 + jets" and fre4nchies shoot themselfs in foot yet again but if frenchies agree to the "actual international price" its rafale all the way but none can exclude Su-35

I forgot to mmention . We could get engine for our AMCA too if we select EF

Stealth aircraft would not come till 2025... This is the real estimations because the US would not sell IAF F-35's as this is going to tip the balance of power with Pakistan. USA would consider that Pakistan might became hostile if such a deal is signed and this might also dwindle her influence. If Pakistan some how manages to get 5th Gen aircraft then the thing would be very different.

Inducting two or more new types of aircraft over a period of lets say 10-20 years would considerably limit the strength and capabilities of IAF (Tough most members would deny this and even rate me negatively). In the same period many other platforms would be requiring replacement or upgrades hence a nightmare situation.

What IAF and GOI decide today would bare fruits or not would be clear if there is no agreement this year. The only companies that can avail these are Dassult hence they have raised the price.

We have 2 5th gen fighter programme on the card . So we need 4++ gen fighter . EF has lowest RCS among the three . And it brings lots more capabilities against Chinese J20 31 or J10 . Their j11D is well with in reach reach for our MKI . Not 2025 who told you that ? We will have our first FGFA by 2020-22 . F35 are big no no for IAF but very attractive for our Navy and Andaman tri command as F35 will have multiple purpose like LHD , Island and for special targets across the border

 

[GURU DUTT]

I forgot to mmention . We could get engine for our AMCA too if we select EF

well if criterea of selection MRCA is to get engine for AMCA then nothing is better than advanced super hornet F/A-18 E/F and no matter what all others boast of no one comes close to F/A-18E/F for its wepons package , AESA radar and EW suites and jammers + we might get a few "growlers" with it too and its a battle tested platform like no other and shares its current enigne with LCA MK2

thing is frenchies are getting too greedy and nurvous now as they know the new goverment is not going to sing there line for "kickbacks"+ they now have orders from egypt and potentialli from qutar and UAE and Brazil also

EF is great but has too many parties involved in it and its damn costly

so looks more like latest version of Su-35 with a few israeli and french avionicks coming to india

 

[he-man]

Main reason we went for rafale than ordering additional sukoi is to have different capabilities . You also ask they why we are ready to pay huge chuck of foreign reserves and our hard earned money for new fighter platform when we already have in house infrastructure for MKI . Our adversary is not Pakistan with their f16 and Jf17 but equally competitive sukois if china .

Prevention is better than cure . EF has better RCS and so enhanced advantages over Su35 in Beyond visual range tactics. EF with IAF will for credible deterrent against sukois and future J20 . Not to forget EF will get mature further in days to come .

On ur logistic nightmare : I seriously get irritated to this line . Those who talk about nightmare in operating different platform should know IAF don't operate only 1 or 2 fighters .We already operates Mirage , Jags , mig 27 , 21 , 29 , sukois in very large numbers.In future we tend to add Rafale , FGFA, AMCA, Tejas to name a few. In future we might opt for F35B for Island operation or for second wave of attacks once our runways are been targeted (Note : Don't jump the gun on F35. I just gave an example on how our planning will evolve! !! ) . So do you think our Airforce personals are fools that they don't think like you ? Come on get a break .

I am talking about su-35 with pakfa avionics.
Seriously dude,i know this shit.I know for a fact regular su-35 avionics are inferior to rafale or ef apart from radar probably.

so looks more like latest version of Su-35 with a few israeli and french avionicks coming to india

Pakfa avionics.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

I am talking about su-35 with pakfa avionics.
Seriously dude,i know this shit.I know for a fact regular su-35 avionics are inferior to rafale or ef apart from radar probably.



Pakfa avionics.

But with EF we get much needed boost in BVR . We will have well balanced air to air capabilites in both WVR (Sukois) and BVR (EF) .

 

[Sarjen29]

90 MMRCA deal and probable winner.

It's no secret that India canceled multi billion dollars 126 MMRCA deal by ordering 36 rafale directly from France . So the race for rest of the 90 MMRCA heated up. Reason being more or less 20 billion$ up for grab. Fight is again intensified from all sides via diplomatic channels , print media , flaming articles about speculations etc . But my question is which one should be selected and which one is good for our Indian Airforce keeping our potential threat in mind which are might sukois with China and their J10B.

Probable contenders are : Rafale , Gripin NG , Euro fighter , mig 35 , F18 but surprise contender could be su35 as reported by some Russian sources.Since we already tested all these fighters in detail there won't be any further delays for testing in Indian conditions.

Speculative : Why new MMRCA will favour either EF typoon or Su35S . Both have their pros and cons .

Euro Fighter's (EF) case : During the previous MMRCA deal two fighters were finalised .EF and rafale . For some weird reason Rafale was brought back into the race and won tender as lowest bidder among these two . But we all know what happened next as the price quoted by rafale saw cost escalation in actual expenditure and lots of problem with ToT which is the reason for scrapping. The second lowest bidder EF for long pushing for more vibrant ToT and flexible pricing, also offered faster delivery too. PM Modi's visit to Germany have strengthen the hope for EF .

Interesting fact that the new tender for 90 MMRCA comes at a time when Indian airforce Su30MKI participating in an exercise against EF .Surprised many. This is the coolest and closest opportunity for India to valuate EF capabilities against Sukoi 30s. It's future rivals if selected.

Su35S case : India operated Russian fighters for many decades. Latest version are the Mighty sukoi MKIs which is considered the best among the world.MKIs are one of a kind fighter in its family .Upgraded to Indian Airforce' s high standard and requirements. New MMRCA would open up doors for Su35s in 90 fighter jet competition . Since MKI already produced at home in India under ToT it makes sense for both the countries.India is looking to upgrade MKI to super sukois standard.So ordering current variant will delay our upgrade programme as another 90 have to be enhanced. Instead India could buy Su35 under same format of MKI .That is with upgraded avionics and other new features. Su35S - known as UFO fighters by western media .The aircraft is sleek , neat , mean ,stealthy 4++ generation definitely the best.Its reduced RCS and updated with new weapon systems. Only drawbacks are its passive radar as Indian Airforce want AESA radar which will improve capabilities of an aircraft in many folds. India also concerned about putting all eggs in one basket (Russia). But it dont matter once you have well established manufacturing base with the country. Because India already operates large number of Russian jets and Future Generations Fighter Aircraft 5th gen is also planned.So Putting all baskets won't be an issue here. Russians are more trustable than the EU or the Americans. That's said Sukois do have problems with availability which is just above 50% . Efforts been made to improve . It fuel guzzling engines which are more prone to dust particles in runways (among others) are also planned for an upgrade with new more economical engine optimisation .

Recently Russian ambassador hinted about secret testing taking/taken place in India for the last 2 years. Russian sources are the only one who accurately predicted the scraping of old MMRCA deal while things were going on track. The report said Indian Airforce is already in talks with Russia for Improved variant of Su35 called Su35S with More air to ground capabilities with renewed EW suit for Multi role and low level flying , AESA radar , Improved Engines , more stealthy etc among few . Interesting point being made is that these UPGRADES actually more or less same planned for the Super sukois upgrades .IAF planned to upgrade 272 sukois into 4++ stealth fighter in fue course of time.

EF vs su35 :

Since we heard it from horse's mouth Gripin is out of our wish list , Rafale stuck with price and ToT negotiation loop which we don't want to get into. Mig35 will be a huge risk with many shortfall while development , Americans jets always comes with strings attached . So my predictions are for EF or Su35S .

Which one will you chose ? For that we need to understand our future threat or even present threat we will fight . J10B J11D su27 and Su30Mkk . Chinese are already registered their trademark in the making of Su30 family as if they invented it. They understood every aspect of this fighter .So edge we posses is very thin against Chinese airforce. Same goes for china too .Indian sukois are more superior to theirs .Whole point for MMRCA is to have offensive capacity against Chinese . This is were EF comes into play . EF is the most advanced and most stealthy 4th gen fighter as of today.These jets are more stealthy than Rafale .And Rafale are much more stealthily than sukois. With 90 new EF IAF will posses amazing and powerful capabilities in whole of Asia.More than that we will have new tactics to take on Chinese flankers. BVR is one of the most important aspect of Destroying the enemy and own survival .Shoot and scoot is achieved only with Spead , Advanced Avionics , Stealth and weapon system which comes in handy with EF.

Rafale is also another favourite choice of our IAF as as we already saw what Mirages are capable of doing things more efficiently than other jets . 50 upgraded mirages + 36 Rafale will be enough for precision bombing and taking out enemy strategic assets while securing skies . While 36 being negotiated is common sense to have provision for additional 18 or 1 squadron. So 50 Mirage 2000I and 50 Rafale will be a dream team. And these jets are costly because of their amazing availability. So I think 50:50 is a fair numbers for any airforce. So we should get deal for the EF keeping future war tactics in mind. BVR and Stealth is the next level of Air combat with 5th generation fighters

With both sukois and EF our Air to Air capabilities will give tremendous advantages against Chinese airforce .

I vote for EF only if we get better deal as promised by UK and Germany. Full ToT or more than enough To. If If not If not we If not we can easily get Su35S and more MKI to overcome shortage.

Its not going to be any of them... What do you think after buying 36 Rafael INdia will buy new line of fighters and operate three different kind of Midium fighters???? Hell no.... Its going to be rafael

 

[he-man]

Its not going to be any of them... What do you think after buying 36 Rafael INdia will be new line of fighters and operate three different kind of Midium fighters???? Hell no.... Its going to be rafael

I don't really care but yeah most logical should be rafale only,,,why waste so much time and negotiate with so many countries when rafale is right now the best fighter??

For god's sake captor aesa is not even in production yet.

But with EF we get much needed boost in BVR . We will have well balanced air to air capabilites in both WVR (Sukois) and BVR (EF) .

We will get meteor with rafale too,,not to mention we will get to integrate newer missiles meant for pakfa with it.
Its not an issue.

 

[Sarjen29]

I don't really care but yeah most logical should be rafale only,,,why waste so much time and negotiate with so many countries when rafale is right now the best fighter??

For god's sake captor aesa is not even in production yet.

A fresh start. Because the last MMRCA deal was highjacked buy the french from the begining, they changed the rules of RFI of the MMRCA and the costs can't be changed so the negotiations fell dead end. new governemt can't do anything but continue the talk in a different manner from where UPA screw ups left, but the french didn't change their position.

Now the new gvernemnt has time to negotiate from the begining and will be careful about changing the rules and costs.. its a wise plan only the worry is time that's going to be wasted....

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

well if criterea of selection MRCA is to get engine for AMCA then nothing is better than advanced super hornet F/A-18 E/F and no matter what all others boast of no one comes close to F/A-18E/F for its wepons package , AESA radar and EW suites and jammers + we might get a few "growlers" with it too and its a battle tested platform like no other and shares its current enigne with LCA MK2

thing is frenchies are getting too greedy and nurvous now as they know the new goverment is not going to sing there line for "kickbacks"+ they now have orders from egypt and potentialli from qutar and UAE and Brazil also

EF is great but has too many parties involved in it and its damn costly

so looks more like latest version of Su-35 with a few israeli and french avionicks coming to india

F18 days are long gone . Persay if we sign deal in 2016 first jet will be out in 3 years are so . Nearly 2019/20 . And more over US can't sell any weapon systems without strings attached so we don't need it even even if offered . For It's engine we already under talks with GE for its extended variants of F414 . Which itself under serious negotiations problems . But hopes are high too. ToT is the road block . EF should use this chance push for a fair deal for both. If If they are really serious about it. Or else we should opt of Russian engines as tVD for amca already under development with Russia.

Holland will be careful of what he he does. Pressure will mount on him when India go for more EF or Su35S .They had very good opportunity they messed it already . It's high time we give tender for 90 mmrca .

I don't really care but yeah most logical should be rafale only,,,why waste so much time and negotiate with so many countries when rafale is right now the best fighter??

For god's sake captor aesa is not even in production yet.



We will get meteor with rafale too,,not to mention we will get to integrate newer missiles meant for pakfa with it.
Its not an issue.

It's all comes to who spot whom first . BUT missiles do get evolve in every part of the world . So we should focus focus on less RCS fighters for the future fleet .MMRCA is not for today but for tomorrow. So I strongly recommend EF over Rafale. And any way 50 Rafale will be equal to 70 Mmrca fighter in terms of availability and number of mission it can carry out . We have lots of options to choose for air to ground missions from jags to mig29 . But I feel feel we lack in BVR capabilities with our huge sukois. We need take a look at our A2A combat strategy . No way we could reduce MKI RCS even close to EF .

 

[he-man]

A fresh start. Because the last MMRCA deal was highjacked buy the french from the begining, they changed the rules of RFI of the MMRCA and the costs can't be changed so the negotiations fell dead end. new governemt can't do anything but continue the talk in a different manner from where UPA screw ups left, but the french didn't change their position.

Now the new gvernemnt has time to negotiate from the begining and will be careful about changing the rules and costs.. its a wise plan only the worry is time that's going to be wasted....

Let me tell u that we should not place too much focus on tot,just get the damn birds made.The only thing important is we get the radar codes to integrate the weapons of our choice and change the avionics if we want.

TOT will again be very very costly and we will not gain much as no nation will part with its key technologies.

F18 days are long gone . Persay if we sign deal in 2016 first jet will be out in 3 years are so . Nearly 2019/20 . And more over US can't sell any weapon systems without strings attached so we don't need it even even if offered . For It's engine we already under talks with GE for its extended variants of F414 . Which itself under serious negotiations problems . But hopes are high too. ToT is the road block . EF should use this chance push for a fair deal for both. If If they are really serious about it. Or else we should opt of Russian engines as tVD for amca already under development with Russia.

Holland will be careful of what he he does. Pressure will mount on him when India go for more EF or Su35S .They had very good opportunity they messed it already . It's high time we give tender for 90 mmrca .



It's all comes to who spot whom first . BUT missiles do get evolve in every part of the world . So we should focus focus on less RCS fighters for the future fleet .MMRCA is not for today but for tomorrow. So I strongly recommend EF over Rafale. And any way 50 Rafale will be equal to 70 Mmrca fighter in terms of availability and number of mission it can carry out . We have lots of options to choose for air to ground missions from jags to mig29 . But I feel feel we lack in BVR capabilities with our huge sukois. We need take a look at our A2A combat strategy . No way we could reduce MKI RCS even close to EF .

Who told u ef is superior to rafale in the first place??

Both spectra and aesa give rafale unique advantage vs ef.
Plus the rcs is not very different if sources are to be believed.

Not to mention ef has shitty a to g capabilities compared to the rafale.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Its not going to be any of them... What do you think after buying 36 Rafael INdia will buy new line of fighters and operate three different kind of Midium fighters???? Hell no.... Its going to be rafael

What do you think India should do if french want to be adamant on ToT , offset and pricing ? We should give in even it's a huge loss ? . As I said many times .36 deal will have additional clause for another 18 . Which was previously reported as 64 by some media . They calculated for three squadrons . But for Rafale 18 makes one sq . With mirages been upgraded both will serve the purpose of Air to Grounds

 

[Sarjen29]

Let me tell u that we should not place too much focus on tot,just get the damn birds made.The only thing important is we get the radar codes to integrate the weapons of our choice and change the avionics if we want.

TOT will again be very very costly and we will not gain much as no nation will part with its key technologies.

Why not pay the price now and secure the future???? See Government can go ahead with buying more rafales's under G2G deal, but Gov is very wise. we also need to think about how long are we going to keep on buying foreign fighters for our needs??? We don't have the capability develop everything but have the capability to buy certain level of them. So we use that option. MMRCA must include ToT, Without that there;s no way of going ahead with AMCA, this is the one of the reason why AMCA project is not head started.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Let me tell u that we should not place too much focus on tot,just get the damn birds made.The only thing important is we get the radar codes to integrate the weapons of our choice and change the avionics if we want.

TOT will again be very very costly and we will not gain much as no nation will part with its key technologies.



Who told u ef is superior to rafale in the first place??

Both spectra and aesa give rafale unique advantage vs ef.
Plus the rcs is not very different if sources are to be believed.

Not to mention ef has shitty a to g capabilities compared to the rafale.

What is RCS of EF and Raf as per ur source ? A2G for EF is a on going process and why do you belive they add A2G capabilities to EF ? A2A BVR is what we needed till fgfa arrives . That's some 6 years away .