3-year-old girl among two martyred in Indian firing along LoC

[masterchief_mirza]

regarding the main topic, we need to stop parroting to the world "we don't want escalation" and "we want peace" blah blah. Our passiveness gives confidence to our enemies that they can kill our kids at will. it is foolish to set an upper limit for ourselves and state that we don't want escalation because India clearly does want escalation. We should say "we will escalate our response until Hindustan desists from targeting civilians" or simply "all options remain on the table to thwart the enemy's potential to attack our civilians". We need to start rewriting the narrative.

The world knows our threats aren't mere rhetoric (balakot).

I am sick of hearing these vagina politicians whining "we want peace", "we don't wish to escalate". Better to stay silent.

I will repeat that. BETTER TO STAY SILENT ...than give your enemy carte Blanche.

Look at Israel. When their civilians die, they don't say "we want peace" or some variation therein. They say "we're coming for you" or they simply respond. I know the analogy isn't totally accurate. However, the language and posturing of our diplomats needs to change to either be more aggressive, or at least deliberately ambiguous e.g. "all options are on the table when it comes to protecting our citizens."

Now we did that in the Balakot episode. Our spokespeople read the correct script, and India have been doubting themselves in such scenarios ever since - because we performed well yes - but also because our narrative didn't limit our options for response. We kept them in full panic mode.

Why have we forgotten the lessons of balakot?

If in doubt about the impact of your words, say as little as possible.

 

[maithil]

RIP to dead and godspeed to injured ones.

Rumours circulating of Neelum Valley targeted and extensive damage.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Have you yourself read the detailed definition of Martyr in Islam? This word often comes with two concepts. One is "die for the cause of Allah" and other other is "die in Holly Struggle". Both are related. I doubt a 3-year-old struggles for anything during this unfortunate case and I don't see any evidence of "for the cause of Allah". Or maybe people just got themselves accustomed to slash the tag of "Allah" for anyone who lost his/her life by their perceived enemies. This type of careless treatment of a very serious religious concept among Muslims is what puzzles me.


I don't think Christians call those died in 9/11 martyrs. Nor do Buddhists call the same for civilian death in a conflict. Those are called "victims", not "martyrs". But both use the word "martyr" for those who actually struggled and paid with their lives in the cause of their religious belief.

You're plain wrong. One

Have you yourself read the detailed definition of Martyr in Islam? This word often comes with two concepts. One is "die for the cause of Allah" and other other is "die in Holly Struggle". Both are related. I doubt a 3-year-old struggles for anything during this unfortunate case and I don't see any evidence of "for the cause of Allah". Or maybe people just got themselves accustomed to slash the tag of "Allah" for anyone who lost his/her life by their perceived enemies. This type of careless treatment of a very serious religious concept among Muslims is what puzzles me.


I don't think Christians call those died in 9/11 martyrs. Nor do Buddhists call the same for civilian death in a conflict. Those are called "victims", not "martyrs". But both use the word "martyr" for those who actually struggled and paid with their lives in the cause of their religious belief.

You're derailing the thread. And you're wrong. Multiple sources call 9-11 deaths martyrs. It is originally a Christian term obviously. But it is a word that has been commandeered by all religions and even by atheists to describe a death of equivalent unjustifiable nature, e.g. death of an innocent children.

 

[YeBeWarned]

@Dubious do your trick in this thread thank you ..

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Name one source.

https://www.911memorial.org/node/941071

Martyrs of Manhattan top of Google search list.

Perhaps English isn't your first language and so you don't understand that many words that originally began with a restricted meaning (e.g. martyr meaning an unjustifiable death while practicing one's faith) are extrapolated over time to encompass broader range of meaning while remaining true to the original concept.

Atheists can be martyrs. Communists can be martyrs. Innocent victims who were minding their own business and not even paying attention to their religion or that of their attacker can be "martyrs" in the modern sense.

The press release is spot on that an innocent minor is a "martyr".

 

[Asimzranger]

Name one source.

The Quran, chapter 22 (Al-Hajj), verse 58–59:[9]

Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: Truly Allah is He Who bestows the best provision. Verily He will admit them to a place with which they shall be well pleased: for Allah is All-Knowing, Most Forbearing.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

I think your first language isn't English hence you don't grasp how words have evolved and continue to do so.

Martyrdom isn't exclusive to Christianity, or to Islam, or indeed to religion.

I trust this answers your questions. Please feel free to ask any native born English speaker regarding further such enquiries about basic etymology in the future. I am always available.

@Dubious do your trick in this thread thank you ..

Why? Let him prove his ignorance.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

The whole site has 5 references of this word, one of which is what you just quoted, which is just the name of a song. At the same time, the description says this: "A video dedicated to the victims of 9/11, So Their Recognition Will Not Be Confined to a Single September Day".

Yes, communists can be martyrs. I am from a communistic country. But I can also tell you that no communist calls the 3-year-old a martyr, no matter how he died. Being a martyr means there is an effort made and there is a life paid for it. The second half isn't sufficient. The first half is also critical. Calling someone who is just a victim as a martyr is a serious downplay of that effort as if being a martyr is so easy, all you need is that somone kills you, then whoever hates that someone will call you a martyr.


Since when a 3-year-old wandering out of his home is in the cause of Allah? If that is in the cause of Allah, then what is NOT in the cause of Allah?

Again, as you don't speak English as your first language, you cannot hope to grasp the evolution of the word "martyr" from its exclusive Christian roots.

Refer to this table from Wikipedia. It outlines the wide range of uses for the word "martyr".

Common features of stereotypical martyrdoms[7]
1. A hero A person of some renown who is devoted to a cause believed to be admirable.
2. Opposition People who oppose that cause.
3. Foreseeable risk The hero foresees action by opponents to harm him or her, because of his or her commitment to the cause.
4. Courage and Commitment The hero continues, despite knowing the risk, out of commitment to the cause.
5. Death The opponents kill the hero because of his or her commitment to the cause.
6. Audience response The hero's death is commemorated. People may label the hero explicitly as a martyr. Other people may in turn be inspired to pursue the same cause.


The case of an innocent girl bombed in shelling by an enemy state that opposes the politics of her home nation can easily satisfy one or two of those contexts.

What else is there to discuss here?

 

[Asimzranger]

The whole site has 5 references of this word, one of which is what you just quoted, which is just the name of a song. At the same time, the description says this: "A video dedicated to the victims of 9/11, So Their Recognition Will Not Be Confined to a Single September Day".

Yes, communists can be martyrs. I am from a communistic country. But I can also tell you that no communist calls the 3-year-old a martyr, no matter how he died. Being a martyr means there is an effort made and there is a life paid for it. The second half isn't sufficient. The first half is also critical. Calling someone who is just a victim as a martyr is a serious downplay of that effort as if being a martyr is so easy, all you need is that somone kills you, then whoever hates that someone will call you a martyr.


Since when a 3-year-old wandering out of his home is in the cause of Allah? If that is in the cause of Allah, then what is NOT in the cause of Allah?

Since you have difficulty understanding its better if you leave.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Why? Let him prove his ignorance.

I don't like Filthy people on this thread ... @Dubious @WebMaster kindly do us the favor .

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Being a martyr means there is an effort made and there is a life paid for it.

Not necessarily. In its wider context, it is very easy apply the principle of martyrdom in this case. She was doing what every child does, wandering about her home. She was innocent. She died because she dared to behave normally rather than hide. If a child does what children do and is killed by indiscriminate artillery fire from a savage political entity that seeks to deny her that right either by design or by default, that child is a martyr. There really is no question here. It isn't even about Islam - though interestingly Islamic definitions reflect the modern applied meaning more closely - it is simply about the modern meaning of the word "martyr" in the context as stated.

Since you have difficulty having a rational discussion, its better if you leave.


Which one or two?

2. Opposition People who oppose that cause.

She definitely fulfils this criterion as her normal childhood behaviour is opposing the attempt by Hindustan to force her to flee or hide or in some other way be *not* normal as a child.

Item 6 also.

With regards to item 6, it further supports the notion that victims of terrorism are martyrs. We often hear that such and such attack on a school or public place will "not stop us from living our lives".

The martyrdom of the victims makes survivors more determined to stand their ground against the attackers. The martyrdom has inspired them.

 

[Maarkhoor]

3-year-old girl among two martyred in Indian firing along LoC
Web Desk On Aug 27, 2019 Last Updated Aug 27, 2019

RAWALPINDI: Two civilians, including a three-year-old girl, were martyred and three others wounded when Indian troops resorted to firing from across the Line of Control (LoC) on Tuesday, ARY News reported.

Abdul Jalil, 45, and Nosheen, 3, were martyred as a result of unprovoked firing by Indian forces in the Nekrun Sector along the LoC, an Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) statement said.

“Indian troops resorted to unprovoked firing in the Nekrun Sector along the LoC, deliberately targeting civilians,” it said. “Three citizens also got injured while three houses got burnt.”

Indian troops’ frequent breach of ceasefire along the LoC has resulted in some 37 civilian casualties and injuries to over 150 this year.

But our peace loving P.M don't want nuclear war...he is fearing that he loose P.M seat after nuclear war.....

 

[Dubious]

The whole site has 5 references of this word, one of which is what you just quoted, which is just the name of a song. At the same time, the description says this: "A video dedicated to the victims of 9/11, So Their Recognition Will Not Be Confined to a Single September Day".

Yes, communists can be martyrs. I am from a communistic country. But I can also tell you that no communist calls the 3-year-old a martyr, no matter how he died. Being a martyr means there is an effort made and there is a life paid for it. The second half isn't sufficient. The first half is also critical. Calling someone who is just a victim as a martyr is a serious downplay of that effort as if being a martyr is so easy, all you need is that somone kills you, then whoever hates that someone will call you a martyr.


Since when a 3-year-old wandering out of his home is in the cause of Allah? If that is in the cause of Allah, then what is NOT in the cause of Allah?

Please dont troll...At least get a basic rudimentary concept of what you are talking about otherwise you are no better than a troll!

Please consider this your final warning!

 

[Kathin_Singh]

I'm looking for the time when not a single bullet need not be fired from both sides.

 

[The Eagle]

For that matter, which is not the subject here, search Islamic literature and read the detailed definition of Martyr in Islam. Also, do not take anything in isolated manner but must hold a proper search & detailed read.

This post was good enough to understand and discontinue but intention been proven lately. Religious debate is not allowed and it didn't need any reminder. Time to follow rules properly.

Regards,