3 Force modernization drive: Tk 12, 985 crore proposed as defence budget

[PlanetSoldier]

We'll just wait and see. The MBT-2000 is confirmed and expected to arrive in 2013. Rest like the Flankers are all speculations for now.

And historically, it is the AL that spends more on the military than BNP does. This is done to give the military an equal footing given that the military never trusted the AL to begin with.

Any evidence about your claim? AL during 72-75 era had a plan to reduce armed forces to a type like Rakhkhi Bahini. Please don't bring the example of Ulsan class frigate (BNS Bangabondhu) and half squadron of Mig-29 procured during their last tenure. So far I know that frigate was completely financed by Saudi govt. and one brand new frigate like Ulsan class for a country like Bangladesh was not finalized within 2 years of their term starting from 96 (hope one known guy will shed light on this). It probably started no less than 4-8 years ago meaning either at the end of Ershad era or during BNP term (91-95). Hasina just continued that and even had a share (later frigate corruption case) on that money donated by Saudi govt. The Mig-29 purchase was a big corruption of Hasina last term. And who knows maybe it was another decision of previous BNP govt. which they switched to Russia buying Migs like BNP govt. again stopped the Mig deal next term in 01-06 .

Whatever the procurement was, within 90 BD did have an organized armed forces which was Zia/Ershad contribution and it was not politicized like today. There was a saying in Army during Ershad era regarding procurement that "if you need new toys, let me (Ershad) know...it'll be managed". This is why within the size of then economy our armed forces were well managed.

 

[TopCat]

Any evidence about your claim? AL during 72-75 era had a plan to reduce armed forces to a type like Rakhkhi Bahini. Please don't bring the example of Ulsan class frigate (BNS Bangabondhu) and half squadron of Mig-29 procured during their last tenure. So far I know that frigate was completely financed by Saudi govt. and one brand new frigate like Ulsan class for a country like Bangladesh was not finalized within 2 years of their term starting from 96. It probably started no less than 4-8 years ago meaning either at the end of Ershad era or during BNP term (91-95). Hasina just continued that and even had a share (later frigate corruption case) on that money donated by Saudi govt. The Mig-29 purchase was a big corruption of Hasina last term. And who knows maybe it was another decision of previous BNP govt. which they switched to Russia buying Migs like BNP govt. again stopped the Mig deal next term in 01-06 .

Whatever the procurement was, within 90 BD did have an organized armed forces which was Zia/Ershad contribution and it was not politicized like today. There was a saying in Army during Ershad era regarding procurement that "if you need new toys, let me (Ershad) know...it'll be managed". This is why within the size of then economy our armed forces were well managed.

Read 1974 defense policy. BD yet to acquire the requisite manpower which were mentioned in 1974 policy. Stop bullcrapping.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

I dont think so. The procurement plans published in the newspapers(not tabloid ones) and shown in military open house all came true.

Submarine is in its tentative stage. Bangladesh navy members received training in turkey this year on how to operate one.

The corvettes are actually our LPCs. The first one was laid down about a fortnight ago and the second one is going to be laid down soon

As far as i as i know the frigate purchase agreement the groundwork of which was laid during the visit of prime minister Sheikh Hasina to China in March 2010. As reported in newspaper, we will be using 2012-2013 and 2016-2017 to buy them.

Our defence doctorine isnt india centric. Furthermore we are building up our force slowly, our economy does not allow us to buy lot of stuff at one go

Hasina knows military is the only establishment that can take her down. Furthermore, i think these defence procurements will continue with the BNP era. BNP made a lot of noise when BNS bangabandhu and the migs were bought, but are not attacking AL for their ambitious plan for the armed forces mainly because of the burmese standoff. Furthermore with the verdict of the sea boundaries coming soon and prospect of finding oil and gas, i dont think either of the ladies would want to pi$$ of the armed forces by giving them weapons

Last BNP govt. planned to add submarine within 2009 in BN and this govt. made it within 2019....not a significant info to mention. So far I know BN members started to receive submarine training abroad long ago probably back in 97/98, we didn't start to operate one yet.

The ambitious plan shown by Forces Goal 2030 was actually a draft drawn by BNP govt. in 2005/06 as Forces Goal 2020, later BAL finalized the draft as Forces Goal 2030. One main reason they didn't cancel is probably the BDR carnage...they have to please military heads. Another thing is it's been already set adding 10 years more, instead of 2020 it's now 2030. Within 2030 our plan should be to add another wing in our armed forces which is Strategic Force. Being a part of South Asia we can't survive without that. One trick to be noted is the procurement plans...like $ 1 bln deal with Russia and similar ones with US and China. Simply within 10/12 years we'd buy equipments from these nations amounting $ 3 bln or more than that, now signing pact it shows that amount at a time other than this it's all the same. And unfortunately if BNP comes next term, they'll not continue it at least with Russia which is very unfortunate for our nation.

You and some other Bangladeshi hold a great view over our friends and foes . While Burma never caused any problem towards the sovereignty of the country Bangladesh, you guys try to show Burma as our main enemy whereas on the other front the big friend has been directly attacking our sovereignty relentlessly. What do you mean by Burmese standoff? Burma has many issues, that are within their boundary. Anything we share with india is now at stake be it water, land. Just try to be neutral when you show your view about something, it doesn't matter if you are personally biased to any side. I may have support for any part but when I'm showing my view to others, it's my responsibility to show the true picture instead of biased ones.

 

[kobiraaz]

Any evidence about your claim? AL during 72-75 era had a plan to reduce armed forces to a type like Rakhkhi Bahini. Please don't bring the example of Ulsan class frigate (BNS Bangabondhu) and half squadron of Mig-29 procured during their last tenure. So far I know that frigate was completely financed by Saudi govt. and one brand new frigate like Ulsan class for a country like Bangladesh was not finalized within 2 years of their term starting from 96 (hope one known guy will shed light on this). It probably started no less than 4-8 years ago meaning either at the end of Ershad era or during BNP term (91-95). Hasina just continued that and even had a share (later frigate corruption case) on that money donated by Saudi govt. The Mig-29 purchase was a big corruption of Hasina last term. And who knows maybe it was another decision of previous BNP govt. which they switched to Russia buying Migs like BNP govt. again stopped the Mig deal next term in 01-06 .

Whatever the procurement was, within 90 BD did have an organized armed forces which was Zia/Ershad contribution and it was not politicized like today. There was a saying in Army during Ershad era regarding procurement that "if you need new toys, let me (Ershad) know...it'll be managed". This is why within the size of then economy our armed forces were well managed.

So the frigate was financed by KSA? You sure?

 

[PlanetSoldier]

So the frigate was financed by KSA? You sure?

One Navy official told me then, I'm not sure...this is why I requested to shed light by anyone who knows about this.

Ohh...finally got a link which says it was financed by Saudi govt., man you ruined my hours :

http://wwwdotdefencetalkdotcom/forums/navy-maritime/bangladesh-ulsan-frigate-5493/

Replace *** with ., couldn't paste the perfect link so this workaround .

 

[Avisheik]

Last BNP govt. planned to add submarine within 2009 in BN and this govt. made it within 2019....not a significant info to mention. So far I know BN members started to receive submarine training abroad long ago probably back in 97/98, we didn't start to operate one yet.

The ambitious plan shown by Forces Goal 2030 was actually a draft drawn by BNP govt. in 2005/06 as Forces Goal 2020, later BAL finalized the draft as Forces Goal 2030. One main reason they didn't cancel is probably the BDR carnage...they have to please military heads. Another thing is it's been already set adding 10 years more, instead of 2020 it's now 2030. Within 2030 our plan should be to add another wing in our armed forces which is Strategic Force. Being a part of South Asia we can't survive without that. One trick to be noted is the procurement plans...like $ 1 bln deal with Russia and similar ones with US and China. Simply within 10/12 years we'd buy equipments from these nations amounting $ 3 bln or more than that, now signing pact it shows that amount at a time other than this it's all the same. And unfortunately if BNP comes next term, they'll not continue it at least with Russia which is very unfortunate for our nation.

You and some other Bangladeshi hold a great view over our friends and foes . While Burma never caused any problem towards the sovereignty of the country Bangladesh, you guys try to show Burma as our main enemy whereas on the other front the big friend has been directly attacking our sovereignty relentlessly. What do you mean by Burmese standoff? Burma has many issues, that are within their boundary. Anything we share with india is now at stake be it water, land. Just try to be neutral when you show your view about something, it doesn't matter if you are personally biased to any side. I may have support for any part but when I'm showing my view to others, it's my responsibility to show the true picture instead of biased ones.

The plan that they planned only reached up to the initial stages plus they only mentioned they planned to include submarine but did not mention when they will join us(but if you have conflicting source feel free to post it). As far as i know, BN members did not recieve any trainings with submarines in 97/98, they were most probably visiting and inspecting them they did not recieve any formal training. Serious training only occurred recently.

BNP drew the draft, AL finalised and is currently carrying out the draft and hopefully when BNP comes into power they will carry on with the plans.
According to you, Hasina kept the 2030 plans to keep military people happy. Isnt that what zabaniya mentioned that hasina buys more military stuff than khaleda to keep the military happy. Hasina will never do anything to harm her political career and cancelling armed forces goal is downright suicidal for her carnage or no carnage.
BNP will continue with the russian weapons, too much important russian investment in our country, for example, they are helping us with our nuclear power station. BNP wont try to agitate the ruskies. Furthermore we are exploring fuel rich bay of bengal, they will have to spend more on defence to protect our assets



Try to be nuetral? You took my words out of context, distorted them and tried to pass me off as being biased to one side. This is what i wrote

Hasina knows military is the only establishment that can take her down. Furthermore, i think these defence procurements will continue with the BNP era. BNP made a lot of noise when BNS bangabandhu and the migs were bought, but are not attacking AL for their ambitious plan for the armed forces mainly because of the burmese standoff. Furthermore with the verdict of the sea boundaries coming soon and prospect of finding oil and gas, i dont think either of the ladies would want to pi$$ of the armed forces by not giving them weapons

Since when i tried to show burma as our main enemy? I stated the fact that big budget defence procurements are not being scorned upon by the opposition party as well as the common people after the burmese standoff in 2008 as we all realised that we were seriously under equipped.
This is a episode was a reflection of the pathetic weapons our military was using and modernisation was needed.

As for the bold part in your reply, wasnt it the jist of that whole paragraph that i wrote. We are buying frigates to grow some muscles before the verdict with india comes out, thus both the women will try to provide the weapons to the military for deterrence.

Next time please analyse what i wrote instead of replying me with just a glance of what i wrote

 

[Luffy 500]

One Navy official told me then, I'm not sure...this is why I requested to shed light by anyone who knows about this.

Ohh...finally got a link which says it was financed by Saudi govt., man you ruined my hours :

http://wwwdotdefencetalkdotcom/forums/navy-maritime/bangladesh-ulsan-frigate-5493/

Replace *** with ., couldn't paste the perfect link so this workaround .

Thanks for the info on Ulsan class purchase. And about the awami corruption in defence deals , we don't need to go any further than the russian mig purchase. And not to forget that these clowns also ripped off massive chunks of money from the humanitarian aid given by KSA & others during the sidr disaster. So anything is possible by them.

Btw the link is not working for some reason.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

Thanks for the info on Ulsan class purchase. And about the awami corruption in defence deals , we don't need to go any further than the russian mig purchase. And not to forget that these clowns also ripped off massive chunks of money from the humanitarian aid given by KSA & others during the sidr disaster. So anything is possible by them.

Btw the link is not working for some reason.

replace the text dots with real . , it'll work....this forum doesn't allow some link possibly forum link so I used text dots there. Just copy the link and replace dots with .

 

[Zabaniyah]

Any evidence about your claim?

Look up history. It is always the AL that procures more heavy equipment compared to the BNP.

AL during 72-75 era had a plan to reduce armed forces to a type like Rakhkhi Bahini.

Partly proves the point doesn't it?

Please don't bring the example of Ulsan class frigate (BNS Bangabondhu) and half squadron of Mig-29 procured during their last tenure. So far I know that frigate was completely financed by Saudi govt. and one brand new frigate like Ulsan class for a country like Bangladesh was not finalized within 2 years of their term starting from 96 (hope one known guy will shed light on this). It probably started no less than 4-8 years ago meaning either at the end of Ershad era or during BNP term (91-95). Hasina just continued that and even had a share (later frigate corruption case) on that money donated by Saudi govt. The Mig-29 purchase was a big corruption of Hasina last term. And who knows maybe it was another decision of previous BNP govt. which they switched to Russia buying Migs like BNP govt. again stopped the Mig deal next term in 01-06 .

It's true that it was funded by the Saudis.

Equipment from other more expensive foreign sources depends primarily on financing terms or assistance from other governments (Saudi Arabia paid for the BNS Bangabandhu).

::. AMI International - Worldwide Naval Projections Report™ .::

How is the MiG-29 case related to the BNP's tenure? It had nothing to do with them. In fact, they tried to sell them off during their previous tenure.

MiGs too costly for Bangladesh to maintain
12:00 22 Jul 2002

The cost of spares and maintenance has forced the armed forces command of Bangladesh to sell the eight MiG-29s, which it purchased only three years ago.

Having previously relied on older generation Chinese-built fighters such as the Chengdu F-7 (a MiG-21 copy), Shenyang F-6 (a copy of the MiG-19) and Nanchang A-5 (its ground attack derivative), all of which were also operated by Pakistan, acquisition of the MiG-29 marked a major leap forward for the Bangladesh air force.

Decision

Prime Minister Begum Haleda Zia, quoted in the leading Bangladeshi newspaper Dainik Dinkal said: "The decision to purchase the Russian airplanes for $124 million was an incorrect financial decision."

He denied there had been any fraudulent collusion between the former Bangladeshi government and the Russian suppliers, however, which had been the subject of frequent speculation in the Bangadeshi press.

MiGs too costly for Bangladesh to maintain

Whatever the procurement was, within 90 BD did have an organized armed forces which was Zia/Ershad contribution and it was not politicized like today. There was a saying in Army during Ershad era regarding procurement that "if you need new toys, let me (Ershad) know...it'll be managed". This is why within the size of then economy our armed forces were well managed.

Of-course, it was Zia who contributed to the creation of Bangladesh Military as an organized force. Not some "people's army" as envisioned by Mujib and Col. Taher.

Ershad knew how to communicate with the officers. Not a complete duffer like Hasina.

However, you are wrong about the politicized part. It always has been about politics and power play. Otherwise, Mujib and Zia would not have been assassinated in the first place.

There is partly something called favoritism in the Bangladesh military. KZ's hubby was in the military, and a ruler. So, she always gains more trust from them.

This similarly applies to Ershad. Ershad was hardly touched back in the CTG admin. And this is only because he was in the army. And of-course, he was corrupt during his reign, but his government was effective.

The two ladies have neither efficiency or effectiveness.

If Bangladesh wants a quick and inexpensive solution, Russia is the best option for now. This is due to the fact much of air force's infrastructure, avionics, ammo, acquired training, radar systems and equipment are compatible with either Russian or Chinese ones. The very first fighters Bangladesh ever procured were Soviet MiG-21s. So, it all started from there.

Turning on to Western birds would require changes in infrastructure, avionics, and training. This process can be prohibitively expensive for a poor country like Bangladesh.

China is a limited option for now due to their inability to produce turbofan engines in large quantities for export consumers. Even Pakistan is still waiting for the J-10. It's been years since the news of PAF gaining access to them came around. So that'd have to wait.

 

[Major Shaheb]

Defense purchases are not included in the budget.

Although, BD procuring Su-30s is speculation at best for now.



Not to mention...were SAAB and Lockheed even willing to supply us the Gripen and F-16?

Although, the equipment, missiles, bombs and avionics part makes sense. Buying all that stuff from Western suppliers is very expensive.

They surely did offer. So far I know, US govt. offered General Dynamics F-16C/D Block 40/42 (of the shelf) whereas BAF were looking more into F-16C/D Block 50/52+ which they are not eager to give us. I don't know what happened to JAS-39.

 

[idune]

They surely did offer. So far I know, US govt. offered General Dynamics F-16C/D Block 40/42 (of the shelf) whereas BAF were looking more into F-16C/D Block 50/52+ which they are not eager to give us. I don't know what happened to JAS-39.

And your information based on what?

 

[Major Shaheb]

who is this mordernisation aimed at ? i mean hasina has said that she wants to make bd armed forces a deterrent force. but deterrent against whom ?

and why would the armed forces et pi$$ed off if they get weopons ? i hope that part is typo

You will never know that who is your worst enemy. You don't know if it is India (who has been playing foul game ever since you got your independence), or Myanmar (who has been you pain in the as* from the beginning), is it USA (who does not like the Muslims but pretends they do) or if it is Pakistan (who always try to give you away) or some other country. You don't know that. So, you must prepare yourselves for the worst. That is why Bangladesh is building its military, in fact that is the reason 90% of the country prepares themselves..

I mean no disrespect to anybody..

 

[Major Shaheb]

Any evidence about your claim? AL during 72-75 era had a plan to reduce armed forces to a type like Rakhkhi Bahini. Please don't bring the example of Ulsan class frigate (BNS Bangabondhu) and half squadron of Mig-29 procured during their last tenure. So far I know that frigate was completely financed by Saudi govt. and one brand new frigate like Ulsan class for a country like Bangladesh was not finalized within 2 years of their term starting from 96 (hope one known guy will shed light on this). It probably started no less than 4-8 years ago meaning either at the end of Ershad era or during BNP term (91-95). Hasina just continued that and even had a share (later frigate corruption case) on that money donated by Saudi govt. The Mig-29 purchase was a big corruption of Hasina last term. And who knows maybe it was another decision of previous BNP govt. which they switched to Russia buying Migs like BNP govt. again stopped the Mig deal next term in 01-06 .

Whatever the procurement was, within 90 BD did have an organized armed forces which was Zia/Ershad contribution and it was not politicized like today. There was a saying in Army during Ershad era regarding procurement that "if you need new toys, let me (Ershad) know...it'll be managed". This is why within the size of then economy our armed forces were well managed.

It was just Ershad contribution. During his time Bangladesh military received the most. Example:

BAF:
Fighter Aircraft: 16 F-7MB, 12 A-5C, 8 FT-6
Advanced Jet Trainer: 8 Fouga CM.170 Magister.
Transport: 3 An-32
Helicopter: 2 Bell 206, 16 Bell-212
Glider: 3 gliders

Bangladesh Army:
MBT: Type-69, Type 59
Light Tank: Type 62
APC: BTR-80, BTR-70
Artilary: Almost all

Bangladesh Navy:
Frigate: Type53H1
Missile Boat: All
Gunboat: almost all

Factory: BMTF, BOF

 

[Major Shaheb]

Look up history. It is always the AL that procures more heavy equipment compared to the BNP.



Partly proves the point doesn't it?



It's true that it was funded by the Saudis.

::. AMI International - Worldwide Naval Projections Report™ .::

How is the MiG-29 case related to the BNP's tenure? It had nothing to do with them. In fact, they tried to sell them off during their previous tenure.


MiGs too costly for Bangladesh to maintain



Of-course, it was Zia who contributed to the creation of Bangladesh Military as an organized force. Not some "people's army" as envisioned by Mujib and Col. Taher.

Ershad knew how to communicate with the officers. Not a complete duffer like Hasina.

However, you are wrong about the politicized part. It always has been about politics and power play. Otherwise, Mujib and Zia would not have been assassinated in the first place.

There is partly something called favoritism in the Bangladesh military. KZ's hubby was in the military, and a ruler. So, she always gains more trust from them.

This similarly applies to Ershad. Ershad was hardly touched back in the CTG admin. And this is only because he was in the army. And of-course, he was corrupt during his reign, but his government was effective.

The two ladies have neither efficiency or effectiveness.

If Bangladesh wants a quick and inexpensive solution, Russia is the best option for now. This is due to the fact much of air force's infrastructure, avionics, ammo, acquired training, radar systems and equipment are compatible with either Russian or Chinese ones. The very first fighters Bangladesh ever procured were Soviet MiG-21s. So, it all started from there.

Turning on to Western birds would require changes in infrastructure, avionics, and training. This process can be prohibitively expensive for a poor country like Bangladesh.

China is a limited option for now due to their inability to produce turbofan engines in large quantities for export consumers. Even Pakistan is still waiting for the J-10. It's been years since the news of PAF gaining access to them came around. So that'd have to wait.

I thot it was made by HAL (under license). May be I'm wrong..

 

[PlanetSoldier]

The plan that they planned only reached up to the initial stages plus they only mentioned they planned to include submarine but did not mention when they will join us(but if you have conflicting source feel free to post it). As far as i know, BN members did not recieve any trainings with submarines in 97/98, they were most probably visiting and inspecting them they did not recieve any formal training. Serious training only occurred recently.

BNP drew the draft, AL finalised and is currently carrying out the draft and hopefully when BNP comes into power they will carry on with the plans.
According to you, Hasina kept the 2030 plans to keep military people happy. Isnt that what zabaniya mentioned that hasina buys more military stuff than khaleda to keep the military happy. Hasina will never do anything to harm her political career and cancelling armed forces goal is downright suicidal for her carnage or no carnage.
BNP will continue with the russian weapons, too much important russian investment in our country, for example, they are helping us with our nuclear power station. BNP wont try to agitate the ruskies. Furthermore we are exploring fuel rich bay of bengal, they will have to spend more on defence to protect our assets



Try to be nuetral? You took my words out of context, distorted them and tried to pass me off as being biased to one side. This is what i wrote



Since when i tried to show burma as our main enemy? I stated the fact that big budget defence procurements are not being scorned upon by the opposition party as well as the common people after the burmese standoff in 2008 as we all realised that we were seriously under equipped.
This is a episode was a reflection of the pathetic weapons our military was using and modernisation was needed.

As for the bold part in your reply, wasnt it the jist of that whole paragraph that i wrote. We are buying frigates to grow some muscles before the verdict with india comes out, thus both the women will try to provide the weapons to the military for deterrence.

Next time please analyse what i wrote instead of replying me with just a glance of what i wrote

Next time plz you also analyze what you wrote in your several posts...I didn't only mean this post where you used the words Burmese Standoff. Didn't you reply me in a thread previously that we don't have problem on our west coast, only east coast is to be considered for our naval muscle?