(2002) Pakistan army has higher quality than India: UK ThinkTank

[SarthakGanguly]

Indian Armed forces are like Police when compared to Pakistan. Traffic police. We are absolutely harmless, ineffective and worthless. All of us. @SipahSalar

Friendly fire eh....

Gora Prai airstrike:

On 10 June 2008, 10 Pakistani paramilitary troops from the Frontier Corps and a Pakistan Army major, were killed by a US airstrike in Pakistani tribal areas, along with 8 Taliban fighters. The airstrike occurred following clashes between Taliban fighters and US troops along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Taliban fighters had fled across the border into Pakistan, and two US F-15E strike fighters and a B-1 bomber then entered Pakistani airspace and dropped about a dozen 500-pound laser-guided bombs.

Angoor Ada:

Seven US helicopter gunships and two troop-carrying Chinook helicopters landed on the Afghan side of the border, in the Afghan province of Paktika, where US troops then tried to cross the border into Pakistan. As they did so, Pakistani paramilitary soldiers at a checkpoint began firing warning shots into the air and the US troops decided not to continue forward. The firing reportedly lasted for several hours.

Kurram incident:

On 30 September 2010. U.S. helicopters entered Pakistani airspace after ground troops determined that a mortar attack by militants in Pakistan was imminent, according to the Coalition. Pakistani Frontier Corps troops manning the Mandata Kadaho border post fired warning shots, and the helicopters responded by firing two missiles that destroyed the post. Three soldiers were killed and another three wounded. Pakistan responded by closing a key NATO supply route for eleven days.

Datta Khel incident:

On May 17, 2011, a skirmish between a U.S. helicopter and Pakistani forces took place in the Datta Khel area. According to NATO, an American base along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border took direct and indirect fire from Pakistan. Two U.S. helicopters flew into the area. According to the Pakistani military, the helicopters had breached its airspace.

Salala incident:

On 26 November 2011, 28 Pakistani soldiers, including 2 officers,were killed and the remainder injured in an attack on
two Pakistani border posts in Mohmand tribal region by NATOApache helicopters, an AC-130 gunshipand fighter jets.


None of them seem to be friendly fire... Operational awareness seemed to exist in every incident.

This post defeats my purpose of staying in this forum.

 

[SecularNationalist]

We had breakfast on the outskirts of Lahore(your second largest city) and then few years later in Dhaka..when did you last capture any major Indian city?

And since then we are everyday masturbating and waving a pakistani flag in the kahmir which is integral part of bharat mata And you can do nothing about it. In 71 you created another muslim nation and now bengalis are getting breakfasts all over india and your survival is in danger .What a sore loser you are gupta

 

[Mutakalim]

World's potential future power's only these countries,rest does not much matters,chapter close.

Potential superpowers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There comes the genius from Bharat Mata

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

No one denies that you fought bravely...Pakistan wouldn't exist today if that wasn't the case..
But having to defend Lahore should not be considered a victory...It should never have come to that! How does a military that prides itself in the qualitative advantage over its enemy allow a lesser fighter to come to that point?!!

Indian punjab in danger is a BIG could've, should've, would've...
Same can be said about the offence in Lahore...the point is, it didnt happen..you putting Indian Punjab in danger or Pakistani losing Lahore...

Point is, our objective was achieved ie. Defend Kashmir...was your objective to defend Lahore?!
if your objective switched from taking Kashmir to defending Lahore, I wouldn't call it a victory...that is all!!
You can litter the story with how many aircrafts you took down, but the point remains irrelevant if you could not achieve the objective you set out towards..

Again Pak didn't start a war... Nor did Pak I bad india... If one actually reads about 65 war.. We find Pak doing a tit for tat.. Indian forces were doing the same in Ran of Kutch and Kargil sector what Pak did in IOK.. Which again was a hastily planned covert ops to start an uprising in Kashmir by sending in a few paratroopers... Which failed due to several reasons ..Majo reason not taking Kashmiri leaders into confidence...

On 6th September india invaded without any proper declaration of war .. Which was halted outside Lahore .. Barki village (a borde village less than 6-7 km from the border).

But it didn't just become defence.. Not when a quarter of indian airforce was turned into recycled tin cans and territorial gains by the opposite side aswell..and indian generals started to panic due to the fear of Pak taking Punjab (A soldier remembers- Autobio of Gen Singh)...

Your objective "to capture Lahore" failed ... And so did your myth of invinciblity.


A good balanced book you should read is "crossed swords".

 

[Mr.Nair]

There comes the genius from Bharat Mata

No no pakistan the ultimate super power, militarily economically No1.,happy.

 

[ZooZoo]

Just watch the movie " 300 " and you will understand the concept.

Or watch Battle of Longewala...

200 Vs 2000 + 100s of Tank + 100 of Armour Vehicle.. and so on..

 

[sathya]

That was a 2002 report if anything..

13 years have passed, that too a difficult period for Pakistan
In Present situation, even the quality difference cannot be bragged I think.

Pakistan is getting Chinese weapons instead of Western one.. That itself will tell you, quality edge won't be anymore

 

[ZooZoo]

This has always been the case. Even with superior conventional wars, india has struggled against Pakistan, only 71 when separated by thousands of miles of hostile territory.

US, NATO, Brits Aussies, regularly train with both us and the veggies, and according to all the ones I have talked to over the years, they are always pleasantly surprised about the quality of both our soldiers and officers.

One particular occasion was talking to a SEAL Officer, and a highly decorated SAS veteran in Oz - they had both interacted with our boys - and come to view them with high praise, independently of one another.

The SAS guy was so impressed - I quote "Brilliant bunch of fighters, put them up with tier 1 NATO soldiers - never thought a developing country could produce rifleman like that, outside NATO.

High praise indeed.

India started all War...... Pakistan won all war

 

[Peshwa]

Again Pak didn't start a war... Nor did Pak I bad india... If one actually reads about 65 war.. We find Pak doing a tit for tat.. Indian forces were doing the same in Ran of Kutch and Kargil sector what Pak did in IOK.. Which again was a hastily planned covert ops to start an uprising in Kashmir by sending in a few paratroopers... Which failed due to several reasons ..Majo reason not taking Kashmiri leaders into confidence...

On 6th September india invaded without any proper declaration of war .. Which was halted outside Lahore .. Barki village (a borde village less than 6-7 km from the border).

But it didn't just become defence.. Not when a quarter of indian airforce was turned into recycled tin cans and territorial gains by the opposite side aswell..and indian generals started to panic due to the fear of Pak taking Punjab (A soldier remembers- Autobio of Gen Singh)...

Your objective "to capture Lahore" failed ... And so did your myth of invinciblity.


A good balanced book you should read is "crossed swords".

All neutral accounts of '65 war state that operation Gibraltar was the pre-cursor to the war and it was Pakistani aggression to take Kashmir by force was repelled by India..

Below a quote from your own ally in '65..
The India-Pakistan War of 1965 - 1961–1968 - Milestones - Office of the Historian

Conflict resumed again in early 1965, when Pakistani and Indian forces clashed over disputed territory along the border between the two nations. Hostilities intensified that August when the Pakistani army attempted to take Kashmir by force. The attempt to seize the state was unsuccessful, and the second India-Pakistan War reached a stalemate.

So I would stop you right there and state that you did not meet your objective..
Given the scenario, defending Lahore is more losing face than victory...But you can feel free to spin it anyway you want...It's your right!

The only point I want to make here...
The rest of your post has been debated to death and i have no interest in digging up old bones..

 

[unbiasedopinion]

2002 news?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Friendly fire eh....

Gora Prai airstrike:

On 10 June 2008, 10 Pakistani paramilitary troops from the Frontier Corps and a Pakistan Army major, were killed by a US airstrike in Pakistani tribal areas, along with 8 Taliban fighters. The airstrike occurred following clashes between Taliban fighters and US troops along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Taliban fighters had fled across the border into Pakistan, and two US F-15E strike fighters and a B-1 bomber then entered Pakistani airspace and dropped about a dozen 500-pound laser-guided bombs.

Angoor Ada:

Seven US helicopter gunships and two troop-carrying Chinook helicopters landed on the Afghan side of the border, in the Afghan province of Paktika, where US troops then tried to cross the border into Pakistan. As they did so, Pakistani paramilitary soldiers at a checkpoint began firing warning shots into the air and the US troops decided not to continue forward. The firing reportedly lasted for several hours.

Kurram incident:

On 30 September 2010. U.S. helicopters entered Pakistani airspace after ground troops determined that a mortar attack by militants in Pakistan was imminent, according to the Coalition. Pakistani Frontier Corps troops manning the Mandata Kadaho border post fired warning shots, and the helicopters responded by firing two missiles that destroyed the post. Three soldiers were killed and another three wounded. Pakistan responded by closing a key NATO supply route for eleven days.

Datta Khel incident:

On May 17, 2011, a skirmish between a U.S. helicopter and Pakistani forces took place in the Datta Khel area. According to NATO, an American base along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border took direct and indirect fire from Pakistan. Two U.S. helicopters flew into the area. According to the Pakistani military, the helicopters had breached its airspace.

Salala incident:

On 26 November 2011, 28 Pakistani soldiers, including 2 officers,were killed and the remainder injured in an attack on
two Pakistani border posts in Mohmand tribal region by NATOApache helicopters, an AC-130 gunshipand fighter jets.


None of them seem to be friendly fire... Operational awareness seemed to exist in every incident.

Hi .. So they intentionally attacked our posts etx etc..And caused an international incident where their nation had to apologise and so on...hmmm


Did you pull these outta your behind or wikipedia ?

All neutral accounts of '65 war state that operation Gibraltar was the pre-cursor to the war and it was Pakistani aggression to take Kashmir by force was repelled by India..

Below a quote from your own ally in '65..
The India-Pakistan War of 1965 - 1961–1968 - Milestones - Office of the Historian



So I would stop you right there and state that you did not meet your objective..
Given the scenario, defending Lahore is more losing face than victory...But you can feel free to spin it anyway you want...It's your right!

The only point I want to make here...
The rest of your post has been debated to death and i have no interest in digging up old bones..

You don't take such a territory by sending a few paratroopers .. Nobody does ... So read my post again.

 

[special operation]

2002 report!!!! wow great!!! perfect time for discussing this more than a decade old report.
the efficiency of the army is determined by the battlefield performance, and not even in a single war pakistan army never out performed Indian troops. if yes Pakistanis pls educate me and other indians..
mean time indian army outperform pakistani soldiers in every war. in battle of Longewala 120 indian soldiers defeated 2,000 strong pakistan army+ 45 tanks+ more than 500 vehicles!!! so history of indo-pak war proves that india army is better than pakistan army.

 

[sathya]

I think we should open sticky thread where, the likely to be troll threads, can be posted and discussed .

 

[thrilainmanila]

the report is BS, its about today and tomorrow not yesterday, the pak army back in 2002 was shit. the average pak soldier was less equipped and less armed then the average GI in WW2.It wasn't so long ago I remember seeing pictures of our boys either fc or pak fauj wearing ww1 style battle helmets(pre 2005), it was embarrassing, there were few soldiers who had bullet proof vests.
This is a fact. the Indians were no better, today the pak soldiers are better armed and equipped but the indians have equally equipped and have more troops then us.

 

[Peshwa]

You don't take such a territory by sending a few paratroopers .. Nobody does ... So read my post again.

it is an act of war and aggression...
Clearly the para-troopers were aimed at destroying key military installations in Kashmir (and in other cases Punjab)...a basic in any armed forces handbook that an invasion by Pakistan was imminent..
The Lahore op was aimed at expanding the theatre of operation to spread thin the Pakistani attack in Kashmir...

Do tell, what according to you would be our objective at capturing Lahore? please do not tell me that you think we were trying to annex Lahore to make it Indian territory...esp. since we were the ones who brought the attention on the war to International limelight!
Do you think the US or UN would have allowed annexation of a key city of one of its closest allies of the time?

Our objective has been to defend Kashmir..period! We achieved it...
Pakistan on the other hand could not wrest Kashmir from India..instead defended Lahore..

Again, in my books I would not call it a victory...but you are free to do as you please!