2 Spanish Eurofighter down 8 F-15C at recent exercise

[SBD-3]

I disagree....typhoon's air authority is a stamped fact.....every one admits this....and yes when IAF has an air superiority role for MKI....then EF should not be the choice for MMRCA

@yashraj
if MKI is at top in everything then why dont IAF increase MKI fleet rather than going for MMRCA

 

[sancho]

I hope you guys know Typhoon will have no such luck against F-15E or SE. F-15C is legacy era and being left behind.

Not so fast, the EF of Spain also was only T2 versions, so no AESA radar yet. EF T3 vs F15E would imo turn out the same way, once EF can detect the F15E way earlier (long range AESA radar, very low RCS and not to forget by then with Meteor BVR missile) and in WVR it will remain superior too, especially if it gets more thrust and TVC like it seems.
F15 SE is a desperate try of Boeing to sell at least some upgrades like the CFTs with internal weapon bays. There is no way that the SE will have comparable RCS like F35 and imo not even like the EF. Even in clean config and missiles only in the weapon bays it will remain doubtful, because RAM coatings and radar blocker can't reduce the RCS that much, not to forget that they might not hide the engine blades.

Check this link of the F15SE and zoom in into the high resulution pics of the intake. Do you see any coverings, or ducts to hide the blades?

Video: Boeing unveils the "stealthy" F-15 Silent Eagle - The DEW Line

That exaclty is what many people forget, F22 and F35 are complete new designs with stealth in mind, F18SH, or F15SE are only redesigned older airframes with some RCS reductions. So they might use their knowledge to integrate some coatings, but they can't redesign the whole aircraft. New designed fighters like the EF, or Rafale have RCS reduction in mind too, but from the beginning, that's why they hide their engine blades as much as possible, also makes use of coatings and uses other features to reduce the RCS.

The following pics shows the air intakes of a F18SH and a Rafale, decide for yourself which is more stealthy, or will reduce detection more:

Also don't forget the size differences of Rafale, EF, to F18SH and F15SE!

Length (wiki specs):
Rafale - 15,27m
EF - 15,96m
F18SH - 18,31m
F15SE - 19,43m

Wingspan:
Rafale - 10,80m
EF - 10,95m
F18SH - 13,62m
F15SE - 13,05m

 

[nightrider_saulat]

i think eurofighter will not be having same advantages against F-16block52,F/A-18 super hornet and F-15 strike eagle

 

[jha]

this is a very old news and imo there was already a thread on the same topic ...waste of bandwidth....

 

[Penguin]

@ husnain

Manoeuvring, Su 30mki gose top.
Payload Su 30mki gose top.
Radar Su 30mki gose top
Speed Su 30mki gose top
Ground attack Su 30mki gose top.

only problem is Highter RCC(But Againg Su 30mki gose top....Lol)
But india is upgrading their Su 30mki with "Smart skin" technology.....
Any ya india is it self manufatureing Su30mki, form 2010 onwards 100% india made Su30mki will be in Indian sky..........

And If IAF find Typoon batter then su30mki "They Will Buy Atlest 126 of them"



" think this should keep you thinking on realistic lines "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Superior manouvrability is nice but means nothing if you get swathed out of the sky BVR, before you can get within dog-fighting range....

 

[Penguin]

Yes germany cancelled orders, time to spread some rumors for quick sales

If so, this is more likely an economy measure than a reflection on Eurofighter's capabilities: it's a plane to which the Germans have fully committed.

 

[Storm Force]

Penguin

The SU30 MKI with the upgraded ibris AESA will double the detection of the MKI AND may just have enough to see the Typphoon abt the same time.

Where as the current IAF MKI only carries a PESA radar its tracking range of a Typhoon class fighter may be as low as 70-80km.

Versis Typhoon can see the massive SU30MKI 5M2 at 180km

Only one winner TYPHOON.

BUT

THE SMARTSKIN upgrade will reduce RCS to under 2ms

And the aesa radar will detect Typhoon class fighter at 150km

ALL IN ALL A MUCH CLOSER AFFAIR EVEN AT BVR LEVEL

 

[yashraj]

I disagree....typhoon's air authority is a stamped fact.....every one admits this....and yes when IAF has an air superiority role for MKI....then EF should not be the choice for MMRCA

@yashraj
if MKI is at top in everything then why dont IAF increase MKI fleet rather than going for MMRCA

HASNAIN how many time i have to tell u the MAIN OBJECTIVE OF MMRCA

"To have great(AGAIN GREAT ) GROUND ATTACK And GOOD(Again GOOD) fighter................"
any ya also increase no of IAF with high quality planes...

Now Su30mki is Mainly Airsuperiority Fighter(So does Mig 29)
While Jaguar and Mirage 2000 is For Gorund attack.......

MMRCA is Going to greatly increase our capability in Ground attack and aslo going to contribute in dog fight.......

I hope now i am clear.................

 

[yashraj]

Superior manouvrability is nice but means nothing if you get swathed out of the sky BVR, before you can get within dog-fighting range....

Well If you think that Superior manouvrability is just nice then why USA try VARY HARD and implimented in F22

After "Smart Skin" and Ram coating it's going to vary hard for BVR missile to Lock on the Plane even 20 to 25km away.......
Any ya don't forget about Morden countermesur which jam Missiles sensors very easly.(Google it for source)

Superior manouvrability is really great asset of fighter for dog fight
See some good exmaple of morden fighter to have Superior manouvrability

1) Su 30mki , Mig 29 , Su 35 and 27

2) EF

3) F 22 , f-15 , f-14

 

[SBD-3]

HASNAIN how many time i have to tell u the MAIN OBJECTIVE OF MMRCA

"To have great(AGAIN GREAT ) GROUND ATTACK And GOOD(Again GOOD) fighter................"
any ya also increase no of IAF with high quality planes...

Now Su30mki is Mainly Airsuperiority Fighter(So does Mig 29)
While Jaguar and Mirage 2000 is For Gorund attack.......
MMRCA is Going to greatly increase our capability in Ground attack and aslo going to contribute in dog fight.......

I hope now i am clear.................

ok now I am qouting your own words

@ husnain

Manoeuvring, Su 30mki gose top.
Payload Su 30mki gose top.
Radar Su 30mki gose top
Speed Su 30mki gose top
Ground attack Su 30mki gose top.

would you care to elaborate?????? IAF would be stupid to go for another "great" ground attack and "good" fighter as the new fighter will not only bring additional maintainence and infrastructure costs and will increase the number of fighters in use,leading to techinical burden.....Mirag 2000 and Mig-29 are still "great" fighters as you said....why not to upgrade them like MKI?????.....the forces over the globe are converting into "specific and selective fighter" forces, look at USAF (only F-22 and F-35 for the future) Russia (SU-35-Pak-fa or at max paired with Mig-35) Germany (EF) France (Rafale and Mirages) even PAF (JF-17-FC-20-F-16) .Well boy your current post negate your previous posts.....and this time I mean qulity and logical reply.....I would like to reply only to a qulity post.....better learn something from "sancho" ( as He is the most respected and logical, atleast in my view, indian poster around here)

 

[AVIAN]

MKI, F-15 and EF are masters in their own rights, nobody can outdo any of this jets if proper planning isn't put into practice. F-15 is still a true Air Dominance fighter jet in the world and if US can then F-15 can still retain its well established advantage. F-15s development and inclusion in service was well ahead of its timeline.

 

[yashraj]

ok now I am qouting your own words


would you care to elaborate?????? IAF would be stupid to go for another "great" ground attack and "good" fighter as the new fighter will not only bring additional maintainence and infrastructure costs and will increase the number of fighters in use,leading to techinical burden.....Mirag 2000 and Mig-29 are still "great" fighters as you said....why not to upgrade them like MKI?????.....the forces over the globe are converting into "specific and selective fighter" forces, look at USAF (only F-22 and F-35 for the future) Russia (SU-35-Pak-fa or at max paired with Mig-35) Germany (EF) France (Rafale and Mirages) even PAF (JF-17-FC-20-F-16) .Well boy your current post negate your previous posts.....and this time I mean qulity and logical reply.....I would like to reply only to a qulity post.....better learn something from "sancho" ( as He is the most respected and logical, atleast in my view, indian poster around here)

Su 30mki score highter in Ground attack compair to EF you *******(u know what i mean by ******)

New MMRCA is going to replace aggeing Jaguar & Mirage 2000

So following is the picture of IAF in 2020

1) Great dog fighter Su30 Mki (With smart skin and AESA) --- 230
2) Great Ground attack (F-18 or rafail) --- 200
3) Stelth fighter(PAKFA) --- 40 to 60 (About 250 in future)
4) Multiporpouse plane ----- Tejas(Mk-1 and Mk-2) ---- 120
5) for navy Mig 29s which also good dogfighter ----------80

Any suggestion.................

I think u Mainly have problem with Su30 Mki
This type of fighter mainly use for people like our neighbour(****** Neighbour)

 

[sancho]

would you care to elaborate?????? IAF would be stupid to go for another "great" ground attack and "good" fighter as the new fighter will not only bring additional maintainence and infrastructure costs and will increase the number of fighters in use,leading to techinical burden.....Mirag 2000 and Mig-29 are still "great" fighters as you said....why not to upgrade them like MKI?????.....the forces over the globe are converting into "specific and selective fighter" forces, look at USAF (only F-22 and F-35 for the future) Russia (SU-35-Pak-fa or at max paired with Mig-35) Germany (EF) France (Rafale and Mirages) even PAF (JF-17-FC-20-F-16) .Well boy your current post negate your previous posts.....and this time I mean qulity and logical reply.....I would like to reply only to a qulity post.....better learn something from "sancho" ( as He is the most respected and logical, atleast in my view, indian poster around here)

Thanks for the compliment, but he is not completely wrong!

The MKI offers a lot range, high payload, many weapon stations and many heavy and guided weapons (KAB 500/1500, Kh 59, Kh 35, Kh 31 and soon Brahmos too) in the ground attack role and the number of unguided bombs it can carry might be unmatched by any MMRCA (28-32 bombs between 100 and 250Kg!!!).

So for heavy bombard after achieving air superiority, or heavy attacks from distance it will be very useful, but when it comes to special strikes, or SEAD, fighters like Rafale, or F18SH will be clearly superior. They will have a way lower RCS and can enter enemy airspace undetected, their EWS are maybe the best at the moment, especially for such roles and unlike the MKI, they also offer good and more accurate guided A2G weapons in the lower range (125-250Kg Paveway, JDAM, AASM bombs).

The intention of IAF might have been to have only FGFA, MCA and LCA for the future, but delays caused the MMRCA in between and if you have to buy new fighters anyway, they should be capable and offer advantages that the present fighters don't offer right?
Around 100 Mig 27 will be phased out, Mig 29 and Jags have only limited multi role capabilities and M2k is capable, but only available in a relative small number. Also these fighters will only stay in service till around 2025 and should be replaced by FGFA and MCA. That means, if IAF don't want to rely on a few M2ks and old Jags in this special roles for over a decade, MMRCA should be more capable.

 

[sancho]

1) Great dog fighter Su30 Mki (With smart skin and AESA) --- 230

Don't put too much hope on smart skin! There were only a single report of it by now and the fact that upgraded MKI will carry Brahmos at the centerline station will leave no room for internal weapon bays!
There will be RCS reductions with coatings, but the main upgrades should be, Brahmos, Bars AESA, a new engine (S117 with 3D TVC), new IRST and other avionics, maybe L-Band radar at the wings.

 

[yashraj]

Don't put too much hope on smart skin! There were only a single report of it by now and the fact that upgraded MKI will carry Brahmos at the centerline station will leave no room for internal weapon bays!
There will be RCS reductions with coatings, but the main upgrades should be, Brahmos, Bars AESA, a new engine (S117 with 3D TVC), new IRST and other avionics, maybe L-Band radar at the wings.

There are other way aroud to reduce radar signature of our Su30mki as u mentain....

Like, RAM coating, ele.countermesturment, and may be(may be smart skin)..

and yes i dont have any problem with it's payload, speed, range, and Dog fight ability.

AESA radar is going to be in upgrade list so we are going to have fighter in future and in good no.