2 '45000' tons modified Vikrant aircraft carriers?

[Hellfire]

We have 2 carriers
Not 2 CBGs

Oh sorry. I thought it was 02 x CBGs which was on maneuvers few months back. That is what I was aware of till this post. Anyways, why would someone write this then?

Modi's Indian Ocean Visit: 2 Aircraft Carriers, 7 Warships To Keep Vigil

I agree that 01 x CBG as a standing orbat but the additional CBG can be mustered with 02 x CBG with todays capabilities, that was my submission

 

[MilSpec]

@PARIKRAMA let me get this straight:
One Vikrant class in construction and 2 more follow on's - 3- 45K ton carriers,
One Vishal class confirmed Nuke carrier, plus one follow on - 2 - 65k+ Nuke Prop Carriers
Plus one Vikramaditya - 1- Gorky

that puts total 6 - 1 IAC1 + 2IAC M + 2 IAC2 + 1Gorky, This just got interesting.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA let me get this straight:
One Vikrant class in construction and 2 more follow on's - 3- 45K ton carriers,
One Vishal class confirmed Nuke carrier, plus one follow on - 2 - 65k+ Nuke Prop Carriers
Plus one Vikramaditya - 1- Gorky

that puts total 6 - 1 IAC1 + 2IAC M + 2 IAC2 + 1Gorky, This just got interesting.

Yes you are correct with minor adjustment.. The Vikramaditya would be retired by the time the last ACC comes in.. so all in all we will maintain 5 ACCs forming 5 CBGs

 

[illusion8]

Yes you are correct with minor adjustment.. The Vikramaditya would be retired by the time the last ACC comes in.. so all in all we will maintain 5 ACCs forming 5 CBGs

Guys! If one attends a defense seminar one will realise overtly the following. .

1. India does not have a security threat.

2. The only focus is "make in India" and improving defense production.

3. When it comes to the navy..The only focus is to keep churning out ships and to keep engaging and upgrading all psu and private shipyards.

4. Believe it or not - India has a very comfortable relation with the chinese and the Pakistanis are only limited to the terrorist threat.

5. The focus being "make in India"..The second focus is a thriving defense manufacturing base...so, don't be surprised if the ship manufacturing industry keeps churning out more replicas of the ACC or the destroyers, frigates, nuke subs, or scorpenes.

6. The only focus is economy based defense manufacturing and capability enhancement.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Adding to some more

The 5 CBGs (6 including Gorky) was also tweeted by S Jha back in December beginning, right at the time when Scorpene follow on possible orders were leaked to media.

My source says this is to ensure that the shipyard constructing the ships which has learned the expensive methodology + SAIL who has invested a lot for HY steel for the Carriers and numerous other MSME and MIC as a whole benefit with continuous churning of ships with the new one in all probability replacing the ageing one at an average production of 1 carrier every 7 years and induction in 8-9 years post trials.

Here is his tweet back from December.. Don know if its posted here or not..

https://twitter.com/x/status/672337845890121728

and this is what IN plan uptill 2030 asked indigenous industry help for STOBAR carriers (IAC1). Notice the word class of Ships (Plural)

and here is another source based info
IN plans to have a total of 600+ aircraft by 2040 in a ambitious 25 year aircraft plan for ship based and shore based. These planes comprise of jets and turbo prob. helos are completely different.

Now that number is not a mini airforce its almost 60-70% of the AF strength by 2040 ...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

5 carriers is pipe dream before 2050.
5 carriers would imply an aircraft strength 30% of the IAF - at a time when IAF has trouble getting its squadron strength to minimum numbers and shortened rafale to only 36 and baulking on pak fa due to cost,plus an enormous number of support and escort vessels.
Add to that highly costly nuclear subs and ssns,which we plan on building in large numbers.Navy simply doesn't have that budget.It would imply navy gets more budget than airforce and maybe even army.Navy doesn't have funds for huge numbers of surface escorts,a whole undersea nuclear fleet AND a mini-airforce with the 2nd largest carrier force in the world at the same time.

3 carriers max.Vishal won't be coming before 2025 at least.Too many people seeing dreams here,time to come down to reality.IN is top dog in IOR even now and will remain so with 3 carriers which are more than sufficient to retain our supremacy in this region and defeat any chinese intrusion near malacca.Focus is now on undersea nuclear subs.

 

[Baybars Han]

What is this aircraft carrier love of India? By getting aircraft carriers you don't become a super power. Even when India has two aircraft carrier what can that do? What is it's aim? It can't invade any medium strength country even if both aircraft carriers was in service now. India has two main enemies and both are right next to it, China and Pakistan.

Let's assume India has two aircraft carriers active right now and both have 50 aircraft each. Can India do much to a country like egypt for example which has a very weak navy atm. I doubt it because egypt airforce will overwhelm those 100 aircraft not to mention missiles etc that can be used.

 

[AMCA]

What is this aircraft carrier love of India? By getting aircraft carriers you don't become a super power. Even when India has two aircraft carrier what can that do? What is it's aim? It can't invade any medium strength country even if both aircraft carriers was in service now. India has two main enemies and both are right next to it, China and Pakistan.

Let's assume India has two aircraft carriers active right now and both have 50 aircraft each. Can India do much to a country like egypt for example which has a very weak navy atm. I doubt it because egypt airforce will overwhelm those 100 aircraft not to mention missiles etc that can be used.

India has a vast coastline and to defend it, we need a good offensive capability. We need to take the war to the enemy's shore should somebody dare to attack us and to do that, we need to strengthen our navy.

 

[thesolar65]

I hope DM Parrikar is reading the discussions here!!

 

[Blue Marlin]

I hope DM Parrikar is reading the discussions here!!

he is already is, in fact i wont be suprised if he's a member

 

[Ankit Kumar]

What is this aircraft carrier love of India? By getting aircraft carriers you don't become a super power. EvEen India has two aircraft carrier what can that do? What is it's aim? It can't invade any medium strength country even if both aircraft carriers was in service now. India has two main enemies and both are right next to it, China and Pakistan.

Let's assume India has two aircraft carriers active right now and both have 50 aircraft each. Can India do much to a country like egypt for example which has a very weak navy atm. I doubt it because egypt airforce will overwhelm those 100 aircraft not to mention missiles etc that can be used.

The present Aircraft Carriers are not for offences. It just ensures that no ONE looks up with a bad intention towards us in the Indian Ocean Region.

And for Egypt sized nation.... I think we too have ICBMs, no need to send ACs there. No nukes. Just missiles at Dams and power stations.

 

[surya kiran]

What is this aircraft carrier love of India? By getting aircraft carriers you don't become a super power. Even when India has two aircraft carrier what can that do? What is it's aim? It can't invade any medium strength country even if both aircraft carriers was in service now. India has two main enemies and both are right next to it, China and Pakistan.

Let's assume India has two aircraft carriers active right now and both have 50 aircraft each. Can India do much to a country like egypt for example which has a very weak navy atm. I doubt it because egypt airforce will overwhelm those 100 aircraft not to mention missiles etc that can be used.

I think you have misunderstood Indian doctrine. Our objective is to ensure our dominance in any area that we define as our area of interest/operations. The Indian operational doctrine sees a requirement to thwart any attempt to challenge us in the IOR region. This build up includes Kolkota class destroyers, Shivalik class guided missile frigates, Talwar class frigates, Kamorta class ASW corvettes, Kalvari class SSKs, Arihant class SSBN and many more. The aircraft carrier is just a small part of the overall expansion.

Our aim is to be the dominant power in the IOR over the next 2 decades. This does not mean we threaten countries. It means we do not let any country threaten, what we feel is important to us.

The IN build up is for this reason. The IAF squadron numbers will go up. The Rafale line in India is a given. The Indian Army is also being modernised. From a large army we are moving to be a large, mobile and technologically superior army.

All this for one reason. Ensure, no country, will challenge us in the IOR. This will be achieved not only through military might, but also by economic and diplomatic policies.

 

[Stag112]

What is this aircraft carrier love of India? By getting aircraft carriers you don't become a super power. Even when India has two aircraft carrier what can that do? What is it's aim? It can't invade any medium strength country even if both aircraft carriers was in service now. India has two main enemies and both are right next to it, China and Pakistan.

Let's assume India has two aircraft carriers active right now and both have 50 aircraft each. Can India do much to a country like egypt for example which has a very weak navy atm. I doubt it because egypt airforce will overwhelm those 100 aircraft not to mention missiles etc that can be used.

Please do not look at aircraft carriers in isolation. The IDEA is to strengthen our navy, for this we think aircraft carriers can play an important role.

How many of these carriers, what exact role will they play, all this is up for discussion and that is what we are trying to discus here too.

Nobody here thinks aircraft carriers will make us a superpower. That seems to be your bias talking.

And your example of Egypt was hilarious. It is clear to me you have a bias against Indians in general. So no logical debate is possible with you.

 

[MilSpec]

Yes you are correct with minor adjustment.. The Vikramaditya would be retired by the time the last ACC comes in.. so all in all we will maintain 5 ACCs forming 5 CBGs

Gorky stays afloat for another 35yrs. - I'll bet the best bottle of scotch.

5 carriers is pipe dream before 2050.
5 carriers would imply an aircraft strength 30% of the IAF - at a time when IAF has trouble getting its squadron strength to minimum numbers and shortened rafale to only 36 and baulking on pak fa due to cost,plus an enormous number of support and escort vessels.
Add to that highly costly nuclear subs and ssns,which we plan on building in large numbers.Navy simply doesn't have that budget.It would imply navy gets more budget than airforce and maybe even army.Navy doesn't have funds for huge numbers of surface escorts,a whole undersea nuclear fleet AND a mini-airforce with the 2nd largest carrier force in the world at the same time.

3 carriers max.Vishal won't be coming before 2025 at least.Too many people seeing dreams here,time to come down to reality.IN is top dog in IOR even now and will remain so with 3 carriers which are more than sufficient to retain our supremacy in this region and defeat any chinese intrusion near malacca.Focus is now on undersea nuclear subs.

I wouldn't mind seeing a 40% or more of IAF in IN Naval fleet, one thing is for sure they will use there assets much more effectively than IAF. IACII should see commissioning around 2035 is

 

[Baybars Han]

Please do not look at aircraft carriers in isolation. The IDEA is to strengthen our navy, for this we think aircraft carriers can play an important role.

How many of these carriers, what exact role will they play, all this is up for discussion and that is what we are trying to discus here too.

Nobody here thinks aircraft carriers will make us a superpower. That seems to be your bias talking.

And your example of Egypt was hilarious. It is clear to me you have a bias against Indians in general. So no logical debate is possible with you.

No I don't have a bias. I was talking logically. Aircraft carriers main aim is to be able to project power outside your borders. If India's aim is to be a powerful country in its nearby region you already have su-30 which I believe has quite some range. Aircraft carriers are for examples when UK wants to attack Argentina. If UK wanted to attack France or Netherlands let's say it wouldn't really need an AC, as an airbase in the south of England and a plane can easily go bomb the position, refuel if needed and come back.

Why was my Egypt example hilarious. I choose egypt specifically. Reason being it's not very close to India thus a AC is a great option to use in that instance, it has a weak navy but a decent airforce.

My point was currently India is stronger than Pakistan but weaker than China. In that case China can possible threaten India in the Indian ocean in the near future right? And that isn't too far from India borders? Would China feel more threatened away from its borders with Indias AC or let's say if India had much more advanced diesel AIP submarines and a combined stronger airforce etc. What I'm trying to say is India doesn't have a 2000trillion economy. Why spend so much on AC when it wouldn't be so useful, when that money can be spent on other things that will be more appropriate for India defence needs. More submarines, more aircraft etc. That's my opinion.

Oops. Indian oceon is massive but my case still stands. I don't believe India has many interests in the Indian oceon to protect. Does it have like 20 islands thst need protecting? No